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Old September 20, 2009, 06:30 PM   #1
bigrebnc1861
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Tactical Shotgun

I have found what might be my next acquisition the New England Pardner protector 199.00 It's the twin copy of the Remington 870



But I will be making a few changes. Like add a Pistol grip and pistol grip forend from ATI
With an addition of a muzzle break and tube extention and heat shield

Or I might go with the tactical stock so I would be able to store extra shells on the gun. My plan is to make the addition a little at the time.

I have heard good things and bad things about the pardner shotgun. For those that may not know, I also have 2 Hi Points and would not trade them for a Kimber, so to be honest I am not into the named high priced guns. I want efficient, effective and practical weapons that I would not have to take a loan to purchase one.

Anyway any information would be appreciated.
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Old September 20, 2009, 06:35 PM   #2
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If you do swap out the stock/forend for the pistol grip only, make sure you don't get rid of the factory stock/forend. That way you can swap it back after you actually shoot it with the pistol grip only.

As for the Pardner, my father has one with a 28" barrel he uses as a backup for hunting. It's been around for a long time and he's never had any problems with it.
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Old September 20, 2009, 06:47 PM   #3
bigrebnc1861
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hoytinak

Thanks that is the imput I am looking for. So are you saying that the pistol grip is not that good? OK I will take that under advicement. I also mentioned I might go with the tactical stock to store additional shells
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Old September 20, 2009, 06:55 PM   #4
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Pistol grip only stocks are not conducive to shooting. For that matter neither are the AR style "tactical" stocks. A good fitting, solid wood or firm synthetic will tame recoil better and allow you to place large payloads of lead on target at will. Shell storage can be accomplished with a simple synthetic buttcuff or sidesaddle.

If you are interested in a very good, dependable shotgun for not a lot of money look here:

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...s_id/411537360

I bought one myself a few weeks ago even though I already had plenty of HD and hunting shotguns. Mine has definitely spent time in a cruiser but it had almost no cycle wear that would indicate it had been fired much.
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Old September 20, 2009, 07:17 PM   #5
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If you do a search, you'll find that the products from ATI are not necessarily well- thought of
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Old September 20, 2009, 07:28 PM   #6
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+1!!!

Most definitely NO on the ATI parts. I missed that in the OP or would have pointed that out in my reply as well.

The thing for you to decide is whether you want a shotgun that will not fail when your life is on the line, or whether you want one you can post pictures of on the interwebz for 14 year olds to drool over.

If the former, avoid ATI, avoid most things Tacstar (their sidesaddles do OK, the rest not so much...), avoid heatshields (useless and only adds weight and snag points), and most of all avoid PGO stocks and vertical foregrips.
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Old September 20, 2009, 07:39 PM   #7
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Personally, If that pic was MY gun, it looks just fine the way it is
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Old September 20, 2009, 07:51 PM   #8
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I played with the pistol grip only, M4 collapsible style, top folder and Hogue shortened LOP stock (which wasn't bad) on my 500. I've come back around to just shortening the factory wood stock and now I couldn't be happier with my 500....wish I would have saved the cash and did this in the first place.

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Old September 20, 2009, 07:52 PM   #9
Lee Lapin
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I want efficient, effective and practical weapons

Really???

Like add a Pistol grip and pistol grip forend from ATI
With an addition of a muzzle break and tube extention and heat shield


And all this is practical- how? Sorry, but it sounds pretty mall ninja-ish to me. Of course, I'm just an oldpart stick in the mud. So you might be disinclined to pay any attention to what I have to say. And that's fine, too. No skin off my teeth either way.

I have a Pardner Protector, I got it about a week ago along with another Chinese 870 clone, the Hawk 981. The Pardner seems like a pretty decent shotgun so far. I have a dozen or so 870s to compare it to, plus about 40 years on and off messing with 870s in one guise or another.

And I was young once too. Once upon a time I just HAD to have a "Law Enforcement Only" (it was stamped right there in the metal) folding stock for one of my first 870s. I thought it was the bee's knees. Folded up, it made the gun really short, and unfolded with the press of a button, voila- you had a shoulder stock! How cool was that? I thought it was indispensable.

Till it drew blood out of my cheek the first time I shot it. That cooled my ardor pretty doggone fast. So- been there done that.

And here I am, thirty years or more and a lot of shotgun shells, a lot of experience, and even some world class shotgun training later. And my advice to you fwiw- KISS. Keep it simple.

