The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Dave McCracken Memorial Shotgun Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 14, 2009, 10:34 AM   #1
Blackops_2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2008
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,586
Looking at a new semi auto duck gun.

Tired of my 870 with 3inch mags kicking the hell out of me. I've been looking at benelli, franchi, and stoeger. I realize that all of them use the inertia system. What im looking for is a semi auto that isn't going to jam in 15 degree weather. I had my eyes, set on the m2 field. The only difference i could tell between it and a black eagle was the black eagles ability to hold 3 and 1/2s. I've seen a franchi I-12 in action and i was amazed until it jammed. So i was unsure. I have a friend that says his super black eagle has never failed him. Have another friend that says his stoeger is his favorite but it has frozen up once on him. Another thing i would like to know, is what is the difference between the 3 besides brand name and price? Doesn't make sense to me if they all use the same action. I know finish can be cheaper but we're talking synthetic shotguns here.
Blackops_2 is offline  
Old September 14, 2009, 11:20 AM   #2
GeauxTide
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2009
Location: Helena, AL
Posts: 3,072
Love my 11-87 cause it comes in LH.
GeauxTide is offline  
Old September 14, 2009, 11:34 AM   #3
RetiredLawman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 31, 2008
Posts: 133
I have a couple of Stoeger 2000s that I have never had any trouble with. I bought them for my sons who swear by them. However, they do have considerable kick. Thus I prefer my Remington 11-87 for heavy duty shooting. It is heavy enough to absorb recoil and it is a gas operated system. Much softer on the shoulder.

I suppose the higher end inertia actions are OK but they are considerably overpriced, IMHO. I suggest that you look around fro a good 11-87 in 3". Thy are a thousand dollars cheaper than the Benellis and I have never had a failure in over twenty years. A plus is that should you ever need parts, every gunsmith around has parts for a Remington. The o-ring has never failed but I carry an extra in my wallet just in case. They run about $.35 cents at your local hardware store.

The higher dollar inertia guns are probably OK. I can't afford them. Try getting parts for them. I've read posts where folks state that Benelli's customer service lacks a lot. I've never had to use it so I can't say first hand. I will say that the Stoeger 2000s have been very reliable. They have the same action as the I-12, same gun with a pretty exterior.
RetiredLawman is offline  
Old September 14, 2009, 12:03 PM   #4
Blackops_2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2008
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,586
I had friends tell me that if your benelli messed up they would send you a new one guaranteed warranty. I always thought that Gas operated guns were more prone to malfunction in harsh conditions? The prices of the benelli m2 and the Franchi i-12 aren't bad in my opinion 800-1000. We've got 2 1100 skeet B editions that were about the same price. Now the super black eagle II and cordoba are ridiculous. I was kinda set on the inertia action, but ill check the 11-87. The inertia action to me looks like the ak-47 of shotguns.
Blackops_2 is offline  
Old September 14, 2009, 12:56 PM   #5
LanceOregon
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 10, 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,774
If you want a low recoiling shotgun, then a gas operated semiauto is going to be softer shooting than an inertia action shotgun.

You might want to check out the brand new Browning Maxus, which just came out on the market a few weeks ago. Many dealers now have this brand new shotgun in stock.

It has Browning's new "Power Drive" Gas Operated Action Design, their new improved "Lightning Trigger", Dura-Touch Armor Coating, InFlex Recoil Pad, Speed Load Plus, and the new Speed Lock Forearm.

See:

http://www.browning.com/products/cat...24B&catalog_=B


The shotgun was featured at ShotShow 2009, but is just becoming available now:




Browning developed this new shotgun to be able to compete against Beretta's 391 Extrema 2, which has proven to be very popular with waterfowl hunters.

