The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 26, 2009, 02:51 AM   #1
kompulsive
Member
 
Join Date: August 29, 2009
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 49
Is it right to call a WASR-10 an AK-47?

Is it wrong of me to be rubbed the wrong way when someone advertises a WASR-10 as an AK-47? Is it not a clone, that in many instances I've heard of, can range from "decent" to "dangerously sub-par" compared to a genuine AK-47? Also, by genuine, I don't consider full-auto capability to be a requirement.

Where should the line be drawn? I just feel as though a great number of people are being mislead by these kinds advertisements. I see this as a huge marketing ploy, and dare I say, scam. I am certainly no expert on the subject and that is why I am asking. It just doesn't seem right to me. Opinions please.
__________________
"Idleness is the holiday of fools."
kompulsive is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 03:37 AM   #2
kompulsive
Member
 
Join Date: August 29, 2009
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 49
I suppose this is a good start to answering that question...

http://www.ak-47.us/Article_Detail.p...tent1185132532
__________________
"Idleness is the holiday of fools."
kompulsive is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 04:50 AM   #3
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 17,951
The article in the link compares an Bulgarian semi-auto (modified SA-93?) to the WASR-10 Rumanian rifle. Neither one is particularly representative of a true "AK-47" though for different reasons...
__________________
Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 06:00 AM   #4
kompulsive
Member
 
Join Date: August 29, 2009
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 49
John, can you please enlighten me? That's really what I'm trying to get at here. My uncle owns 30+ old AKs and variants but he's out in BFE and drinks like a fish. Hell, I do too, but I know how to use the internet and have a phone. So I can't exactly call and ask him. It's more of a....drive 30 miles and hope he is conscious kind of a deal.
__________________
"Idleness is the holiday of fools."
kompulsive is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 06:41 AM   #5
AK103K
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 1, 2001
Location: PA -- In the shadow of the Shade
Posts: 7,603
I believe they are actually considered "AKM's", as are most of the stamped AK's in 7.62 in the SAR, WASR, etc class. The AK47'S were the initial guns with the milled receivers.

The 5.45x39's would be the AK74's, and the (restored) Saiga's would be in the AK 100 series.
__________________
“The enemy is anybody who's going to get you killed, no matter which side he is on.”
― Joseph Heller, Catch-22

Zeitgeist - The Movie
AK103K is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 06:42 AM   #6
BryanP
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 2004
Location: Smyrna, TN
Posts: 240
Considering that the vast majority of "AK-47" rifles in the US are semi-automatic (and therefore not an AK-47 any more than an AR-15 is an M16), I guess not.

But then again, most of what's called an AK-47 would also more properly be called an AKM. But whatever.
BryanP is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 08:41 AM   #7
Shane Tuttle
Staff
 
Join Date: November 28, 2005
Location: Blue Grass, IA
Posts: 8,507
I'm sure technically speaking you're correct. It isn't an AK-47. Following your logic, nobody is calling an AR-15 an M-16 so why call a WASR-10 an AK-47? Makes sense to me on that level.

On the flip side, everybody and their dog calls 1911 variants 1911s even though most of them barely even resemble an original.

I think it all boils down to a combination of using the same or close to the same platform and what the general public choses to use as a catch phrase. The trend in the latter seems to follow what's the easiest, quickest, coolest, and laziest way to make a point across. I mean, what's the best phrase while discussing what gun you have?
__________________
If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language.

Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting
Shane Tuttle is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 09:18 AM   #8
kompulsive
Member
 
Join Date: August 29, 2009
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 49
Thank you Tuttle.

