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Old February 20, 2000, 10:59 AM   #1
Irfan
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I just want to hear your opinion. Which one of these two pistols (Beretta 92FS and CZ 75B) is more durable and reliable?
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Old February 20, 2000, 01:04 PM   #2
Gino
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I have both pistols and I really like both of them. They are both very reliable and plenty accurate. The couple of differences:

1) The Beretta have an aluminum alloy frame compared to the CZ's all steel frame. This means that the CZ will prob outlive the Beretta, HOWEVER, the 92FS will prob outlast most of its owners! Unless you are going to shoot more than 40,000 rounds, this shouldn't be a big consideration.

2) If something should go wrong with the pistols (very unlikely), there are more Beretta gunsmiths around, and a whole lot more spare parts for them. HOWEVER, both these pistols are known for their great reliability, so this isn't that big of a consideration for the average user.

3) The Beretta has a pretty fat grip. People with small hands may not be as comfortable with it. HOWEVER, the CZ has a VERRRY LOOONG trigger pull in double action, so I don't consider either gun very well suited for small handed people.

4) The CZ can be used cocked-and-locked. The Beretta cannot, HOWEVER the Beretta has a better double action pull length, so this might not be very important.

5) The CZ is much cheaper. If you look around at enough gun shows, you should be able to get a NIB CZ 75B for under $350. HOWEVER, the Beretta will have a higher resale value in the future.

So basically, IMHO, these two guns are very comparable. You can't go wrong with either! My advice is to rent both and see which fits YOUR hand better.


PS If you use the search function of this site you will find a BUNCH of posts on this topic.
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Old February 20, 2000, 11:29 PM   #3
Gremlin
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I've rented Berettas and shot them at the range and I own a CZ-75 so I guess I'm qualified to offer an opinion. My experience is limited to the 9mm versions of both guns.

The slide/cocking action on the Beretta is much more precise "feeling" than the CZ--everything seems tighter when loading a round into the chamber. The Beretta's double action trigger is shorter and crisper than the CZ. The magazine locks more firmly into place with the Beretta.

Having said all that, gimme the CZ anyday. I tend to shoot Single Action with the first shot anyway so the D/A trigger's no big deal. My particular CZ-75B is much more accurate than either of the Beretta's I've rented--2" groups at 10 yards are pretty common place and I've never considered myself that good of a shot. It's the gun and not the shooter in this case.

I find that I am able to re-acquire the target much more quickly with the CZ; both guns are of comparable weight but the recoil with both 9mm FMJ's and Federal Hydra-shoks feels to be less substantial with the CZ. I can squeeze of 5 'good shots' with the CZ quicker than I can do it with the Beretta.

The grip on the CZ is much more ergonomic than the Beretta--it just feels "right" in my hand. Both guns use a three dot sight, but I believe the distance between the sights on the CZ is longer and therefore lends itself to better accuracy.

I was able to buy the CZ-75B in black polymer new in the box with 2 fifteen round factory hi-caps for $375. The least expensive new Beretta I could find was a DAO 40cal for $475 with a single 10 round mag. I saved the money, got the caliber I wanted (9's tend to be a lot cheaper to buy ammo for than 40's; plus I already had a 40cal semi-auto in my collection), got two hi-caps, and in my opinion got the better gun for a hundred bucks less.

Not a hard decision for me to make...

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Old February 21, 2000, 02:18 PM   #4
Russell92
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no gun built is more reliable than my beretta 92FS: 100% reliability in over 2000 rounds. i love this gun and it shoots great. they are supposed to last at least to around 40-50 thousand rounds and they very well could go more.

with hot NATO rounds the 92FS will last about:
frame: 70,000 rounds
slide: 50,000 rounds
locking block: 25,000 rounds
barrel: 10,000 rounds

i think thats right but maybe it was more. i don't remeber if the barrel is really that little it's probably more. besides you can shoot twice as much regular target ammo thru it sinces its weaker than NATO ammo.
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Old February 21, 2000, 03:16 PM   #5
Walt Sherrill
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I doubt that you'll find either being especially poor with regard to durability or reliability.

The Beretta (I had an Italian-made 96, .40 caliber, but exactly the same size as the 9mm) is a much larger, bulkier weapon. Its more difficult to conceal.

Both are good quality.

Both can be accurate, but the CZ tends -- if the one's (of both varieties) I've seen are any indication -- tend to be more accurate, out of the box. And I like the option of "cocked and locked" carry, but I've found first shots with the DA trigger is quite smooth.

As another poster here notes, the CZ is a much more ergonomic design.
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Old February 21, 2000, 03:25 PM   #6
BrokenArrow
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In military test with mil-spec ammo (same as SAAMI +P) they average:

frame: 35,732
slide: 75,250 (55K-95K)
blocks: 19,500 (17-22K)

Barrels are chrome-lined and will go a lot longer than 10K; at least 50K.

IIRC, 12 pistols fired over 168,000 rounds with a mean rounds between failure of over 30,000 rounds.

CZs are probably tougher, but I've never seen the results of any extensive mil-spec T&E for durability or reliability.

There are CZs that decock, and Berettas that cock and lock too BTW. Hicap mags are easy to find for either one. I like em both a lot.

Get the one that feels better to you, or the one that shoots better if you can try both.
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Old February 22, 2000, 03:17 PM   #7
TVN
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I have a beretta and often teach on a CZ and I would go with the cz.They are both very reliable but the CZ seems to be more accurate and more ergonomic.Also if you plan to carry the cz is a lot slimmer.In this country a new cz costs half of what a new beretta will
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Old February 22, 2000, 05:07 PM   #8
Skorzeny
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Yes, indeed there are Beretta 92's with cocked & locked capability, but they are either very old variants or must be specially ordered from Italy (Stock and Combat models). They are also quite costly.

