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Old September 15, 2009, 01:49 PM   #1
beeker77
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03 FFL (C&R) Bound Book question

I just received my C&R FFL, and at the same time, the bound book I ordered from Brownells (pretty nice!). Question: Do I need to enter my existing C&R firearms in the book, or only any firearms acquired after receiving the license?
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Old September 15, 2009, 02:09 PM   #2
vintagemc313
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Only the ones after the license was issued.
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Old September 15, 2009, 05:13 PM   #3
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You need to enter any C&R firearms you acquire after obtaining the license and any C&R firearms you currently own should you sell/transfer one to someone else.
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Old September 18, 2009, 04:42 PM   #4
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I was looking into getting my C&R to help with growing my collection. How hard is it to obtain one or is just a long waiting game.

Thank You
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Old September 18, 2009, 07:44 PM   #5
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Just to clarify aliitle more. You must enter any Curio and Relic firearm in your bound book even if you didnt use your license to aquire it
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Old September 19, 2009, 10:46 AM   #6
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Quote:
Hkmp5sd: ...You need to enter any C&R firearms you acquire after obtaining the license and any C&R firearms you currently own should you sell/transfer one to someone else.
Absolutely correct.

Quote:
Rocky72:... I was looking into getting my C&R to help with growing my collection. How hard is it to obtain one or is just a long waiting game...
1. Get application directly from ATF.gov (NOT from some website with out of date info).
2. Complete app, mail a copy with $30 check to ATF, mail another copy to the chief LEO where you live marked "For Files Only- No Action Required"
3. Wait

The wait is worth every penny you will save. My C&R paid for itself just on my Brownells discount alone.




Quote:
Orlando: Just to clarify aliitle more. You must enter any Curio and Relic firearm in your bound book even if you didnt use your license to aquire it
Not exactly.

There is no requirement to record C&R firearms that were owned BEFORE you received your 03FFL.

C&R firearms you acquire AFTER receiving your 03FFL, whether obtained using your license or not, must be recorded in your bound book.




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Last edited by dogtown tom; September 19, 2009 at 10:54 AM.
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Old September 19, 2009, 12:02 PM   #7
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Uh thats what I said.
Never said record anything that you had before you license
I said to record any C&R firearm even if you do not use your license to do so.(meaning after you had license, thought that was a givin considering the disscussion)
All CMP purchases for example
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Old September 21, 2009, 07:32 AM   #8
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I think he was clarifying what Hkmp5sd incorrectly wrote -

Quote:
You need to enter any C&R firearms you acquire after obtaining the license and any C&R firearms you currently own should you sell/transfer one to someone else.
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Last edited by jsmaye; September 21, 2009 at 09:04 AM.
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Old September 21, 2009, 07:40 AM   #9
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Maybe I screwed up, but I too wasnt completey clear on some things, such as if CMP puchases needed to be logged or c&r's I had before my licenses needed to be logged.

I log everything, all cmp purchases and the items I owned before my 03 license. In case of an audit I'd rather be told that I have too much logged than not enough.
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Old September 21, 2009, 10:14 AM   #10
Orlando
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Nothing purchased before you had you license needs to be logged in, only logged out if sold
Everything that is C&R eligeable needs to be logged in after you aquired your license even if you didnt use you license to aquire the firearms , such as CMP firearms
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Old September 21, 2009, 03:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
I think he was clarifying what Hkmp5sd incorrectly wrote -
Would you care to point out anything Hkmp5sd incorrectly wrote?
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Old October 24, 2009, 04:08 PM   #12
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Interesting thread. Sorry to drag it back from the dead, but I have a further question.

So all NON-C&R guns whether acquired before or after you get your license are simply not a factor. They do not get logged ever. Correct?
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Old October 24, 2009, 04:18 PM   #13
Orlando
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Non Curio and Relics firearms do not get logged
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Old October 24, 2009, 04:27 PM   #14
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thanks
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Old October 24, 2009, 09:34 PM   #15
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It is also my understanding that one should list all C&R purchased/obtained after the license is issued.
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Old October 24, 2009, 11:09 PM   #16
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If You Used Your C & R To Transfer It To You...

If it was bought from a dealer and the dealer forced you to fill out a Form 4473 to complete the transfer, it doesn't have to be logged in the book.

I find most local gun dealers reluctant to accept a C & R license in lieu of doing the form, and their running a NICS check on you.
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Old October 25, 2009, 11:02 AM   #17
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If it was bought from a dealer and the dealer forced you to fill out a Form 4473 to complete the transfer, it doesn't have to be logged in the book.
Negative. ANY C&R firearm you obtain after acquiring a C&R license must be entered into your bound book. Last year, Technosavant contacted ATF and that is what they say. Here is a link to his ATF response.

