The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Hunt

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old September 9, 2009, 11:13 PM   #1
HistoryJunkie
Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2009
Posts: 54
New To Firearms, and Hunting

Hey everyone I just joined the forum and am impressed by all the different insightful posts. Soon I'm looking at trying to purchase my first gun, and want to know some suggestions you guys may have for me. My perimeters are that it has to be a rifle, relatively cheap, and relatively cheap to shoot. The only thing I can really use this rifle for is hunting coyotes and range time, because I live in IL which prohibits rifle for deer hunting. My budget is >$300 and I am not opposed to buying older firearms (ww2 era and such). I've done some research on inexpensive guns and i've thought about getting a Mosin-Nagant rifle. Suggestions for other decent inexpensive firearms would be great. Thank you.
HistoryJunkie is offline  
Old September 9, 2009, 11:24 PM   #2
Yellowfin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2007
Location: West Upstate NY
Posts: 2,303
Mosin Nagants are pretty good along those lines, as are Savage 110's, Marlin 336, and possibly a Mauser in 8mm as you can find 8mm surplus ammo pretty cheap these days.
__________________
Students for Concealed Carry on Campus http://www.concealedcampus.org
New York gun owners unite! Join now! http://www.nyshooters.net
May Issue is the new Separate but Equal.
Yellowfin is offline  
Old September 9, 2009, 11:54 PM   #3
COYOTE JLR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2009
Location: Washington Coast
Posts: 127
You could always try a single shot Rossi, NEF, etc. They're available in a variety of calibers and are fairly reliable in the accuracy department.
COYOTE JLR is offline  
Old September 10, 2009, 12:06 AM   #4
HistoryJunkie
Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2009
Posts: 54
The idea of single shot I guess kinda scares me. Bolt action of the Nagant is a little better, and probably more accurate than a semi-auto. I don't believe I'd get a second opportunity for a shot in a hunting situation anyways. For my purpose so far though the Nagant seems practicial. I've read plenty of reviews saying it has pretty good accuracy at fair range. Also you can buy a 440 round case of ammo for around $85, so i guess that's pretty cheap for ammo. Any more suggestions for decent cheap rifles? I'm kinda partial to the historical rifles. Anyone know if .303 British for Enfield is available at a decent price in US?
HistoryJunkie is offline  
Old September 10, 2009, 12:26 AM   #5
COYOTE JLR
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 26, 2009
Location: Washington Coast
Posts: 127
I would consider it to be a very lucky find if you located 440 rounds for $85. About the cheapest I've seen in a while was $100 for 440. Which is still a great deal, but I don't want you to be disappointed.

I know of a .303 for sale in Washington for $175. I don't know if he'd be willing to ship though.

I've also been kind of partial to the K31s. Though the ammo is not so common. You can still find decent deals for it online though. Those can range anywhere from $250 to $500+.

And a bolt action doesn't necessitate accuracy. While a Mosin will most likely be plenty for your needs, I wouldn't expect it to be shooting tiny groups either. There are plenty of modern semi autos that will shoot rings around any Mosin. Though those are probably going to be out of your price range.

An SKS is a decent semi auto that would fit your budget though. The majority of them aren't particularly accurate, but they'll shoot minute of coyote all day. And they're a blast. Ammo is cheap for them.

Another avenue you might be interested in pursuing would be the old 8mm Mausers. Those can be found for relatively cheap and the ammo is cheap too. Again I know of one in Washington for $180, but don't know if they'll ship.

I'm in no way trying to steer you away from Mosins either. I think that would be a fine choice and would probably be the simplest for you, but I like throwing around other ideas too.
COYOTE JLR is offline  
Old September 10, 2009, 01:31 AM   #6
Buzzcook
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 29, 2007
Location: Everett, WA
Posts: 5,630
$300 seriously limits your options. Start browsing used gun stores and looking in the paper.

A lot also depends on how you will be hunting those coyotes. If you are close enough a shotgun or .22mag will do the job. That would save you a bunch of money.

I don't think much of a Nagant as a first rifle. Too much recoil, crude sights and they just aren't that accurate.

