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Old September 13, 2009, 05:21 PM   #1
B1nary Dec1mat0r
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Soon to be first time shotgun owner! Have questions

Sup my fellow gun toting Americans. I've decided to purchase a home defense shotgun for many reasons and after much research and gun handling, i've decided on this beautiful baby. I've put it on layaway at my local shop.



I chose the Remington 870 over the popular Mossberg's, Benelli's due to

A: More familiar with the Remington brand
B: Gun is used the most by police forces world wide, so that means something
C: 870 felt alot more "solid" in my hand and cocking the gun vs the Moss's or Bert's. I didn't sense a cheaper build then when I tried a Mossberg equivelent, it rattles and felt loose all over.

I've used some firearms over the years, mostly .22LR rifles. Last year, I got my first handgun, a Springfield XDm 9mm and i've had alot of fun learning how to shoot, reload, clean and basically learn up on gun handling and safety skills.

With the advent of the changes in the world and my local neighborhood, I decided it was time for something with a bit more of an intimidation factor if God forbid I ever had to use a shotgun in a home defense situation. Being that this is my first one, I obviously have some questions after all my research into the topic.

1. What things are MUST have addons for a home defense shotgun. I know alot of guys tote that keeping it simple is always better, and I agree with them. But anything in particular that would be a good add on for this gun? A fiber optic sight maybe? THe stock sight sucks pretty hard. Maybe a flashlight? Though alot of guys state thats a great way for the bad guy to target you.

2. Will the adjustable stock hold up? I've never seen a shotgun with an adjustable stock before, but I really liked that I could adjust it to my comfort as well as have a recoil spring mechanism built in. Will this stand the test of time after lots of range shooting or will it fall apart? Should I get a Remington Supercell pad to help absorb even more recoil?

3. Is plain old bird buckshot decent enough to go practice with? Its the cheapest loads around town at 100rounds at Wal-mart for $20

4. What ammo would be a good consideration for apartment dwellings? Having my own home is a bit down the road, so i'd like to know what ammo would be good for home defense with a low chance of blasting through walls into another dwelling

5. Do I need/should get a muzzle break like this guy does? Does it really improve flip and recoil?




Thanks all for any and all suggestions, comments or tips that could help me with this decision and become prepared if God forbid I have to defend myself, loved ones and home from an unwanted visitor.

Last edited by B1nary Dec1mat0r; September 14, 2009 at 12:43 AM.
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Old September 13, 2009, 05:33 PM   #2
rugerfreak
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1. Ammo and then shoot the heck out of it.
2. Don't know --don't own one or ever saw the need.
3. 00 Buck for HD---birdshot is OK for practice.
4. Smaller buckshot loads
5. No
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Old September 13, 2009, 05:40 PM   #3
COYOTE JLR
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B1nary Band1t
1. What things are MUST have addons for a home defense shotgun. I know alot of guys tote that keeping it simple is always better, and I agree with them. But anything in particular that would be a good add on for this gun? A fiber optic sight maybe? THe stock sight sucks pretty hard. Maybe a flashlight? Though alot of guys state thats a great way for the bad guy to target you.

2. Will the adjustable stock hold up? I've never seen a shotgun with an adjustable stock before, but I really liked that I could adjust it to my comfort as well as have a recoil spring mechanism built in. Will this stand the test of time after lots of range shooting or will it fall apart? Should I get a Remington Supercell pad to help absorb even more recoil?

3. Is plain old bird buckshot decent enough to go practice with? Its the cheapest loads around town at 100rounds at Wal-mart for $20

4. What ammo would be a good consideration for apartment dwellings? Having my own home is a bit down the road, so i'd like to know what ammo would be good for home defense with a low chance of blasting through walls into another dwelling

5. Do I need/should get a muzzle break like this guy does? Does it really improve flip and recoil?
1. I would be one of those that encourages you to keep it light. I've always found heavily "loaded" shotguns to seem extremely unwieldy and I think actually makes them far less useful. I think a light is a good idea. There is a good read on light at theboxotruth.com I wouldn't suggest much more other than possibly new sights.

2. The stock should hold up fine and worrying about replacing it right off the bat seems a bit odd after specifically picking out that model I would say don't worry about it and if problems do show up then consider a replacement. And recoil shouldn't be any worry. If it makes you feel better about it then get one, but I generally shoot shirtless during the summer with all shotguns and I've never had a problem with suffering from recoil.

3. Just bird shot is the best way to practice IMO. Picking out a defensive round carefully and patterning it you should do, but just for familiarizing yourself with the gun bird shot is the way to go.

