The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Curios and Relics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 29, 2009, 06:21 PM   #1
Wrothgar
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 28, 2009
Location: Colorado
Posts: 778
Remington Enfields?

Just what are these things? They're Enfields (British), but Remington? Who used these?
Wrothgar is offline  
Old September 29, 2009, 07:24 PM   #2
Pahoo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Location: IOWA
Posts: 5,271
1917 Enfields, WW-I standard US GI issue. Made by:

Winchester; Most desireable
Remington; Next
Eddystone; Least desireable

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1917_Enfield_rifle



Be Safe !!!

Last edited by Pahoo; September 29, 2009 at 07:30 PM.
Pahoo is offline  
Old September 29, 2009, 07:25 PM   #3
RJay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,599
" What are these things" You need to get out more.
Those are " US Rifle, 30 caliber, Model of 1917", Primary US Rifle of the US Expediency Force in WWI { more Model 17's used than 03 Springfield's }, they are not P17's, no such animal. Long story made very short. British wanted a new rifle and cartridge to replace the old Lee Enfield 303. It was called the Pattern 14. WWI starts and the British realised that they better stick with the Lee Enfield. The US realising that they would need more rifles, rechambed it to 30-06 { 30 Caliber} and three firms built it, Remington UMC, Remington Arms Co, ( Eddystone ) and Winchester. As stated, more Models 1917's were used than the 03 Springfield. Because there was a Pattern 14, some people mistakenly called it the P { for Pattern } 17. Again, no such animal. This is a very short version of a very long story and a lot has been left out , but it does answer your question, "What are those?".
RJay is offline  
Old September 29, 2009, 07:33 PM   #4
finfanatic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 17, 2008
Posts: 133
Lots of Doughboys

Lots of Doughboys used them.

During WWI, they could not make enough 1903 SPringfields fast enough, so somebody came up with the bright idea of converting the machines Remington was using to make P15 Enfields in .303 for the British, to .30-06 and turn out a boatload of 1917 "Enfields" for the US Govt.

Remington, Eddystone (a factory in PA Remington purchased), and Winchester made the 1917 rifles, and I think I read there were more of them made than Springfield's during WWI.

I got my Winchester from CMP. It was labeled rack grade but this rifle is beautiful. And shoots like a dream. For $400 I think I got a tremendous bargain.







And no worry about an "Enfield" M1917 being a low-numbered bad heat treatment kabloom rifle.

Oh, I almost forgot. Supposedly the 1917 was the rifle Sgt. Alvin York used in his medal of honor heroics, though you can find those that will dispute that.

Last edited by finfanatic; September 29, 2009 at 07:37 PM. Reason: Added the Sgt. York bit
finfanatic is offline  
Old September 29, 2009, 09:30 PM   #5
James K
Staff
 
Join Date: March 17, 1999
Posts: 18,647
The design originated at the Royal Small Arms Factory, Enfield Lock, as the Pattern 1913 in .276 Enfield, a fat cartridge not to be confused with the U.S. .276 Pedersen. The P.13 held only five rounds, but the large diameter cartridge (base diameter .528") required a large magazine, resulting in the "pregnant" look of the P.13 and its successors.

With the onset of war, the British gave up the idea of a caliber change and modified the rifle to take the standard .303 British and the standard Lee-Enfield clips. The rifle was then called the Pattern 1914 or P.14. Since all the English arms factories were turning out Lee-Enfield (SMLE) rifles, the British contracted with Remington and Winchester to produce the P.14 in the U.S. (Eddystone was operated by Remington.)

As those contracts were winding down, the U.S. entered the war. Knowing of the vast rifle production facilities involved in making the P.14, and also knowing that the two American government rifle factories, Springfield Armory and Rock Island Arsenal, could never make enough Model 1903 rifles for the army that would be needed, the U.S. Army contracted the makers of the P.14 to modify the rifle to use the U.S. .30-'06 cartridge and the M1903 clips. The modified rifle became the U.S. Rifle, Model of 1917.

American soldiers universally called the Model of 1917 the "Enfield" because of its British origin, and to distinguish it from the Model 1903, always called "the Springfield."

Jim
__________________
Jim K
James K is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 03:35 AM   #6
gyvel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 30, 2009
Location: Northern AZ
Posts: 4,200
Roughly 1,500,000 or so U.S. M1917 "Enfields" were made during WWI, as opposed to roughly 900,000 Springfields.
gyvel is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 01:52 PM   #7
RJay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,599
Now Wrothar, with all this good information, don't you fell just a little foolish, not being able to identify a U S Main battle rifle? Just joking, the Enfield thing must have confused you.
RJay is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 02:48 PM   #8
Pahoo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 16, 2006
Location: IOWA
Posts: 5,271
Now RJay, don't you fell just a little foolish, talking down to folks that don't know all there is to know about a U S Main battle rifle? Just joking



Be Safe !!!
Pahoo is offline  
Old September 30, 2009, 04:54 PM   #9
RJay
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 2, 2005
Location: Arizona
Posts: 1,599
No, not in this case, The poster knows how to use a computer, he may not have a bookcase of references but he could have let his finger do the walking. A question with a very easy answers. So a little chastising is in order, It will make him a better researcher and much more knowledgeable. Besides I wasn't talking down to him, I was just giving him a little prod.
RJay is offline  
Old October 1, 2009, 08:01 PM   #10
DT Guy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 4, 2001
Posts: 652
You mean the OP should have found a gun forum, asked a civil question and hoped some expert enthusiasts could have given more informed answers than wikipedia or ask.com?

Oh, wait......



Larry
__________________
He who fights and runs away had better run pretty damn fast.

Government, Anarchy and Chaos
DT Guy is offline  
Old October 5, 2009, 02:06 PM   #11
MGMorden
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 3, 2006
Posts: 113
DTGuy: Also, it's kinda funny, but half the time when I do Google something, I'll pull up a forum post from long in the past (that being anything more than 6 months in computer time ) where I get my answer, along with some post telling the person who asked the question that they should have Googled it first. If that person hadn't asked the question then when *I* Googled it there would have been no answer to pop up. All that stuff Google indexes has to come from somewhere .

Never be afraid to ask a question. The response you get might answer many other people as they find the page much later .
MGMorden is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08380 seconds with 7 queries