The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 13, 2009, 12:59 AM   #1
Dr Raoul Duke
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2009
Location: On the Left Coast of North America
Posts: 104
Sage legal advice

I spent yestereve trying to understand what an attorney from the NRA that represented me pro-bono against my local PD when they made a "probable cause" search of my house, forcing me to open my gun safes, and seized numerous firearms without a search warrant, sent me. He forced the PD to return all of my firearms, and make financial recompense. Take this as sage legal advice, from a well-known trial-lawyer and shooter:

"One is well-advised to quickly and discretely retreating in the face of
dangerous threats, assuming retreat can be accomplished in relative safety.
There are many practical advantages to extracting oneself from threatening
situations. One is that no court has ever sent anyone to prison for
retreating!

From the standpoint of defending, in criminal court, the actions of my
client, putting forth the tedious argument that he was legally entitled to
majestically defend his position with gunfire, never giving an inch, is far
from my favorite approach. I've been in this business a long time, and I
promise you that wearisome, hair-splitting pedants do not successful
trial-lawyers make!

However, even when some sort of 'retreat' is required by law, but doing so
will likely get you killed or seriously injured, then you're just going to
have to deal with the situation as best you can, worrying about legal
ramifications later. No law, anywhere that I know of, requires one to
retreat, when doing so puts him, and/or other innocent parties, in peril.

My best advice:

(1) Adopt a personal lifestyle that deliberately avoids dangerous places
and situations
(2) Be alert and aware
(3) Exit potentially threatening circumstances early on, when you can
(4) Shoot (with precision), when you have no choice
(5) Stop shooting when threats are clearly abrogated
(6) Stay alert and get to a place of relative safety
(7) Call police at your first practical opportunity
(8) When police arrive, tell them just enough so that they understand whom
you are and what role you played
(9) Otherwise, politely insist that your lawyer be personally present
before answering questions, and thereafter
(10) Exercise your right to remain silent."

Comment: In addition, understand that whatever you do, chose not to do, or
fail to do, it won't be perfect! Everyone, from media commentators, to
investigators, to judges, to lawyers, to plaintiff's experts will wearisomely
point out where, and how, you could have done it better.

And, to one degree or another, they'll be right!

Fortunately, the law doesn't require you to be perfect. The law only
requires you to be "reasonable," whatever that means!"

Dr. Raoul Duke
Gonzo Forever
Dr Raoul Duke is offline  
Old September 13, 2009, 08:33 AM   #2
BCeagle
Member
 
Join Date: February 24, 2009
Posts: 55
(9) Otherwise, politely insist that your lawyer be personally present
before answering questions, and thereafter
(10) Exercise your right to remain silent."

I am an attorney and these are the 2 hardest things for people to understand. Even if you are completely correct in your actions, with the adrenalin after a confrontation we commonly misspeak. Always tell them you would feel more comfortable with an attorney present, because thats what you attorney always told you.

In NJ you are almost always better to retreat if you can do so safely. The law is stacked against you.
BCeagle is offline  
Old September 13, 2009, 05:57 PM   #3
danweasel
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 26, 2008
Location: Fairbanks, AK
Posts: 191
It is very important to learn, early in life, that you can beat city hall..."

Or...

"Remember, you are innocent, They are guilty."

-HST
__________________
When I came back to Dublin I was courtmartialed in my absence and sentenced to death in my absence, so I said they could shoot me in my absence.
- Brendan Behan
danweasel is offline  
Old September 13, 2009, 08:53 PM   #4
JustDreadful
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2008
Location: Sin City
Posts: 270
Quote:
represented me pro-bono against my local PD when they made a "probable cause" search of my house, forcing me to open my gun safes, and seized numerous firearms without a search warrant, sent me. He forced the PD to return all of my firearms, and make financial recompense.

Man, I'd REALLY like to hear that story...
__________________
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."

"Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge."
JustDreadful is offline  
Old September 13, 2009, 08:58 PM   #5
Lawyer Daggit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 5, 2004
Posts: 1,181
Raol Duke and B Seagle. This advice is good not only for the US but for any jurisdiction with an English legal history.

I agree strongly with the need to contact the Police early, and to exercise the right to remain silent at least until you have conferred with an experienced criminal lawyer.

Your comment about legal pedants is a particularly good one. If a client has the time and money to run a pedantic argument before an Appeal Court they may see mileage but courts of first instance tend to determine matters very much upon their facts.
Lawyer Daggit is offline  
Old September 13, 2009, 09:32 PM   #6
m&p45acp10+1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2009
Location: Central Texas
Posts: 3,323
Not excercising the right to remain silent can lead to trouble. Look at the case of a ceartian pharmacist in OKC. It has been pegged that it is easy to tell when he is lying, his lips start to move.
People have the right to remain silent, few have the ability to. It is not bad to tell the responding LEOs that you are shaken and need some time to sort thing out, and wish to speak with an attorney. As soon as you say you would like to speak with an attorney they should stop questions then, and there.
__________________
No matter how many times you do it and nothing happens it only takes something going wrong one time to kill you.
m&p45acp10+1 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:13 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.07270 seconds with 7 queries