With that said, I think we've leveled here. You certainly put into words what I was trying to say. Selling pistols that are modeled after the 1911 doesn't bother me, because they don't claim to be the original. That's really what is ticking me off. It is as simple as advertising "X" and selling "Y". Keep in mind, this has nothing to do with whether or not "Y" is a quality product.
__________________
"Idleness is the holiday of fools."
kompulsive is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 09:55 AM   #9
austinjking
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 7, 2009
Location: MCAS Beaufort, SC... for now
Posts: 403
I generally refer to my WASR 10 as an AK. Almost any given person knows what an AK looks like and to say you have one, they know what you are talking about. However, a WASR 10 could be anything to somebody who isn't familiar with guns in general. It saves me breath not having to explain. Same goes for my M1A as an M14.
__________________
Death smiles at everyone- Marines smile back
IYAOYAS!
Ruger 10/22 Springfield M1A Springfield XD Century Arms WASR-10 American Tactical GSG-5 Colt 1903 Remington 700SPS Tactical Glock 19 Gen 4
austinjking is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 10:23 AM   #10
srt 10 jimbo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 10, 2008
Location: Fort Lauderdale
Posts: 955
I got a Mak 90, except for the thumbhole stock, looks pretty much like an AK To me.
srt 10 jimbo is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 12:07 PM   #11
Scorch
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 13, 2006
Location: Washington state
Posts: 11,340
From a technical standpoint, AK47 rifles are full auto, milled receiver, Soviet military rifles. So calling a WASR-10 an AK47 is hardly correct, no more than calling a lowered Honda Accord a race car. But calling it an AK would be close to correct, I suppose, it is a Kalashnikov design, even though it is not full auto. As Tuttle8 pointed out, nobody who knows anything about firearms calls an AR-15 an M16, so why would you call a WASR-10 an AK47?
__________________
Never try to educate someone who resists knowledge at all costs.
But what do I know?
Summit Arms Services
Taylor Machine
Scorch is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 12:18 PM   #12
a7mmnut
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2009
Location: NC Foothills
Posts: 1,150
How 'bout an "AKS" for the gun nerds? I don't know how you would lump up the AKM/AMD select fires, MAK 90, NHM 90 & 91, SLR/SAR's, Galils, CZ's, and on and on...........

They're all just AK's to me. Call me stupid. -7-
a7mmnut is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 02:42 PM   #13
BobbyT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2009
Posts: 266
How bout this.

If you want just Russian-spec fully stock originals, say AK-47.
But if it's an AK-style rifle with any number of modifications, "AK" works fine for me.

Ditto for a fully mil-spec M16 or completely original AR-15.
An AR receiver with any stock, barrel, or other attachment does just fine being called an "AR".

Ditto for a 100% original M1911 or M1911A1.
I'm going to call every Colt, Kimber, RIA, Sistema, and custom race gun a "1911" and not feel a bit guilty about it.
BobbyT is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 02:52 PM   #14
RNB65
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2006
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 167
I don't recall Mikhail Kalashnikov designing a semi-auto rifle. If it doesn't shoot full-auto it's not an AK anything. It's just an AK-47 lookalike.
__________________
THR refugee.
RNB65 is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 03:17 PM   #15
Shane Tuttle
Staff
 
Join Date: November 28, 2005
Location: Blue Grass, IA
Posts: 8,507
Quote:
I don't recall Mikhail Kalashnikov designing a semi-auto rifle. If it doesn't shoot full-auto it's not an AK anything. It's just an AK-47 lookalike.
I think you're missing the point. Being semi-auto is only one difference. Most everything else is basically the same.

Super Beetles have a different front end as well as other differences from Erwin Komenda's design, but they're still called a Beetle no less...
__________________
If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language.

Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting
Shane Tuttle is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 03:27 PM   #16
RNB65
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2006
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 167
Quote:
I think you're missing the point. Being semi-auto is only one difference. Most everything else is basically the same.
Semi-auto or FA is about as big a diff as you could possible have. I don't refer to my AR's as M16's mainly because they're missing that oh-so-satisfying third option on the selector switch. AK-like is the closest I'll come to acknowledging any semi-auto as an AK.
__________________
THR refugee.
RNB65 is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 04:00 PM   #17
brian45auto
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2009
Location: eastern pa
Posts: 499
so when you buy an ak47 parts kit and use almost every single part in it to build a semi auto rifle, what have you just made?

and i hate to tell you, but the m16 started out as the armalite model 15(read ar-15).....which was select fire.
in addition, colt owns the "ar15" and "ar-15" designation copy rights in the semi auto world.
so anything other than a COLT ar15, is a clone.

with all of that said, a romanian wasr built from akm parts is way closer to being an ak47. than a bushmaster, dpms or armalite ar15* is to actually being an ar15, they are straight up copies.