It is a truly awesome gun, and is what I use:





--
LanceOregon is offline  
Old September 14, 2009, 02:06 PM   #6
mwar410
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 25, 2008
Location: maine
Posts: 234
I shoot a 391 urika II, in probably the harshest waterfowling weather. We can sea duck until the end of Jan. out on the open water the salt is just in the air, in northern Maine. I decided to test this gun, since others often mention that gas guns are dirtier. The gun is 4 years old and has about 2000 rds/yr ( also been shooting clays with it . Last week was the first time I tore it down to clean it ( no malfunctions, just thought it was about time). The only cleaning that was done was the occasional bore mop, quick wiping, and a shot of breakfree in the breach. It is tha max4 camo with syn stocks. not bad for a dirty gun.
mwar410 is offline  
Old September 14, 2009, 02:50 PM   #7
Blackops_2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2008
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,586
Kick isn't a huge factor, i can stand shooting 3"s in my pump it just wears on me. I'm not looking for a light recoiling gun so to speak. Most automatics are going to shoot lighter than a 870 pump. I want a automatic that withstand conditions that a pump can. Mainly looking for a automatic that will shoot shot after shot in 10-15 degree weather. Like duck commander says "boom, boom, boom"

Nice Mwar thats what im looking for. The reason i have my eyes set on benelli. Is i read an article i think it was by guns and ammo and they shot 88,000 rounds through a benelli cordoba and not one malfunction or sign of wearing.
Blackops_2 is offline  
Old September 14, 2009, 03:02 PM   #8
Maromero
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2009
Location: Outside the continental U
Posts: 752
Rem 11-87

No thrills, no frills, soft shooting relatively inexpensive shotgun. The good part is you can use it as a weight, paddle with it if you loose your paddle, and basically abuse it. It will work if properly maintained.
Maromero is offline  
Old September 14, 2009, 03:13 PM   #9
greensteelforge
Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2009
Posts: 90
If you can find a lightly used Winchester Super-X 2 or 3, you won't be disappointed, they'll cycle anything (the 3 1/2" guns have a little trouble with the REALLY light trap loads, but nothing else), and they use Browning chokes (I have a strong suspicion that the gun pictured up there is nothing more than a Super-X with a Browning label, and a jacked up price tag). After the gas guns like this have been around for a while, I doubt anyone will make an inertia driven auto twelve any more.
greensteelforge is offline  
Old September 14, 2009, 03:29 PM   #10
mwar410
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 25, 2008
Location: maine
Posts: 234
I will add that this was a replacement for a 870 express ( that would start rusting as it came out of the truck ) and an 11-87 that looked like a canoe paddle and the ejector broke several times. I think they took a 3" and just made it to chamber a 3.5", wouldn't hold up to the father- outlaws 3.5" duck rds. If you don't need the 3.5" stay away from the extrema II, it feels way to. imo
the only rust areas on the urika were the swivels, and the rivet that holds the gas vent on the forearm.
mwar410 is offline  
Old September 14, 2009, 03:33 PM   #11
johnbt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 6, 1999
Location: Richmond, Virginia USA
Posts: 6,004
The last time I looked the Browning Golds, etc. had a shell cut-off and the Winchester didn't.

A few years ago I bought a lightly used 2003 Winchester SX-2 Waterfowl 3.5" with DuraTouch coating and it has been perfect through saltwater boat rides, freezing rain, snow and all of that duck hunting stuff like dragging it through the 9-foot-tall reeds for a quarter mile to get to a blind.

It cycles low brass 2.75" bird loads and is one of my favorite guns. And it's a soft shooter compared to my '93 870 Express with a Decelerator pad that I put on it (and it's 100% better than the original hard pad.)

I love the DuraTouch, too. A shell cut-off would have been nice, but it wasn't a deal breaker.

John
johnbt is offline  
Old September 14, 2009, 03:34 PM   #12
rickyjames
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 5, 2009
Posts: 558
i have a police style tristar viper thats works well. i believe they make a ducks unlimited version. it might be worth some research for you. there is a field test on the net that shows an iced up gun working well.
rickyjames is offline  
Old September 14, 2009, 08:07 PM   #13
jmr40
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 15, 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 5,947
Any of the better gas guns will work fine for you but it seems like you want the Benelli. The gas guns will have less recoil, but the Benellis are not all as bad as a lot of people make them out to be. Certainly no worse than a pump or double and a good recoil pad will help. If I shot a lot of clays I would lean toward a Beretta, but personally prefer the Benelli M-2 for a hunting gun.

