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Old October 19, 2009, 04:46 PM   #1
ice monkey
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CCW a Canuck?

Hey did you know that Canadians (legally) living in Kansas and just about all other states for that matter can’t get a CCW! Yup they need not apply – CCW is for American citizens only. I guess Canadians just need to be fast runners lol?

Do you think this is right? Kind of goes against the whole equality for all thing no?
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Old October 19, 2009, 05:43 PM   #2
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Get a flare gun. You can shoot pepper shot shells. And I think it would be legal.

Pepper spray, and one of those stun guns too.
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Old October 19, 2009, 05:49 PM   #3
Don H
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As I recall, until last year foreign citizens could qualify for a Utah CFP. Then the question was posed about the ability to verify their record, both previous and current, in another country. In essence, American citizens were being held to a higher standard than foreign applicants (there's that whole equality thing again, no?). So the State of Utah decided that, since foreing applicants couldn't have thier status verified to the same degree that citizens can, a moratorium should be placed on the issuance of CFPs to non-citizens.
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Do you think this is right?
I think it's right that non-citizens should be held to the same standards as citizens and not given preferential treatment. If that can't be done then tough luck for the non-citizen.
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Kind of goes against the whole equality for all thing no?
Do you think non-citizens should be able to vote in U.S. elections too?
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Old October 19, 2009, 06:12 PM   #4
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Quote:
Do you think this is right?
As a matter of fact yes I do. If you want to carry a gun in this country, become an American citizen. However, if you're simply patient, I'm sure our current administration is working on making it easier for you and harder for us.:barf:
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Old October 19, 2009, 06:42 PM   #5
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The fact that non-citizens are allowed to even OWN guns is something you don't see anywhere else. Want CCW, become a citizen
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Old October 19, 2009, 07:20 PM   #6
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You can own more guns here than in you own country and you are whining about not getting a ccw. Maybe some of your socialized prescription drugs were tainted and have effected your logical thought process. J/k.

Seriously though you live here, assumingly work and/or go to school here I think you should realize the freedoms we enjoy and become a citizen.

We will gladly give Canada a bunch of liberal crybabies in a player exchange type of set up if it will help you. If not they can still take them if they want.
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Old October 19, 2009, 08:06 PM   #7
TimNelson
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canadians can get there carry permits in Pa
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Old October 19, 2009, 08:07 PM   #8
Glenn Dee
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I have a buddy. A recent transplant from England He has a CCW in Florida. He's not a citizen ... yet but he is a legal alien.. lol if there is such a term.
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Old October 19, 2009, 08:16 PM   #9
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he is a legal alien.. lol if there is such a term.
Yes, they're called resident aliens. They have gone through the appropriate administrative hoops to obtain long-term or permanent visas, which are available for students, certain classes of employees, etc.

As far as a foreign national obtaining a CCW, that's up to each state in how it administers its CCW provisions. If you're really deadset on carrying concealed, move to a state which permits CCW issuance to foreign nationals. Otherwise, stop whining and be thankful you are a guest in a nation which provides greater firearms accessibility and rights to you than you have in your own home nation.
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Old October 19, 2009, 09:45 PM   #10
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As a U.S. citizen in good standing, I am offended that Canada will not issue me a handgun permit.

What's worse is that Cuba turned me down as well.
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Old October 20, 2009, 12:41 AM   #11
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As a U.S. citizen in good standing, I am offended that Canada will not issue me a handgun permit.
Good point.

Will Canada issue a us citizen a CCW in Canada? Heck, will Canada issue a Canadian citizen a CCW?

Maybe we should issue Mexican citizens a CCW also.

Not trying to be sarcastic, but your almost putting in a complaint were you have no say as a non US citizen.

Tell your local congressman about your problem!

I didn't even know you guest's of or fine (Not perfect) country could even own a gun here.

If you shoot somebody here, and then fly back to Canada, expedition must be a real pain that cost the US tax payer a pretty penny not to mention the time it might take.
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Old October 20, 2009, 05:54 AM   #12
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I have family in the Philippines and just came back from there. The standards for me to own a gun (I can't) are ridiculous. Basically, if I get caught with a concealed gun, I will spend the rest of my life behind bars.
I told my wife we could move back to the PI when my eye-sight fails and I can no longer shoot.

Does anyone know of a country that is gun friendly to foreigners? Besides ours.
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Old October 20, 2009, 06:49 AM   #13
m.p.driver
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I think that Iraq is gun friendly to foreigners.Really i think its a great idea arming illegals,and paying for their medical,and giving them driver licenses.After all they are guaranteed their rights under the Constitution,no what a minute that only covers AMERICANS.
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Old October 20, 2009, 08:40 AM   #14
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Pretty easy one, if you want all the freedoms being an American comes with, become an American.

Andy
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Old October 20, 2009, 11:08 AM   #15
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Pretty easy one, if you want all the freedoms being an American comes with, become an American.
You obviously haven't personally tried to become one.

