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Old September 13, 2009, 06:18 PM   #1
craig2724
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loads for 9mm using IMR 700-X, help

I recently started loading 9mm and am trying to stay with the same powder that I use for .357 and .38, IMR 700-X. The problem is the load table I have says the min load (for a 115 grain copper plated bullet. .356 dia) is 3.3 grains and the max load is 3.7. The 3.3 won't even eject the bullet out of the barrel. The 3.7 load stove pipes about 4 out of 20 times. The COL I am at is1.100.

I am shooting a Springfield XD, 4" barrel, and have only shot about 200 rounds through it.

Any help would be great.
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Old September 13, 2009, 06:36 PM   #2
D. Manley
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Where are you getting your load data, that appears below starting level charges in mine?
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Old September 13, 2009, 07:06 PM   #3
craig2724
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I got it off the web site from Hogdon Powder Company.

Having trouble finding a specific site for IMR.
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Old September 13, 2009, 07:36 PM   #4
Jim243
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You found the correct web site for IMR, it is distributed by Hodgdon.

Jim
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Old September 13, 2009, 07:53 PM   #5
bobby-t
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speer lists 115gr fmj rn
c.o.a.l. - 1.135"
700-x start charge 4.0gr, max charge 4.4gr

sierra lists 115gr fmj rn
c.o.a.l. - 1.100"
700-x start charge 3.8gr, max charge 5.0gr

hope this helps
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Old September 13, 2009, 07:57 PM   #6
Jim243
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bobby-t

He is using plated bullets and is using the load data for Lead bullets, not copper jacketed. You are giving him the WRONG load data. If it was me I would go half way between lead and jacketed, but wouldn't recommend it for others.

Also he will need to keep the fps to 1,000 fps or lower so the plating will not injure people standing to his left or right or himself.


Jim

Last edited by Jim243; September 13, 2009 at 08:08 PM.
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Old September 13, 2009, 08:12 PM   #7
craig2724
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I guess I will try 1 more load at 3.9 grains or 4.0 grains. If that doesn't work I will abandon the thought of using the same powder and look at something else. I only purchased 250 of the Berry's plated bullets to try. I will change to FMJ when I can get my hands on some.

Thanks for the help.
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Old September 13, 2009, 08:15 PM   #8
rg1
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Go here and download or print the last that I know of IMR Loaders Guide:
http://www.imrpowder.com/pdf_reload.html
IMR data for 115 JHP shows 4.7 as max using 700X. They say reduce 10% and work up. They used RP cases and primers oal at 1.110"
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Old September 13, 2009, 08:22 PM   #9
bobby-t
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quote-
He is using plated bullets and is using the load data for Lead bullets, not copper jacketed. You are giving him the WRONG load data. If it was me I would go half way between lead and jacketed, but wouldn't recommend it for others.

Also he will need to keep the fps to 1,000 fps or lower so the plating will not injure people standing to his left or right or himself.


i my self load plated bullets (berry's) good up to 1200fps. you should really look into plated bullets before you accuse someone of wrong info.
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Old September 13, 2009, 08:23 PM   #10
D. Manley
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Quote:
I guess I will try 1 more load at 3.9 grains or 4.0 grains. If that doesn't work I will abandon the thought of using the same powder and look at something else. I only purchased 250 of the Berry's plated bullets to try. I will change to FMJ when I can get my hands on some.
Bump the load to 4.0 or better and if need be, go up to the mid-level jacketed data.. You'll be fine and don't sweat the plated bullets...you're not even close to any velocity-related problem with them.
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Old September 13, 2009, 09:04 PM   #11
craig2724
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If I did the math right according to the Hodgdon charts I have, if I up the load to 4.0 grains the velocity should be 1170. That will be a reasonable velocity to stop at.

Thanks for your help.
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Old September 13, 2009, 09:44 PM   #12
Jim243
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Bobby sorry if I insulted you, but I would not recommend a jacketed load for lead or plated bullets. I have a load for plated bullets, but they are 124 grain and I use different powder than Craig is using. Read Barry's web site the warning is not to exceed 1,100 fps. Same for Rainers.

Jim
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Old September 13, 2009, 10:23 PM   #13
D. Manley
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Quote:
If I did the math right according to the Hodgdon charts I have, if I up the load to 4.0 grains the velocity should be 1170. That will be a reasonable velocity to stop at.
If it functions your gun OK and you like the load, should be fine. I think you'll be considerably below 1170 though, more likely somewhere between 1,000 and 1050 FPS. As example, Speers data shows:

115 Speer GDHP or TMJ RN
IMR 700-X
4.0 Grains
1007 FPS

Sierras data is very similar and closely parallels Speers. The plated bullets will present no problems at these velocities and IMO, can be pushed considerably harder without issue. Most problems with plated bullets shedding the jacket can be traced to over-crimping, "digging into" the plating. In my own use, I regularly use mid-level jacketed data with never a hint of any problem shooting plated in 9MM, .40 and .45 ACP.
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Old September 14, 2009, 09:00 AM   #14
craig2724
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I loaded 20 rounds this morning at 3.9 grains and the gun cycled fine. I will find out if this is a good load on sunday at the IDPA shoot. I will go through about 60+ rounds.