Of course for around $30 a limbsaver pad on the 870 would help tremendously to tame recoil.
jmr40 is offline  
Old September 14, 2009, 08:58 PM   #14
Blackops_2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2008
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,586
Ya i have a limbsaver i can't remember what it's for but ill look at it. Also doesn't beretta own Benelli, franchi, and stoeger?
Blackops_2 is offline  
Old September 14, 2009, 09:18 PM   #15
Maromero
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 21, 2009
Location: Outside the continental U
Posts: 752
Quote:
I will add that this was a replacement for a 870 express ( that would start rusting as it came out of the truck ) and an 11-87 that looked like a canoe paddle and the ejector broke several times
Fortunately that's not my expirience.
Maromero is offline  
Old September 14, 2009, 09:22 PM   #16
RNB65
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2006
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 167
Beretta 391
__________________
THR refugee.
RNB65 is offline  
Old September 15, 2009, 07:14 AM   #17
RJM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2007
Posts: 561
After having owned a Benelli Super Black Eagle I cannot recommend them, some people swear by them, but I learned to really dislike mine. I can recommend the Winchester SX3 and the Browning Silvers, I own one of each and can that my experience has led me to believe they are the better gun. My winchester went through a heck of a season last year and never once had an issue. I had an issue with my teeth chattering so loudly the ducks could hear, but the gun never had one problem. The dura coat stuff really keeps the gun in your hands and the gun just fit me right, didn't pound me to death and just worked. The more I hunt ducks and geese, I am becoming a Browning guy.

I would like to really look at a Browning Maxus too.
__________________
.327 SP101, .327 Blackhawk, .45 Vaquero, Browning Maxus, Browning Silver Lightning, Ruger no.1 .243, Stoeger .410 sxs, TC Contender, Remington 870 Wingmaster, Uberti 1860, Hawken, Moisin, Mauser, Marlin 60
RJM is offline  
Old September 15, 2009, 09:16 AM   #18
Blackops_2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2008
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,586
What were your problems with the black eagle? Im mainly considering the m2, cause it's cheaper but fill me in. I mean was it like a personal preference or was actual malfunctions and other irritations?
Blackops_2 is offline  
Old September 15, 2009, 01:05 PM   #19
LanceOregon
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 10, 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,774
Quote:
If you can find a lightly used Winchester Super-X 2 or 3, you won't be disappointed, they'll cycle anything (the 3 1/2" guns have a little trouble with the REALLY light trap loads, but nothing else), and they use Browning chokes (I have a strong suspicion that the gun pictured up there is nothing more than a Super-X with a Browning label, and a jacked up price tag). After the gas guns like this have been around for a while, I doubt anyone will make an inertia driven auto twelve any more.

I will second your opinion that the Winchester Super X2 and X3 shotguns are also very good guns. I used to shoot a Super X2 myself. But I ended up giving that shotgun to my son. And I then bought a Beretta 391 Extrema 2 to replace it.

Here is my son with his Super X2:



As far as a price gap between Browning and Winchester, it is actually very marginal on new guns. Both of them, and also the Beretta 391 Extrema 2, are all basically in the same price range.

Regarding the new Browning Maxus shotgun, though, you are clearly misinformed. This was one of the major new shotguns announced at the 2009 Shot Show earlier this year. And it only finally started shipping last month.

I mainly mentioned it because it is so very new, that few folks yet know about it now being on the market. Dealers have only had it now for a few weeks. Feature-wise, the Browning Maxus is enhanced to compete well with the Berettas.

My only concern with the Maxus is how very light it is. 6 lbs 15 oz seems awfully light for a 3.5 inch 12 Gauge Super Magnum. In contrast, the 3.5 inch 12 Gauge Magnum Beretta 391 Extrema 2 is 7 3/4 lbs, and the 3 inch Magnum Beretta 391 Urika II is 7.2 lbs.