The USCIS is in no hurry to process naturalization requests, even for longtime legal permanent residents from "nice" countries such as Canada.

I personally wish more states would be willing to issue CHLs to legal permanent residents. This could be decided by the courts depending on the outcome of NRA v. Chicago.
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Old October 20, 2009, 12:28 PM   #16
Don H
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Uncle Buck,

I believe Panama is gun-friendly to non-citizens.

http://www.panamalaw.org/panama_gun_laws.html
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Old October 20, 2009, 02:36 PM   #17
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Let's speak to the issue of whether non-citizens should have the ability to get a permit or license. No need to get personal, folks.

The reasonable question is whether resident aliens should be able to.

If you want to debate health care, licenses or immigration policies - we aren't the venue.
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Old October 20, 2009, 03:37 PM   #18
Hugh Damright
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I've been wondering if there could be a 14th Amendment problem with such laws ... from what I've read of the legislative history of the 14th, the equal protection clause was specifically intended to mean that laws regarding the protection of person and property, such as gun laws, must result in equal protection and benefit ... so if a State issues CCW permits, might this mean that they'd have to issue them to anyone within the State, citizen or not?
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Old October 20, 2009, 04:10 PM   #19
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We will gladly give Canada a bunch of liberal crybabies in a player exchange type of set up if it will help you. If not they can still take them if they want.
Jeez, people! The guy asked a simple question. It doesn't need to come to this, and it doesn't reflect very well on us.

I mean, without Canada, we wouldn't have Neil Young, Joni Mitchell, the McKenzie Brothers, John Candy, Wayne Gretzky or Rush. What kind of a world would that be?

In all seriousness, the laws for CCW vary from state to state. Resident aliens can get permits in Georgia and Florida. IIRC, there are provisions in Tennessee and Kentucky as well.

Unfortunately, Kansas as a state is new to the concept of issuing carry permits, and their system is still working out the kinks. Contact local advocacy groups and see if they can get legislation sponsored in the state legislature to change the matter.

I don't know of any offhand, but Google mentions these folks. Wouldn't hurt to drop them an email.

Edit: Clayton Cramer brings up an interesting point (actually, he brings up many). If the Supreme Court decides to incorporate the 2nd Amendment next year, then this section becomes germane to your situation:
Quote:
(...) nor shall any State deprive any person [not just "citizens" specified in the first clause] of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
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Last edited by Tom Servo; October 21, 2009 at 12:43 AM.
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Old October 22, 2009, 10:21 PM   #20
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Should be a reciprocity thing. We cant carry there-they should NOT be carrying here.
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Old October 22, 2009, 11:20 PM   #21
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Should be a reciprocity thing. We cant carry there-they should NOT be carrying here.
I disagree.

Just because I can't carry there doesn't mean that their citizens should be denied the right of self-defense here. It's not the OP's fault that the Canadian government doesn't recognize certain rights. I fail to see what good it would do for us to follow suit.
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Old October 23, 2009, 04:52 AM   #22
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Tom is absolutely right... America was born on the principle

that ALL people have rights, not just those that were born here or take an oath to be a citizen.

I can understand the problem with the back ground check from a government bureaucracy standpoint.

If they live in S.C., U.S. citizen or not, they can get a permit.
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Old October 23, 2009, 10:41 AM   #23
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Tom Servo


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Just because I can't carry there doesn't mean that their citizens should be denied the right of self-defense here. It's not the OP's fault that the Canadian government doesn't recognize certain rights. I fail to see what good it would do for us to follow suit.

That just open's a whole new can of worm's.
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Old October 23, 2009, 11:26 AM   #24
Uncle Buck
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I have been thinking about this since I first read it a few days ago. Maybe we should give legal aliens the right to CC. My thoughts on this are based on the ethnic enclaves that develop in a lot of cities.

1. There are Chinese gangs in a lot of the 'China Towns' around the United States. Maybe if a few of these residents where allowed to carry the crime rate would drop. (again, I am too lazy to research the stat's on violent crime in these neighborhoods verses other neighborhoods in which we are allowed to defend ourselves.)
2. The same goes for other ethnic areas such a Russians, Vietnamese, Korean, etc, etc, etc... (I do not think there are many Canadian enclaves here in the U.S., but who knows.)
3. If an when these people return to their countries of birth, it is just one more freedom they give up. Maybe it would start a small movement in their countries of birth.
4. Legal Aliens have already shown they have followed the laws by becoming legal (No small task in itself). A legal alien deserves every protection under the constitution and our laws. Most legal aliens that I know are in this country not just to make money, but because they truly love this country. (My wife and her sisters can recite the three branches of the government, what the branches are supposed to do, how the election process works and a myriad of other details of our country's' birth that most of us have long since forgotten.)

I vote to give them the right to concealed carry.
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Old October 23, 2009, 11:55 AM   #25
Tom Servo
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That just open's a whole new can of worm's.
How so? Resident aliens (and in some cases, non-resident aliens) can own guns here. In many states, they can get carry permits. So far as I recall, none of them have caused any problems.
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