4. And you're not going to find a good people stopping load that won't blow through multiple layers of dry wall. Some people will say that bird shot is the way to go, however I feel the general consensus is that going with a larger shot is better. I remember reading a fantastic article a while ago on the topic and I will try to find it for you

edit: found the link http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...p?f=7&t=109958

5. No. You don't need a muzzle break. Recoil shouldn't be so bad that you need a break. It might even increase muzzle flash for you, which I would consider to be a bigger problem than slightly more recoil. Same idea with porting, its not necessary and can even be a hindrance in low light circumstances.

Last edited by COYOTE JLR; September 13, 2009 at 05:48 PM.
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Old September 13, 2009, 07:28 PM   #4
oneounceload
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1. No add-ons necessary
2. A good pad will definitely help in absorbing recoil
3. No such thing as "bird buckshot". It is either birdshot or buckshot. Some sizes may be called the same numbers, but there is a difference.
4. Managed recoil buckshot works fine.
5. Absolutely not unless you're going for some tacticool mall ninja look.
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Old September 13, 2009, 07:42 PM   #5
B1nary Dec1mat0r
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Hmm ok, i'll skip the muzzle break then, sounds like its no good for my intended use.

Sorry for the gun noobness, i've learned alot since having my XDm 9mm the past year, but shotguns are still new to me. Can anyone elaborate or give link for me to learn and see the different types of shotgun shells and the differences. I'm aware that birdshot is a complete poor choose for HD, I learned that early on.

What suggestions do you have for a tactical light that isn't overly expensive? Also, how would I go about putting on a Tru-Glo site on the barrel with the stock aiming knob in the front? Or would ghost sites be a better option?
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Old September 13, 2009, 07:44 PM   #6
greensteelforge
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Police model of the Winchester SX-3, I believe will make that thing obsolete. I have never seen a shotgun more reliable, versatile, or easy to use. Recoil is reduced dramatically without the use of a compensator, and allows rapid fire, accurate use of 3 1/2" magnums. Before this one, I always used a pump for reliability, but never again! Also, at indoor distances of all but the largest homes, birdshot will strike like a cement truck. Penetration doesn't drop a target, rapid transfer of large amounts of kinetic energy do. A bean bag out of a 12ga 2 3/4" will damn near take you right out of your boots without even breaking skin. Pass through isn't what you want for home defense, you don't want a blood trail that leads anywhere but to the floor.

Last edited by greensteelforge; September 13, 2009 at 07:50 PM.
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Old September 13, 2009, 07:50 PM   #7
Dfariswheel
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My bit.

1. No accessories are needed.
The more you add to a shotgun, the heavier and bulkier it gets, and the SLOWER it gets.
What makes a shotgun so deadly is the speed at which it can be used. Most anything you add will slow down the speed at which you can hit the target.
Any accessory has to be given a cost-benefit analysis.
The question is: "What benefit does an accessory give that out weights the reduction in speed of use".
In shotguns "Speed kills...the bad guy".

2. The stock is probably as durable as most any other, but you may find its somewhat more clumsy and slower to use than a standard shotgun stock.
Experiment with it, and if you want, its easy to change to another type.

3. Cheap ammo is perfectly good for practice, but be aware that cheap ammo does have a reputation for causing extraction problems. Don't be surprised if the gun tends to be difficult to operate or even fail to extract with cheap stuff.
Before shooting, be sure to clean the gun out to remove the factory preservative, ESPECIALLY to scrub out the chamber with a bore brush and solvent.
Factory lubes are notorious for causing gummed up chambers and extraction problems in new guns unless cleaned before shooting.

4. As above, there is no shot that will not sail right through most any interior wall, especially in apartments.
All you can do is select an effective ammunition, and be as careful as you can if you ever have to use it for real inside.
Everyone has an opinion on shot size, but #4 buck shot is about as small as you can expect effective results with.
Note that this is not #4 BIRD SHOT which is small, this is #4 buck shot.

5. The muzzle attachment shown is the current favorite of people wanting to make their shotguns look "cool".
Its actually a SWAT team device that's used for blowing locks off doors.
These guns are loaded with a special powdered load that disintegrates without harming anyone inside.
The muzzle attachment is designed to prevent the muzzle from slipping off the door, and to vent the blast to prevent damaging the barrel.
For any other use, its useless and simply an appearance item .
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Old September 13, 2009, 07:56 PM   #8
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1. no add ons other than extended mag and that's not really nessessary
2. Don't know I'm of the keep it simple school (mine wears the stock recoil pad)
3. yes any trigger time is good.
4. 4 buck
5. no
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Old September 13, 2009, 09:09 PM   #9
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Quote:
Soon to be first time shotgun owner!
First number is shot size designation, second is the decimal diameter and third is metric diameter.