Become a really good shotgun shooter, and any shotgun you pick up will magically become a tactical shotgun. The transformative power to make any shotgun you pick up a tactical shotgun is in your mind and your muscles, not in anything you bolt onto the gun. You cannot buy skill in a box.

The gun is just fine the way it comes out of the box, except for needing a good cleaning to get all the packing grease out of it. All it needs is shooting. It feels heavier than an 870, I don't know if it is or not- I haven't actually weighed it. But it won't need a bunch of stuff hung on it to work well. It has sling swivels from the factory, which is a nice touch- or at least, mine does. A good carry strap is useful on a shotgun. Doesn't need to be a strappy buckly snappy tactikewl monstrosity that looks like a nylon octopus has taken up residence on the gun- just a plain old carry strap will do.

You want extra shells on the gun, try a TacStar Sidesaddle. With the longer forearm on the Pardner, you will have to use the 4-round version unless you want to modify or swap the forearm. I just put one on mine, the version that fits the 870 will go on just fine. If you shorten the forearm or swap it to a shorter LE length forearm, you can get the 6-round Sidesaddle on it. The Hawk 981 I got along with the Pardner now wears the 6 round version, but it came from the factory with a short forearm. Another practical alternative is a butt cuff, but I like the weight of the extra ammo between my hands on a 'working' gun.

Magazine extension? Forget it on this one. It has a 5-round magazine from the factory, if the plug isn't installed. That's plenty. Learn to load the thing on the fly- as Louis Awerbuck sez, "No magazine is ever big enough." Gotta learn to feed 'em to keep 'em barking.

Muzzle brake? I have one on my Serbu BFG .50BMG, and wouldn't shoot the beast without it. But I don't need one on any shotgun I own. Brakes, porting etc. don't really help on a shotgun much if at all- mostly they just make it louder. Not enough gas, not enough velocity, and most of the time not enough bearing surface to do any good. The gun has a decent recoil pad from the factory, and a really sturdy synthetic stock. if the stock doesn't fit you properlly, there's enough 'meat' there to get it shortened and either refit the factory pad or grind a premium pad to fit. Either of those approaches is better IMHO than adding some trick stock that won't work as well as what originally came on the gun- IF it fits you properly.

Heat shield? Just more weight, on a gun that certainly doesn't need it. You aren't likely to ever get the gun hot enough to hurt anything anyway, and if you learn to load it properly at the shoulder, you won't be touching the barrel even during reloads. If a full session of Rolling Thunder on the flat range doesn't get a shotgun too hot to deal with, it isn't likely anything encountered in the real world will either.

Now, it's your gun- or it will be. And you can do anything you want to it. You can spend more than the gun cost in stuff to bolt onto it, but you won't be improving what the gun can do, or what you can do with it either. Chances are you'll actually be hindering both the gun and yourself. Only training and practice will improve YOU as a shooter. I suggest you spend your money on that, and not on kewl looking geejaws to weight down a perfectly serviceable shotgun.

Stay safe,

lpl

ETA- Forgot to mention- watch Clint Smith at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FhgwHQCJwWw ...
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Last edited by Lee Lapin; September 20, 2009 at 08:04 PM.
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Old September 20, 2009, 08:44 PM   #10
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OK, so Lee expanded a little on my post.....

But everything is correct - if you want some cool toy to show on the net or to some Video Game Commandos, go ahead and add that stuff. If you're more inclined to actually rely on it to possibly save your hide one day, don't.
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Old September 20, 2009, 08:49 PM   #11
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i think that the speedfeed stocks are pretty good
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Old September 20, 2009, 11:44 PM   #12
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how much have you shot a shotgun set up like the one you're thinking of building?


I'd surprised if you said even once, because if you had, I'd bet you wouldn't like it. Not trying to be rude, it's the truth. If you only plan on having one real, no-nonsense down to business home defense shotgun, it's better to keep it simple. My go-to shotgun is very simple, full stock, no shell holder, no light, laser, sword, ray gun or telescope. Shells go in and come out the end of the barrel according to need. Period. I suggest that approach in an hd gun.


There are certain tactical products that are very high quality - Tacstar sidesaddles, a quality tactical light w/ pressure switch, Speedfeed and Hogue stocks, slings to name but a few are some products I can personally attest to and see the use in in some situations. But I do not believe they're often needed in an HD scenario. 6-8 rds is enough to honestly stop at least that number of attackers provided you're trained on the weapon. But how likely is that? My point is 5-8 rds of shotgun ammo is MORE than enough in any home scenario you're likely to encounter.