You should reconsider getting a single shot such as this
http://gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewIte...Item=138680785

surplus .223 and .308 ammo is available and you can find several rifles chambered for those rounds.
Buzzcook is offline  
Old September 10, 2009, 02:25 AM   #7
HistoryJunkie
Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2009
Posts: 54
Yeah it is a bummer being limited to $300 but I'm pretty broke at the moment. Also, it is my first gun so I don't want to over-commit to it. I wouldn't be using a scope or anything for whatever rifle I purchase, so I'm not opposed to iron sights. Actually its the only thing I've ever used with any effectiveness. Honestly I have no idea how to set a scope. Single shot rifles do offer a pretty cheap alternative, but for whatever reason I'm not comfortable with a single shot rifle. I like the idea of having a magazine I guess. Also it allows me to make a second shot in the event of an animal coming at me. Obviously not the idea situation with a bolt action either, but still not as bad as single shot. I wouldn't like anything to be close enough to me to have to whack it with my machete instead of shoot it. Another reason that I neglect single shot rifles is that my aim isn't that good. I haven't shot many guns, so I don't expect it to be. Not to mention it'd be really annoying spending time at a range reloading my rifle after each shot.
HistoryJunkie is offline  
Old September 10, 2009, 05:53 AM   #8
taylorce1
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2005
Location: On the Santa Fe Trail
Posts: 5,509
I agree look used and look for rifles with iron sights that way you can shoot them until you get enough money together for a scope. New rifles to look at besides the H&R, NEF, and Rossi single shots are Marlin XL7 and Stevens 200. New both these rifles are right at the $300 mark so if you can find a used one, you could get it with a scope for around that. If you buy new these rifles come without sights so you would have to pony up extra money for mounts and optics.

Check right here on the forums as here is a great starter coyote rifle; http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...6amp%3BR+handi
I don't know if it is still available but you would have to find an FFL to do the transfer. Go to Gunbroker.com and use their links to find an FFL in your area that does the transfers. My FFL does them for $15 on rifles and shotguns.
taylorce1 is offline  
Old September 10, 2009, 05:55 AM   #9
JagFarlane
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 7, 2008
Posts: 282
Hmmmm so what sort of ranges do you anticipate being comfortable to shoot? You admit to not being a great shot, which is good, a lot of people take a long time to admit that. If you're willing to stay within 50, maybe 100yds depending on how good you get, you could try a Savage 93F. Its a bolt action rifle, chambered in .22WMR, 5 round mag, and comes with Accu-trigger. NIB MSRP is $240.
__________________
Too many to list...enjoy em all!
JagFarlane is offline  
Old September 10, 2009, 06:52 AM   #10
hornady
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 6, 2009
Location: SWPA
Posts: 428
Just me but I have seen a lot of Guys go the really cheap rout and regret it .As said above the new Marlin XL7 and the Stevens 200 are good rifles in the $300.00 range. And for yotes the 223 is a good cheap round. The old Military rifles were not made for great accuracy. And hitting a running coyote at 75 yards is no easy task
hornady is offline  
Old September 10, 2009, 08:00 AM   #11
simonkenton
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 25, 2008
Posts: 891
There are many different types of Mosin Nagants.
The M44 is a cheapo carbine made by communists, it has a bayonet attached!
Supposedly more accurate with the bayonet extended, and I am not making that up. But it is not accurate at long range, it was designed for the first Commie to carry, and when he was shot down 40 yards from the American lines, the second Commie, who was unarmed, and who probably had never fired a rifle in his life, would run up and pick up the rifle!

On the other hand, some Mosin Nagants were specifically designed for accurate long range shooting.
The Finnish M39 is one such rifle.
The Finns were very serious about marksmanship, they had it reversed from the Commies, the Finns had lots of guns and ammo, but few soldiers. They had to build accurate rifles and make every shot count.
The highest-scoring sniper ever was a Finn, Simo Haya killed 534 Russians with an iron sighted Finnish Mosin Nagant, average range 400 meters.