The Maxus sure has some great features, though. Here is a web page with more info about it:


http://www.browning.com/products/int...axus/#onscreen


--

Last edited by LanceOregon; September 15, 2009 at 01:54 PM.
LanceOregon is offline  
Old September 15, 2009, 04:48 PM   #20
RJM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 27, 2007
Posts: 561
Quote:
What were your problems with the black eagle? Im mainly considering the m2, cause it's cheaper but fill me in. I mean was it like a personal preference or was actual malfunctions and other irritations?
My SBE was the first generation one and it was very well put together, fit and finish wise. Packaged nice and felt nice in the hands. Problem was that it never could reliably cycle lighter loads, I tried to shoot trap informally with my friends with it and the amount of times that it choked on those rounds was ridiculous. I also had a few problems in the first 750 rounds or so cycling some steel duck loads. I have yet to have my winchester choke like that and I have taken it out hunting and beat the heck out of it more than I ever did my Benelli.

The gun fit me pretty well and it came with adjustable shims and something like 5 different chokes, it was a complete package which is good. Its a really light gun, which is great for carrying into the field but sucks on the shoulder. It recoiled quite a bit more than my Winchester does now, at least if feels that way to me. Shooting 3.5" magnums out of it was pretty painful, like I didn't want to do it twice, but out of the Winchester it really isn't that bad. Now with the recoil reducing stock that the current Benellis have, they may have closed the gap on recoil control, but when I bought mine there wasn't that option.

For the money that they are selling them for I can't say that, for me, they are worth it. I would rather put the money towards a good browning and buy a couple of cases or five of shells. IMHO, you get a better gun for less money. Of course, some disagree with me.
__________________
.327 SP101, .327 Blackhawk, .45 Vaquero, Browning Maxus, Browning Silver Lightning, Ruger no.1 .243, Stoeger .410 sxs, TC Contender, Remington 870 Wingmaster, Uberti 1860, Hawken, Moisin, Mauser, Marlin 60
RJM is offline  
Old September 15, 2009, 05:57 PM   #21
LanceOregon
Junior member
 
Join Date: May 10, 2008
Location: Oregon
Posts: 2,774
My own experience has been that the Winchester Super X2 and Browning Gold shotguns absorb recoil the best, even slightly better than the Beretta 391 shotguns.

Browning claims that this new Power Drive gas system on the new Maxus does even better yet. It certainly is physically the biggest gas piston that I have ever seen on a shotgun. And the ports on it are huge.

However, I am happy with my current set of Berettas. I doubt I will ever buy another shotgun.

--
LanceOregon is offline  
Old December 10, 2009, 10:28 PM   #22
Blackops_2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2008
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,586
Well my brother got a franchi I-12 for an early christmas gift. And i have to say the SOB kicks like my 870 with 3 inch mags. I wasn't impressed. Im gonna stick with my 870 until i get the chance to shoot someones benelli or try some other gas guns. Right now the rangefinder and chronograph is more important for my needs.
Blackops_2 is offline  
Old December 11, 2009, 01:02 AM   #23
zippy13
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 23, 2008
Location: SoCal
Posts: 6,405
Have you considered one of the 10-ga semi-auto duck/goose guns?
Yeah, I know, in past threads most said a 10-ga is overkill except for duck and geese. Well, you did say you're looking for a duck gun. Those who shoot water fowl with a 10-ga as opposed to 12ga mags claim the heaver 10s have less kick and bring down more birds.
Here's links to Remington and Browning 10s
http://www.remington.com/products/fi...odel_SP-10.asp
http://www.browning.com/products/cat...10B&catalog_=B
zippy13 is offline  
Old December 11, 2009, 01:14 AM   #24
JackSparrow
Member
 
Join Date: December 4, 2009
Posts: 24
go for the SX3. Such a light weapon, and if you feel like firing all three shots in half a second you'd be able to (450+ rounds per minute) :P
JackSparrow is offline  
Old December 11, 2009, 03:16 AM   #25
Blackops_2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2008
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,586
Now been looking for reliability reviews for the sx3, maxus, and the extrema 2. If i can just find one review showing the gun handling itself in 16 degree or freezing temperatures without a malfunction, im sold. I don't think i'll ever like the Inertia driven system. I mean don't get me wrong the recoil isn't that bad but when i shoot any automatic im used to lightly felt recoil with my 1100s. It was kind of a shocking factor to see the I-12 kick that much.
Blackops_2 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:57 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12392 seconds with 7 queries