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Old September 15, 2009, 02:35 PM   #1
ESI Agent
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Security open carry permit

After 9/11 training for a security permit changed for the better. Now you have to have a brain to pass. The state also requires more training to enter the field. All good but the firearm training is more of an introduction to firearms. In addition many guards and companies send their employes to unethical business people who sign off the guards training without the guard attending any training at all or pass them even when they can't pass the required test score. I would like to see the training for firearms carry improve to at least 40 hours with officer safety included. It's a sin to put the standard security guard type in the field with the substandard training they have. It would benefit the public by improving the standard of training and have a regional training facility that checks and maintains a standard and eliminate the unethical practice of many money whores who don't care about the industry or the safety of the guard or client and public itself. One of the biggest problems is those in mismanagement. There are too many people in so called management that know nothing about security and do nothing but degrade the security system. Degrees are nice but there is something to be said about real life field experience. Security is a very specialized field that requires a diverse and specialized education. For those who are interested check out ESI Security, ASIS and CPP, as well as other specialized training courses. Another I attended was the executive protection institute.
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Old September 15, 2009, 02:41 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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Are we having a big problem with poorly trained security guards? The training is poor, OK, but what is the problem it's causing.... on a scale significant enough to matter?
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Old September 15, 2009, 02:52 PM   #3
Don H
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I guess I'm totally missing the connection to Law and Civil Rights in this thread.

Is there a point to this thread?
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Old September 15, 2009, 02:56 PM   #4
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Is there a point to this thread?
Yes, but a cap covers it.
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Old September 15, 2009, 03:58 PM   #5
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While taking courses in Criminal Justice at Cal State Long Beach we were required to take a classes in Security within the Criminal Justice System. As they said security is a critical link in the Criminal Justice system and the State requires people in the security industry by "Law" to go through a certain amount of training. As more and more state and city governments cut back on public safety I for see the private sector picking up the slack. i thought the info mentioned in the tread would help educated those who hire and are considering security to consider the amount of loss they could lose by civil rights violation caused by untrained guard types. The most common being false imprisonment and negligence.
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Old September 15, 2009, 04:09 PM   #6
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i thought the info mentioned in the tread would help educated those who hire and are considering security to consider the amount of loss they could lose by civil rights violation caused by untrained guard types. The most common being false imprisonment and negligence.
I kinda doubt anyone on this forum is gonna let ANYONE that doesn't have a real badge, arrest them.

Most of us know that it's kidnapping. It's one of the reasons we have guns.
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Old September 15, 2009, 07:01 PM   #7
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There's a local scandal brewing hereabouts with a private company providing training for local police. The county pays out of their education funds for officers to attend the training, then the training company sells them the Glocks they trained with for $99. So it's cost the county an extra quarter-million dollars over last year's education budget, lots of cops have nice new pistols, and the training company is being investigated for the cheap gun deal; local pols think the cost of training was just a way to subsidise the pistol purchase, and the local police were signing up in great herds to get the guns at taxpayer expense.
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Old September 15, 2009, 07:58 PM   #8
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I kinda doubt anyone on this forum is gonna let ANYONE that doesn't have a real badge, arrest them.

Most of us know that it's kidnapping. It's one of the reasons we have guns.
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Old September 15, 2009, 10:28 PM   #9
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Some people don't have badges, but they can still sure arrest you.
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Old September 16, 2009, 12:27 AM   #10
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"A hit with a .45 ACP beats a hit with a .22 LR everytime."

Ever heard of shot placement Scorpion?
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Old September 16, 2009, 03:03 PM   #11
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Some people don't have badges, but they can still sure arrest you.
Illuminate me.

And don't bring up "citizen's arrest."
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Old September 17, 2009, 09:28 PM   #12
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Varies from state-to-state, but there are plenty of situations (at least in my state) where a non-sworn person can legally and legitimately arrest you.

Oh, and you're not allowed to shoot them, even if you have a gun.

Sorry.

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Old September 18, 2009, 01:59 PM   #13
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In California under PC837 of the penal code a private person has a right to make an arrest. Loss prevention agents make more arrest than most police officers depending on the agency and officer. Aa a private security agent I can't count the amount of felony arrest I've made. I heard a lot of people who i arrested state "you can't arrest me your just a" and I would advise them that they should go back to the law school they attended and get their money back. In fact private security can do things that police officers cannot do because they are not limited by the constitution of course I've seen many sworn officers make unlawful detentions/arrest.
In L.A. we just had a L.A County Sheriff deputy shoot a person with no firearm in the back and stated that they were in fear for their lives because the suspect appeared to be going for a firearm. As a private security person we would go to prison for that. We cannot use deadly force based on assumptions. Based on our training the suspect must have the ability the opportunity and expressed intent. This is judged by the objective standard. Former legal major that loves tort law.
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Old September 18, 2009, 02:20 PM   #14
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Well fellas, I doubt I'm alone on this one:

I keep my nose clean and stay out of "arrestable" situations in the first place, but if you ain't got tin, then you're NOT going to be arresting me.

Too many weirdos, mall cops, mall ninjas, imposters and other ne'erdowells to trust anything but an honest to God badge.

That's my opinion and it may not be legal fact... but it's a fact of my life.
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Old September 18, 2009, 03:58 PM   #15
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When the police screw-up an arrest, they get "qualified immunity". (This can be a good thing or bad depending on the case, that's not the point.) When a citizen makes an arrest, he better get everything exactly right, otherwise it's kidnapping.
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Old September 18, 2009, 04:31 PM   #16
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Some people don't have badges, but they can still sure arrest you.
Better be a bunch of em. Without a badge I walk away.
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