*because like the modern springfield armory, it's not the same company as what they are implying it is.
__________________
it's only metal, we can out think it.....

Last edited by brian45auto; September 26, 2009 at 04:09 PM.
brian45auto is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 04:23 PM   #18
Shane Tuttle
Staff
 
Join Date: November 28, 2005
Location: Blue Grass, IA
Posts: 8,507
If you think the biggest difference in a rifle is due to the number of bullets leaving the barrel per squeeze of the trigger, I see it as dismissing everything else in the actual design and reasoning why the AK is an AK.

In other words, do you really think Mikhail Kalashnikov's design was famous because it was an automatic? If you think so, I'd recommend reading more about the AK.
__________________
If it were up to me, the word "got" would be deleted from the English language.

Posting and YOU: http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/posting
Shane Tuttle is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 05:09 PM   #19
a7mmnut
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2009
Location: NC Foothills
Posts: 1,150
Once you see the little difference in the hammer and trigger groups, temptation sets in..................

-7-
a7mmnut is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 05:13 PM   #20
Chui
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 28, 2004
Posts: 1,657
AKM or AKS would put you closer to the truth of the matter.
__________________
"Necessity is the plea of every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants, it is the creed of slaves." ~ William Pitt, 1783
Chui is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 08:44 PM   #21
JohnKSa
Staff
 
Join Date: February 12, 2001
Location: DFW Area
Posts: 17,951
Quote:
John, can you please enlighten me? That's really what I'm trying to get at here.
I guess there's room for a lot of discussion and disagreement, but the first thing to decide is what an AK-47 is.

In my book the original AK-47 was a stamped receiver, select fire rifle that took double-column magazines, had a double-hook trigger and accepted a bayonet. It also had a rather distinctive muzzle brake attachment.
  • Neither one of the rifles under discussion will take bayonets like the AK does.
  • Neither one has an AK-47 muzzle attachment.
  • The WASR-10 was originally designed for a single stack 10 round magazine instead of the AK mags.
  • The Bulgarian is a milled receiver while the AK was designed to have a stamped receiver (the Russians switched to milled after problems with the stamped receivers and then went back to stamped receivers in 1959 and redesignated the rifle the AKM after they worked the problems out).
  • The WASR-10 uses a single hook trigger unlike the original AK double hook trigger.
__________________
Did you know that there is a TEXAS State Rifle Association?
JohnKSa is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 08:54 PM   #22
Sixer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 16, 2008
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1,889
Quote:
Is it right to call a WASR-10 an AK-47?
To the OP..... YES, just don't call it an Assault Rifle
__________________
Hopp Custom Leather <------ click for HOLSTER awesomeness!!

-There is no theory of evolution... Just a list of creatures Chuck Norris has allowed to live.
Sixer is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 08:59 PM   #23
troy_mclure
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 17, 2008
Location: gulf of mexico
Posts: 2,716
saw at a gunshow today a guy selling sks's as SK-47's @ $400.
__________________
There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change. It is to use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wound, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time."
troy_mclure is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 09:15 PM   #24
B. Lahey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,829
I just call them all "Kalashnikovs" in general conversation.

If I'm talking to a fellow gun-nerd I may be more specific, but as a general term it works.
__________________
"A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards."
-George Orwell
B. Lahey is offline  
Old September 26, 2009, 09:26 PM   #25
7jinxed7
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 3, 2009
Location: no where
Posts: 350
I have a SAR-3. Every time I refer to my rifle as a SAR-3 peoples response is always "A What?"An AK variant."Oh."So somtimes it's just easier to call them all AK's.Are they a true AK?No.I find that Ak type rifles are the most confusing.Their are so many countries that made them in different types and variations and calibers.It just makes you want to say the hell with it.
7jinxed7 is offline  
Reply

Tags
ak-47 , scam , wasr-10

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:49 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2013 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.11644 seconds with 7 queries