There are arguments to be made (literally hundreds can be found on any HD shotgun forum) for and against just about anything below... it's up to the end user to weed out the BS, review their specific set of circumstances and decide for themselves what will best serve their needs.

Buckshot
0000 ("quadruple-ought") .38" (9.7 mm)
000 ("triple-ought") .36" (9.1 mm)
00 ("double-ought") .33" (8.4 mm)
0 ("ought") .32" (8.1 mm)
1 .30" (7.6 mm)
2 .27" (6.9 mm)
3 .25" (6.4 mm)
4 .24" (6 mm)

Birdshot
BBB .190" (4.83 mm)
BB .180" (4.57 mm)
B .170" (4.32 mm)
1 .160" (4.06 mm)
2 .150" (3.81 mm)
3 .140" (3.56 mm)
4 .130" (3.30 mm)
5 .120" (3.05 mm)
6 .110" (2.79 mm)
7½ .095" (2.41 mm)
8 .090" (2.29 mm)
8½ .085" (2.15 mm)
9 .080" (2.03 mm)

C
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Old September 13, 2009, 09:14 PM   #10
B1nary Dec1mat0r
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Anyone have any pics or links that show the differences between different buckshot rounds? I'm a visual type of person, so forgive me but having visuals to look with the information means it will stay in my head better.
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Old September 13, 2009, 09:20 PM   #11
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Scroll about halfway down.

http://www.firearmsid.com/A_distshotpatt.htm
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Old September 13, 2009, 09:36 PM   #12
SmokeyVol
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I do not belive in dedicated "home defense" shotguns. A regular shotgun will serve for home defense and allow you to shoot skeet, trap, or game to practice. Remington is a decent manufacturer. I prefer Remington over Mossberg any day. The 870 is one of the best pump shotguns ever made.

Looks like you have too much on it already. All the mall ninja bling is just more dead weight to deal with unless you hope to scare the intuder into giving up. Too many people are watching B-grade action movies.

Don't know about the adjustable stock. I prefer a full stock with a recoil pad. Anyone using a shotgun with just a pistol grip alone is asking for a broken wrist and a poorly aimed shot. It's not a pistol.

No such thing as "bird buckshot". See commenst by others on this. Most ranges do not allow shotguns on the rifle or pistol lanes with any type of load.

It is a "muzzle brake", not "muzzle break" and you dont need one. They are called compensators on smaller arms such a as hand guns, rifles, and shotguns. Muzzle brakes are for artillery.
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Old September 13, 2009, 10:19 PM   #13
Lee Lapin
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Buy a box stock riot gun with NO add-on anything. Buying used will save you some $$$. See http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=139938987 for police trade-ins that will save you $$$ to use on ammo for practice. Call him direct, have one sent to your favorite FFL. He's good to deal with.

Only thing you need to add at that point is SKILL, and that doesn't come in a box at any price. Once you know the gun like your tongue knows the inside of your teeth, then you can start worrying about adding stuff on.

And watch these:

http://www.gunsmagazine.com/webblast870.html

http://www.gunsmagazine.com/webblastTRDS.html

Stay Safe,

lpl
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Old September 14, 2009, 12:07 AM   #14
CARGUY2244
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you need a weapon light and tritium ghost ring sights. your encounter will likely occur in the dark, so own the dark.
adjustable, collapsible, folding stocks will hold up. question is will you hold up to the those stocks. solid stocks absorb a lot more recoil.
00 buck, reduced recoil. plenty of power, more controllable. practice with your real life scenario ammo. it's not a notorious overpenetrator, but overpenetration is an i nherent risk good ballistics, so practice with it, and dont miss. that thing on the end of the barrel? sure, you can roast hot dogs over the fire with that.
personally, id get my deposit moved to an 1100 or an 11-87.
btw...isn't bertelli an olive oil???
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Old September 14, 2009, 12:38 AM   #15
Slopemeno
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In this case, less is more. The only thing that gun was missing is curb feelers.
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Old September 14, 2009, 12:43 AM   #16
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Reduced recoil buckshot is a better choice for home defense.

Have fun.
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Old September 14, 2009, 06:56 AM   #17
RoscoeC
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My first HD shotgun:



My current HD shotgun:

Attached Images
File Type: jpg IMG_1788.JPG (137.5 KB, 5828 views)
File Type: jpg IMG_1792.JPG (109.1 KB, 5799 views)
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Old September 14, 2009, 10:32 AM   #18
Evyl Robot
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Quote:
1. What things are MUST have addons for a home defense shotgun.
Ammunition. I like the tritium front beads for targeting in the dark. Example

Quote:
2. Will the adjustable stock hold up?
No personal experience, but I have some friends that have beat on theirs with good results FWIW.