Thanks for the help.
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Old September 14, 2009, 09:18 AM   #15
rg1
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From another year version of IMR Reloaders Guide:
9MM Luger --RP case --RP 1 1/2 primer
Rem 115 JHP oal 1.110" --Hi-Skor 700X--4.7 grains--1130fps--32600 cup
Rem 124 MC oal 1.135"-----700X-------4.8 grains---1110fps-32600 cup
Hornady 147 BTHP XTP oal 1.130"-700X--3.7 grains-------935fps--32100 cup
Don't think the on-line link to IMR's Guide listed 700X.
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Old September 14, 2009, 09:58 AM   #16
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Midways LoadMap series of manuals tested 700X in 9MM. With three 115 gr FMJ-RN bullets using RP cases and Win SP primers:
plated 115 FMJ-RN oal 1.165"--3.7 grains-1000fps--25200psi
------------------------------3.8-------1021-----26200
------------------------------3.9-------1042-----27100
------------------------------4.0-------1063-----28100
------------------------------4.1-------1084-----29100
------------------------------4.2-------1105-----30000psi
------------------------------4.3-------1126-----31000
----------------------Maximum-4.4------1147-----32000
Speer Gold Dot 115 gr HP 1.145" oal 700X powder
3.7---967fps--24100psi
3.9---1010---26200
4.1---1052---28300
4.3---1095---30400
Maximum--4.5--1138fps--32500psi
________
With a Speer 115 JHP 1.125" oal
3.7--1003fps---25200psi
3.9--1046-----27500
4.1--1089-----29700
Maximum 4.4--1155fps--33200psi
All three of these bullets are plated but your overall length is shorter and shorter oal increases pressure. I think it does show above that your 3.7-3.9 grain charge is mild though and not maximum. I'd be cautious going above 4.1 grains but with bullets tested in the Midway LoadMap most maximum charges for the 17 bullets tested was at 4.4-4.5 grains of 700X. With the Hornady 115 jacketed XTP the max was 4.1. Noslers 115 FMJ max was 4.2 and the Nosler HP was 4.3. Sierra's 115 JHP max was 4.2 grains. Just for more info.
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Old March 23, 2013, 09:23 PM   #17
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I found myself in the same situation. I have Ranier 9mm 115 grain copper plated bullets, with a supply of 700-X gunpowder. None of my books had loads specifically for 115 grain plated bullets, so I used the information posted here. I loaded 6 test cartridges each with 3.8, 4.0 and 4.2 grains of 700-X. I fired them in my Sig P239. All fired well. However, with the 3.8 grain load, my slide did not lock after the final shot. With the 4.0 and 4.2 grain loads, the slide did lock after the final shot.
One caveat is that I picked up the 700-X used and opened, and it was vintage aged in a 5 lb. can labeled Dupont Hi-Skor 700-X. It worked well on 38 Special loads, so I wanted to try it with my 9mm. I don't know if this age would have any bearing on the strength of the powder.
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Old March 23, 2013, 10:05 PM   #18
Misssissippi Dave
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I hope you are weighing your loads. I stopped using 700x because it would not measure consistantly with my powder measure. I prefer ball type powders for pistol loads mostly because of how well they work with my powder measure. I once used 700x a lot with shotgun loads and with .38 specials in the days I measured every load to get the most accurate load I could get for pistol loads. Most ball powders will give you a much wider range between max. and min. levels than you get with 700x and that translates to making it easier to find a load that works well. Powder costs less than any other component used for pistol ammo. I think it is well worth the cost to just use one that works well rather than trying to stay with just one powder.
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Old March 23, 2013, 11:12 PM   #19
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Thanks for the advice, Mississippi Dave. I'm new to reloading, so I'm just learning the nuances such as powder types. Indeed, I weighed each load, but I noticed the variances from my powder measure. It's good to know that the powder type is responsible for that.
I acquired 7 lbs. of vintage 700-X from a trade, which lead me to use it for my different pistol calibers. I will use this as a learning experience when choosing my next powder.
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Old March 24, 2013, 09:59 AM   #20
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Some of the powders I have used that do measure well are AA2, AA5, AA7, AA9, W231, WST, WSF, and some VV powders. There are several more powders available to use for pistol loads that measure quite well.

It does matter if you are loading lead or jacketed bullets and what you want to achieve. Some powders are only good for very light loads. Some powders preform better at the upper end. There are some powders that burn clean while some are quite dirty and everything in between. Many powders can give you accurate ammo once you figure out the load your gun likes and the OAL that works for your gun. Fast burning powders tend to give you softer recoil and slower moving bullets. They can also be very accurate. Slower powders tend to have more recoil and you can get the bullet to move at higher speeds before you reach the max pressure levels. Things might change with the length of barrel used. There can be quite a difference how a round works in a 1.75" barrel compared to a 15" barrel. Twist rates of the barrel do also affect things. These are some of the reasons we will work up a load from the low end to the high end trying to find where it works best for our needs. Many loads will work well if you are only shooting at 7 yards or less. When you start loading ammo to shoot at greater distances like 25 yards or more you start noticing minor changes a lot more. Testing of ammo should always be done shooting from a stable surface such as sand bags and rests. This it to take the human factor out of the equation as much as possible.

About the only factor I don't look for when trying to decide on a better powder is how many grains are needed per load. For the most part powder is cheap and has less effect on the total cost per round loaded than other things like bullets. Even when I use more expensive bullets (jacketed) and some powders that you use higher amounts of powder per load, I still load for less than the cost of factory ammo. I also get ammo that suits my desires rather than having to put up with what ever I can find.
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