On the other hand, CZ-75BD (decocker-only) are easier to get and much less expensive than the 92 Stock or Combat.

All in all, I'd go with the CZ-75/85 over the Beretta (I have both, but am considering selling the Beretta, which is a Centurion model).

Skorzeny

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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu

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Old February 22, 2000, 06:46 PM   #9
ddt4free
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I have been a huge fan of the cz for quite a while......but, My new cz75b has had a two falures to feed and one falure to eject and i have put less than 400 rounds through it.

The falures to feed were in the first 100 rounds and both were with lame/mild federal hydra shocks (lower recoil). I believe this was due to limp wristing an already reduced recoil round. So I try not to actually count them but still....

The falure to eject was due to "?". I was shooting Sellier & Belliot 115gr. fmj. I have probably around 150 rounds through it since it's last cleaning. I hope it is me or the grime or the fact it is a new gun. I love this gun so much though that I think I may be looking past it's faults. I hope it's just me!

Note: the cheap high cap mags $15 from promag rattle badly when loaded but function just fine. The factory mags do not rattle. The grip that comes on the CZ-75b is different than those on other pistols they sell with the same frame. While these grips are very ergonomic they tend to be a little slick so get the factory grips w/deep checkering not the one with the thumb swells.

I know the gun isn't broke in yet but I would like to give you this info for you to ponder.

I have owned a Taurus Stainless copy of the Beretta. It does have a fat grip and the safety position on the Beretta is poor and the safety design on the Taurus tended to snag on things. Do not buy Taurus instead of a Beretta as there is no comparison in fit and accuracy.

If anybody knows what may be going on with my pistol please tell me that i'm stupid and need to clean my gun or whatever.Thanks DDT
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Old February 22, 2000, 07:36 PM   #10
Ala Dan
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Hello Irfan; Um, tough one here! Both are excellent weapons. I use to hate Beretta's;
but after purchasing a 92FS Centurion, I now
think much better of them. The CZ has always
been a "sleek" firearm. By that, I mean good
craftsmanship. The Beretta is a bit large for
someone with small hands; so the CZ probably
would fit them well. Accuracy is a toss up;
as both are very accurate! Beretta's are
available in stainless; not sure about the
CZ? The sight's on the stainless Beretta's
are extremely difficult to pick up. Trigger
pull on both are long; but tolerable. My vote
would go to the Beretta; cause it's hard to
beat a firm that's been in business for about
470 years, and is still going strong.

Regards,
Ala Dan, N.R.A. Life Member
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Old February 22, 2000, 08:25 PM   #11
SlackO
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The 92FS I just traded had a half-cock feature which I presume is the prerequisite for the "cocked and lockable" 92's. I hope he enjoys it. For me it just wasn't as natural as my G19.

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Old February 22, 2000, 09:01 PM   #12
Stephen A. Camp
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Hello, ddtfree! I cannot speak to the failures to feed with the hydrashoks, but it could've just been in the "break in" period or limp wristing as you mention. As to the S&B ammunition; I don't use it in 9mm as it has never grouped for me nearly so well as WW
USA, Fiochhi, American Eagle, and so forth. Chronographing one lot of it in 9mm showed extremely differing velocities, more than for any other brand tested. While both come from the same country, I truly believe that the pistol is 1st rate while the S&B ammo is not, at least in 9mm! In .45acp, it groups OK, but I've had at least 2 "hard primers" that none of my 1911s would dent sufficiently to fire. Perhaps the S&B ammo was the culprit.
Best.
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Old February 23, 2000, 07:32 PM   #13
ddt4free
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Steven Camp, Thanks for your reply. I have had bad experiences with S+B shotgun ammo not ejecting out of an old bottom eject remington shotgun. The rims are too large. I have been warned against S+B ammo by friends. The price just seemed too good to pass up. Well I guess I'll just go out and shoot it all away and be done with it. Oh darn, now I have another excuse to go mindlessly blast to my hearts content.
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Old February 23, 2000, 08:22 PM   #14
Peter M. Eick
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I have both the Beretta 96 in 40s&w and a CZ clone (springfield p9 ultra) in 40s&w so I can compare the two. I have no problems with feeding or reliablity, but the steel frame of the P9 is sure more fun to shoot then the aluminum 96. If I had to chose it would be simple take the 96, but I will not give up my P9.

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P229 Sport and 357 SIG, Perfection!
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Old February 24, 2000, 02:49 PM   #15
Tecolote
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While you're making up your mind check out www.geocities.com/Yosemite/6144/

A couple of years ago Combat Hanguns magazines did a side by side test of a Beretta 92FS and CZ75. They concluded that they couldn't reach a conclusion. I've found both extremely reliable, accurate, and well balanced. I wouldn't mind having either pistol.

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So many pistols, so little money.
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Old February 24, 2000, 03:18 PM   #16
Oleg Volk
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I just got SlackO's 92. Nice gun. I see one questionable bit of machining on the outside of the slide and that's the only "defect" I found. Nice solid gun with better sights than most. CZs do have better grips, IMO. Hope to convert this 92fs to decock-only someday (for now it operates similarly to my Makarov)

I do wonder if I assmebled it right...just how much of the locking blocks should show in the slide cutouts when viewed from above?

Will comment on accuracy and other particulars soon.
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Old February 24, 2000, 03:41 PM   #17
Hard Ball
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Having looked at both. I decided to get a CZ97B. 9mms are all right, but I perfer .45s. As an English authority used to say "their bullets come preexpanded,"
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