Quote:
3. Is plain old bird buckshot decent enough to go practice with?
That's how I do it, but I run some buckshot through mine from time to time. Birdshot makes for pretty good practice, though.

Quote:
4. What ammo would be a good consideration for apartment dwellings? Having my own home is a bit down the road, so i'd like to know what ammo would be good for home defense with a low chance of blasting through walls into another dwelling
This is an endless topic of discussion that you will find is not short on differing opinions. My vote goes to 00 buckshot, but you will find people recommending virtually every type and variety of ammo available. My thought is that if it has enough penetration to neutralize the threat, it has enough penetration to go through many panels of sheetrock. 'Rule 4: Know your target and what is beyond it.' I know that can be challenging, but it's the best answer I can think of for the social ammo question.

Quote:
5. Do I need/should get a muzzle break like this guy does? Does it really improve flip and recoil?
Shouldn't be necessary. It looks like one more thing to get hung up on something. HD shotguns should be simple and slick, IMHO.
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Old September 14, 2009, 10:35 AM   #19
oneounceload
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There have been lots of studies on You tube, Box O Truth, etc. about shot sizes. research those, knowing that just about anything you fire will penetrate walls and you are responsible for whatever damage it may cause

Last edited by oneounceload; September 14, 2009 at 11:18 AM.
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Old September 14, 2009, 11:04 AM   #20
B1nary Dec1mat0r
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Any recommendations for add on flashlights that don't cost a kidney?
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Old September 14, 2009, 11:44 AM   #21
scorpion_tyr
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Quote:
1. What things are MUST have addons for a home defense shotgun. I know alot of guys tote that keeping it simple is always better, and I agree with them. But anything in particular that would be a good add on for this gun? A fiber optic sight maybe? THe stock sight sucks pretty hard. Maybe a flashlight? Though alot of guys state thats a great way for the bad guy to target you.
IMO, the only "MUST have" is the gun itself and ammo in the tube. The only things I would really recommend adding to the gun would be: a flashlight, a fiber optic or tritium night sight, and an elastic shell holder on the stock. If you go with the fiber optic sights be careful, the one's that just clip on will not be there for long. The recoil of the gun sends them flying after a few shots.

Quote:
2. Will the adjustable stock hold up? I've never seen a shotgun with an adjustable stock before, but I really liked that I could adjust it to my comfort as well as have a recoil spring mechanism built in. Will this stand the test of time after lots of range shooting or will it fall apart? Should I get a Remington Supercell pad to help absorb even more recoil?
Never shot or owned one with that so I don't know. Just too ugly for my personal taste, but I will admit, they do feel nice.

Quote:
3. Is plain old bird buckshot decent enough to go practice with? Its the cheapest loads around town at 100rounds at Wal-mart for $20
For the most part, yes. Just to get used to the funtioning of the weapon it's fine. I strongly suggest however that you fire off you defensive rounds ever now and then, just so you know exactly how the gun will handle with them.

Quote:
4. What ammo would be a good consideration for apartment dwellings? Having my own home is a bit down the road, so i'd like to know what ammo would be good for home defense with a low chance of blasting through walls into another dwelling
#4 BK or #1 BK and a good sense of situational awareness so you always know what's behind your target. Go ahead and assume that any shot is going right through the BG and the wall behind him. Play out all the scenarios you can think of in your head. Practice them, and figure out when would be a good time for the shotgun, and when would be a better time for the handgun.

Quote:
5. Do I need/should get a muzzle break like this guy does? Does it really improve flip and recoil?
No. Hearing the pump action, and/or starring down that big ol' barrel will be intimidating enough. You'll still have to clean up urine off your floor.
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Old September 14, 2009, 11:48 AM   #22
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Quote:
Anyone have any pics or links that show the differences between different buckshot rounds? I'm a visual type of person, so forgive me but having visuals to look with the information means it will stay in my head better.
It just so happens that I do...

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Old September 14, 2009, 12:32 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoscoeC
My first HD shotgun [COLOR="DimGray"](pic not duplicated)
My curent HD shotgun: (pic not duplicated)
Roscoe, I like your way of thinking and your present HD configuration. Less is More (The phrase as adopted by the architect Ludwig Mies van der Rohe as a precept for minimalist design).
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Old September 14, 2009, 12:32 PM   #24
SeekHer
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Nice picture but what sizes are represented in the photo...

Please note that the shot is not perfectly round and therefore will not always fly on the intended path and that and many other factors causes the spread in your pattern...

Here is one from Federal
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Old September 14, 2009, 01:20 PM   #25
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Quote:
Nice picture but what sizes are represented in the photo...
It appears that the coordinating hulls have the size markings showing.
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