Plus, a bare-essentials shotgun that's lean and mean is a thing of beauty. just my .02

Last edited by colostomyclown; September 20, 2009 at 11:53 PM.
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Old September 21, 2009, 01:53 AM   #13
bigrebnc1861
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For my needs this is what I must achieve

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nUK1I...eature=related

OK this is the stock I picked speedfeed 3



http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=...%3Den%26sa%3DG

Thanks for the advice on the ATI

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Old September 21, 2009, 02:54 AM   #14
Borch
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Are you on a Neighborhood Watch SWAT team of some sort?

Did you notice the awkwardness of both shooter's reloads in that video? I have shot a handful of shotguns with the M4 style stocks as shown and the felt recoil is considerably more than a good solid wood or synthetic stock. Which makes smooth, fast follow ups much more difficult.

I will agree with the previous posters that all that extra crap is very unnecessary.
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Old September 21, 2009, 03:16 AM   #15
bigrebnc1861
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Quote:
Are you on a Neighborhood Watch SWAT team of some sort?
Let's just say I am in an awareness watchdog group

Did you notice the awkwardness of both shooter's reloads in that video? I have shot a handful of shotguns with the M4 style stocks as shown and the felt recoil is considerably more than a good solid wood or synthetic stock. Which makes smooth, fast follow ups much more difficult.

I will agree with the previous posters that all that extra crap is very unnecessary.

I understand about the additions I mentioned some of it being useless it was a forethought. However the I did notice the ease they had when reloading on the move with the pistol grip stock. So I think like I said I will go with the speedfeed 3
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Old September 21, 2009, 04:43 AM   #16
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It ain't a pistol grip stock that makes reloading on the fly easier. It's the same answer as the one to that old question about how you get to Carnegie Hall...



PRACTICE!



Reloading out of a Sidesaddle is actually easier than reloading out of a Speedfeed stock IMHO. The Speedfeed magazine models hold two rounds (at least some of the time, other times they just fall out) on each side. The two on the outside/shooting hand side are fairly easy to get to (if they are there). The two on the inside (cheek weld side) however are a different story- because your face is in the way . And I know this how? One of the used 870s I bought once upon a time had a SpeedFeed stock on board, so I worked with it a while.

The goal for any defensive shooter should be to achieve what the folks at ATSA ( http://www.teddytactical.com/archive...8_StudyDay.htm ) refer to as "unconscious competence." In other words, a skill level sufficient that you can run the gun unconsciously while keeping a conscious focus downrange on possible threats.

Unconscious competence is achieved through 1) TRAINING (which requires an instructor) and 2) PRACTICE. Not through buying gimmicks to put on a gun.

Find a 3-gun match near you- if you're in NC, that shouldn't be a real big problem (click on http://www.ncsection.org/ ). Go watch some action "in the flesh" and not on video. It'll be an education, I promise you.

fwiw,

lpl
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Old September 21, 2009, 09:21 AM   #17
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well, then my advice is to shoot it and find out. i don't like those kinds of stocks and ive put plenty of rounds through guns equipped with them.

Last edited by colostomyclown; September 21, 2009 at 09:40 AM.
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Old September 21, 2009, 10:09 AM   #18
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lol.
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Old September 21, 2009, 11:25 AM   #19
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I own a 12ga with a Pg only and I always receive criticism for it, but I've put a couple thousand rounds through it, and its really compact. The compactness is most of my allure to the Pg, but most ppl don't like them. If you like the feel, and can practice, the pg is, imho, a benefit for certain applications.

If you do like the PG, be aware that 3'' shells are very hard to control!!! I don't have a problem with any of the 2 3/4 loads, though.

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Old September 21, 2009, 12:45 PM   #20
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I have posted this before, but it pretty much shows my opinion:

My first HD shotgun:


My current HD shotgun.
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Old September 21, 2009, 01:55 PM   #21
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I'll be able to post pics of mine soon, my camera is no longer in my posession It did take some getting used to, but i can hit skeet with a pg, not like a pro, but the boy scout troop @ the range and I had a lot of fun going thru 200 clays and a few hundred rds of lowbrass sport load
Roscoe, I like your current setup better, too. Looks like less to fumble with when trouble comes a knockin
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Old September 21, 2009, 03:33 PM   #22
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i think that the speedfeed stocks are pretty good
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Old September 21, 2009, 03:54 PM   #23
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^^^ Mods, please? Thanks.
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Old September 21, 2009, 04:06 PM   #24
bigrebnc1861
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Mods, please? Thanks.
What was said to me in that reply was uncalled for.
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Old September 21, 2009, 04:24 PM   #25
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That's what the report post button is for........
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