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/.../t-313770.html
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Old October 25, 2009, 11:10 AM   #18
Orlando
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Its pretty simple guys and has been covered already in this thread
Do not log in any C&R firearm that was aquired" BEFORE " you got you license
You must log out 'ALL" C&R firearms when disposed of
You must log in all C&R firearms wether you used your license to obtain them or not
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Old October 30, 2009, 11:20 PM   #19
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Does the bound book literally have to be a bound book? How about pages I printed off my computer, hole punched, and placed in a 3-ring binder?
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Old October 31, 2009, 05:11 AM   #20
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That is fine
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Old November 2, 2009, 01:17 AM   #21
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Mine's not even a book, because I only have a few C&Rs. It would be kind of dumb to make a book out of a single sheet, so I just have it and a couple blank forms in the folder where I keep my C&R copies and ATF paperwork.
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Old November 5, 2009, 01:56 PM   #22
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Quote:
Negative. ANY C&R firearm you obtain after acquiring a C&R license must be entered into your bound book. Last year, Technosavant contacted ATF and that is what they say. Here is a link to his ATF response.
Double negative. If you are forced to purchase a firearm on a 4473, you have NOT used your 03 license to purchase said firearm and it then has the same status as any other modern (non C&R) firearm you have to do a 4473 for.

In that case, you have the same status as John Q. Public.

Last edited by gyvel; November 5, 2009 at 02:15 PM.
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Old November 5, 2009, 01:58 PM   #23
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Mine's not even a book, because I only have a few C&Rs. It would be kind of dumb to make a book out of a single sheet, so I just have it and a couple blank forms in the folder where I keep my C&R copies and ATF paperwork.
I assume that you have an 03 FFL, in which case there is a very specific format and very specific information that BATF requires. It would be in your best interests to spend a few bucks and get the book. Brownell's has them. Lots cheaper than a lawyer.
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Old November 5, 2009, 04:34 PM   #24
Hkmp5sd
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Quote:
Double negative. If you are forced to purchase a firearm on a 4473, you have NOT used your 03 license to purchase said firearm and it then has the same status as any other modern (non C&R) firearm you have to do a 4473 for.

In that case, you have the same status as John Q. Public.
Did you read ATF's response to Technosavant listed above???

It does not matter HOW you acquire the C&R firearm. If you acquire it AFTER you get your 03-FFL, it goes in the bound book. You can do a FORM 4 transfer of an NFA C&R and it STILL goes in the bound book. You do a face-to-face purchase of a C&R from a friend, it goes in the bound book. The amount of paperwork you do to get it is meaningless. End of story.
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Last edited by Hkmp5sd; November 5, 2009 at 04:41 PM.
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Old November 5, 2009, 06:01 PM   #25
gyvel
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Quote:
It does not matter HOW you acquire the C&R firearm. If you acquire it AFTER you get your 03-FFL, it goes in the bound book. You can do a FORM 4 transfer of an NFA C&R and it STILL goes in the bound book. You do a face-to-face purchase of a C&R from a friend, it goes in the bound book. The amount of paperwork you do to get it is meaningless. End of story.
I spoke to my ATF field agent this afternoon and he said otherwise.

By your "logic," if you purchase a firearm that isn't a C&R, it has to go in your book.

Purchasing an NFA C&R on a Form 4 bypasses an SOT 3, and yes, must go in your book. On the other hand, if you get it through the SOT 3 rather than directly with an 03 C&R, you will fill out a 4473 at time of acceptance, just like any other firearm you do not use your license for. Ergo, it doesn't go in your book. You are John Q. Public.

A FTF purchase of a C&R from your "friend", by regulation, goes in your book; This is done on "the honor system."

The status of the firearm is irrelevant, however, if you are purchasing it on a 4473. Once again, you are John Q. Public.

ANY 4473 purchase makes you John Q. Public. Your gun does not go in your book. You did NOT use your 03 license for the purchase.

Now its "End of story."

Quote:
Did you read ATF's response to Technosavant listed above???
ATF's answer to Technosavant made no reference whatsoever to an 03 licensee purchasing a C&R weapon commercially on a 4473.

It referenced all the standard regulations regarding the use of the 03 license to purchase interstate or intrastate or from non-licensees and regarding entry of purchases/dispositions into/out of your bound book.

I suggest you go back and reread it and point out to me where it states that purchases made on a 4473 WITHOUT use of the 03 license are required to be placed in the bound book.

Last edited by gyvel; November 5, 2009 at 06:35 PM.
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