If Simo can shoot a Russkie at 400 meters, you can shoot a coyote at 100 yards.
The Finnish Mosins are the only Mosin Nagants with screw-adjustable front sights.
The Finnish M39 fits your budget.

Check empirearms.com, they always have a good Finn Mosin for sale.
If not a M39, you might get a deal on a M28, or a M28-30, both are very similar to the M39. The M28-30 is the rifle that Simo Haya used.
simonkenton is offline  
Old September 10, 2009, 09:05 AM   #12
simonkenton
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 25, 2008
Posts: 891
Another rifle you might consider is the Swedish Mauser.
This is the most accurate military Mauser ever made.
These rifles are just beautiful, I have 4 of them.
You couldn't do better for an iron sighted coyote rifle.
Like the Swiss, the Swedes took a pass on the wars of the 20th century, so hardly any Swede Mausers have seen combat.

You might find one for $300 if you look around. I have never heard of anyone getting a Swedish Mauser and complaining that the rifle was not accurate.

You can get milsurp ammo for 37 cents a shot.

http://www.samcoglobal.com/Ammunition.html

It says "slightly corroded," don't worry, this is just surface tarnish, this stuff shoots great.
It is some of the finest military surplus ammo ever made, the Swedes were like the Finns, lots of guns and ammo, no troops to spare, they wanted to make every shot count.
Also, this is the only European milsurp rifle ammo I have ever heard of that is non corrosive.

Plus, those green battle sleeves of 200 rounds look cool.
simonkenton is offline  
Old September 10, 2009, 09:11 AM   #13
hogdogs
Staff In Memoriam
 
Join Date: October 31, 2007
Location: Western Florida panhandle
Posts: 11,069
http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/21578
Brand new for $317
...Unless it has to be milsurp.

Brent
hogdogs is offline  
Old September 10, 2009, 09:15 AM   #14
a7mmnut
Junior member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2009
Location: NC Foothills
Posts: 1,150
I'd also caution against Nagants, mostly due to my experiences with several of them. A lot of steel jacket ammo with corrosive primers have been fired through a lot of them. You need to really inspect the bores well. Also, the safety lever is very difficult to manage in a quick minute. If you want to rely on a repeating bolt gun, don't leave out the new Stevens 200 for about $279, and the newer Marlin that runs around $350.

-7-
a7mmnut is offline  
Old September 10, 2009, 12:16 PM   #15
simonkenton
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 25, 2008
Posts: 891
I certainly go along with that complaint, the Mosin safety is a bizarre device.
Very difficult to use.

All the WW2 rifles were shooting corrosive ammo, and the troops knew how to clean them. If cleaned properly, the bore will be pristine.
Any rifle from this era should be inspected carefully, of course, since the war some goober may have gotten hold of it and not cleaned it properly. Or, certainly, if a troop fired off twenty shots one day, and got killed before he cleaned his rifle, that rifle may have a ruined bore.

If empire arms tell you the rifle has a good bore you can take it to the bank.
Plus, empire has a no questions asked returns policy, if you don't like the rifle, send it back for a full refund.
simonkenton is offline  
Old September 10, 2009, 12:22 PM   #16
GeauxTide
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 20, 2009
Location: Helena, AL
Posts: 3,080
Quote:
Also you can buy a 440 round case of ammo for around $85, so i guess that's pretty cheap for ammo.
That would not be hunting ammo. Find a good, used bolt in 308. You can shoot mil-crap and still find reasonable hunting cartridges.
GeauxTide is offline  
Old September 10, 2009, 01:21 PM   #17
fast-eddie
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 10, 2009
Location: Tigard Or,
Posts: 342
If you go with a Mosin for your first rifle, then buy the cheepie muzzle brake and but pad from amazon. Use these until you get used to the recoil and the rifle and so you don't develope a flinch. In fact you can buy 5 stripper clips,a cheap rail scope mount and muzzle break for like $15. A friend sold me his Bubba'd M44 with that stuff installed, and the brake works.
fast-eddie is offline  
Old September 10, 2009, 03:23 PM   #18
HistoryJunkie
Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2009
Posts: 54
Thanks for all the input in general, and especially about the Nagant. I guess for me using it would mostly be just for fun and targets. So far the cheapest one I've found has been like $79.99. I'd say that's a pretty fair price for a rifle. Also for me cleaning isn't an issue because I don't mind taking the extra 5 minutes to save some money. Also since most of my shooting would probably be at targets, I have nothing against mil-surp ammo. Ideally I'd like to have something semi-auto in .223, but that would be far out of my price range. Unfortunately it seems that almost anything in .223 caliber is much higher priced than relative calibers. So far(aside from a .22 LR or something) the Nagant has the cheapest ammo per shot of any rifle I have looked at. This is online though and I still need to look at ammo in my area. Anyone know of any gun shows maybe in Northern Illinois?
HistoryJunkie is offline  
Old September 11, 2009, 04:35 AM   #19
zombieslayer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,183
well, a bit off topic but theres an abundance of factory bulk paks of 223 all aver florida!!!! but everyone should have a mosin nagant of any flavor and a couple 440 round packs!!
zombieslayer is offline  
Old September 11, 2009, 03:54 PM   #20
HistoryJunkie
Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2009
Posts: 54
Lol on a bit of a humorous note, with the nagant anything I shoot at close range would be fried by the fireball if I miss =p. In regards to the abundance of .223, I'll have to check around up here. I live in a small town, they don't even sell ammo here I don't think. It's like 15 miles to the nearest place to buy ammo, so I'll have a lot of shopping around to do.
HistoryJunkie is offline  
Old September 11, 2009, 04:57 PM   #21
HistoryJunkie
Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2009
Posts: 54
I may have found 7.62x54r non corrosive in bulk?

May need help validating this, but it'd be awesome if it was true. This is bulgarian surplus ammo, 149 grain, FMJ, and also claim to be non-corrosive. Berdian primed, not sure what that means. Like I said, new to the world of firearms. 880 rounds for $170. or 440 rounds for $90. Here's the link. http://www.sportsmansguide.com/net/c....aspx?a=465896
HistoryJunkie is offline  
Old September 11, 2009, 05:49 PM   #22
zombieslayer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 11, 2009
Location: Florida
Posts: 3,183
Not sure about corrosiveness, but that ammo used to be a lil cheaper, still a very low budget way of soing some shooting, and the gun will destroy anything in front of it, should you need to fire a shot in anger
zombieslayer is offline  
Old September 13, 2009, 10:40 PM   #23
zahnzieh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2006
Posts: 206
I got nothing against Russian fireams but there are alot of K98 Mausers floating around out there for around $200 (Russian capture imports). If you clean all the old cruddy cosmoline out of them you might find them to be quality rifles, great shooters. Mauser actions are still the gold standard for bolt actions. Yugoslavian and Czech mausers can also be had cheaply. I also reside in Illinois (northern) - check out website for rGUNS.
zahnzieh is offline  
Old September 13, 2009, 10:54 PM   #24
zahnzieh
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 19, 2006
Posts: 206
p.p.s. ; Kane county gunshow runs at the Kane county fairgrounds in the fall and winter. I think its the 2nd Sunday of every month from 8am-1pm - located in St. Charles illinois. Check out their website. Hope this helps
zahnzieh is offline  
Old September 13, 2009, 11:50 PM   #25
HistoryJunkie
Member
 
Join Date: September 9, 2009
Posts: 54
Sounds great. Yeah I've checked out the Mausers as well and they also seem to be decent, fair priced rifles. The 8mm ammo is a bit more expensive I think than 7.62x54r, but not by much. In general most of the 98k rifles are more expensive than Nagants as well. Which gun has a stronger punch, 98k or Mosin-Nagant? I also would need to figure out the availability of 8mm ammo locally. I'm waiting for my FOID card to come in the mail so I can't go out to gun shops yet and look at ammo and stuff. Since you live in Illinois, you are fully aware of how much Illinois hates on gun owners and hunters. Not being able to hunt deer with a rifle really sucks!
HistoryJunkie is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:09 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13716 seconds with 7 queries