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Old September 6, 2009, 11:24 PM   #1
BoneDigger
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I learned my lesson about hogs tonight! (dead animal picture inside)

For all of those, "What caliber for defense against pigs" posts, here's one example.

Tonight I killed two hogs with my compound bow. The second hog was approximately 250 lbs "on the hoof." I did not give hog #2 enought time to expire on his own and approached him after approximately 20 minutes. At 10 yards I stopped and watched. No movement at all. The next step broke a twig and this hog jumped up and ran straight at me! He got to within 5 yards and stopped and started growling (yes, hogs growl). I was lucky he stopped when he did. I grabbed my Smith and Wesson M&P 9mm and aimed right between the eyes... BLAM! There is no way I miss at 5 yards. The 9mm didn't even phase this hog. I pulled the trigger again, BLAM! Again, no luck. Perhaps it was the noise, I'm not sure, but the hog turns and runs maybe 30 yards then falls over. I nocked another arrow and put it through his heart. That was the end of hog #2.

I felt around on the hog's head and found BOTH 9mm bullets under the skin. Although it may give you a warm and fuzzy feeling to just have a gun on your hip, make sure it's a gun that is up to the task. If this hog had charged the rest of the way, that 9mm WOULD NOT have stopped him. I have a new .44 mag redhawk but I'm waiting on the holster to arrive. Although a .22 mag/9mm/etc. may kill a pig when he is in a pen, a charging pig is a totally different beast. If you want to protect yourself, use the right tool.

I feel completely confident in a 9mm for stopping 2-legged predators. But, never again will I feel warm and fuzzy over a 9mm while in the woods. From now on, my .44 mag will be with me. I was lucky tonight!

I was using Hornady 147 grain TAP ammo (JHP).

In the following picture, the white area near the hogs eye was one of the 9mm holes.

Pig #2:



Todd

Last edited by BoneDigger; September 7, 2009 at 08:32 AM.
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Old September 6, 2009, 11:34 PM   #2
Lost Sheep
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Right tool for the job.

You are right. Right tool for the job.

http://forums.accuratereloading.com/...43&m=236106768
or, if the link does not work, paste this into your browser
forums.accuratereloading.com/eve/forums?a=tpc&f=2911043&m=236106768

That is not me. I just kept the link for reference.

Congratulations on a successful hunt. You bowhunters have guts.

Lost Sheep
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Old September 6, 2009, 11:38 PM   #3
hoytinak
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Yeah if I was using a handgun on hogs I'd feel be using my .357mag (GP100) but never used a handgun, always used my SKS.
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Old September 6, 2009, 11:44 PM   #4
srt 10 jimbo
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I use my Marlin 336 .35 cal. works good on hogs
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Old September 6, 2009, 11:50 PM   #5
DasFriek
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Since im a semi auto kinda guy i think the 10mm loaded with DoubleTaps would do rather well.
Caliber : 10mm
Bullet : 230gr Wide Flat Nose Gas Check Hardcast
Ballistics : 1120fps/ 641 ft./lbs. - Glock 20

460 Rowland 230 Grain Full Metal Jacket
Muzzle Velocity: 1250 fps
Muzzle Energy: 798 ft. lbs.


If guys in the know dont think that would do,i suppose its on to the .44mag
A pigs skull would seem pretty hard to get almost anything threw it.
.357 do ok on them?

I wouldnt mind carrying those .460 Rowlands in the woods,and mabey HD in my 1911. I wouldnt much expect to get a very accurate second shot but with that round you shouldnt need 2.
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Old September 6, 2009, 11:54 PM   #6
hoytinak
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Quote:
.357 do ok on them?
Does great around here. Two guys I work with hunt hogs ALOT and they both use nothing but their 4" GP100. They laughed at me the first time I went with them and brought my SKS (wondering why I brought an "assault rifle"), they thought I'd use my GP100 as well but I've always used the SKS so that's what I stick with.
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Old September 7, 2009, 03:51 AM   #7
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Yep, that T34 angled skull really is hard to penetrate.
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Old September 7, 2009, 04:14 AM   #8
stickhauler
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Been There, Done That..

The last "hogs" I hunted was years ago in Arkansas, with a .357 magnum, and my first shot was total crap. I made the kill from up a tree that old boar ran my young overconfident a&*. Not a warm and fuzzy feeling, I really thought he was gonna knock me out of the tree and have fun with me before he killed my egotistical butt. Taught me real quick to learn proper placement, and always use the proper tool for the job.
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Old September 7, 2009, 07:07 AM   #9
Daryl
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The 9mm never impressed me much as a hunting cartridge.

No hogs here, but I usually carry a heavy loaded .45 Colt (300 gr bullet/1250 fps) when I'm in country that holds critters that might need killing in a bad way. I have a lot of confidence in both the loads I use in it, and my ability to use them.

No 9mm pistols for me in the hills.

Daryl
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Old September 7, 2009, 08:42 AM   #10
CWPinSC
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Don't you know to not shoot at a hog's head? The skull is sloped and about a half inch thick. Even a .44 mag. would have a hard time handling that.

I don't think the failure of a 9mm to stop a hog discounts it as a PD caliber against humans.
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Old September 7, 2009, 08:57 AM   #11
Tom2
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Wonder if these Fiocchi 357's would be able to punch thru. They are FMJ pointed bullets 142 grains. Well actually cone shaped and a flat on the end of about 1/8 inch. Not that I have any opportunity to try this in the near future, no wild hogs in this state that I know of.
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Old September 7, 2009, 09:17 AM   #12
BoneDigger
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CWP, yes I agree with you on both accounts. First off, I still intend to use my 9mm as a self defense gun. I carry one of my two 9mm daily here in Texas.

Regarding shooting the pig in the head. If I were hunting this pig I of course could have taken some other shot. I, first off, would never hunt with a 9mm anyway, and secondly I was being CHARGED by the hog, which means he had his head down and was heading toward me. Exactly where do you think I could have shot him aside from the head? I agree they have a thick skull, but you have to take what is given when in a situation like this, right?

I honestly believe that a .357 loaded with a hot (Buffalo Bore) solid metal jacket would have done the trick splendidly. But, from now on I will have my .44 mag with me.

Again, I am not arguing that the 9mm is not a good human stopper. I carry mine daily for that purpose. But, for a defense situation against pigs it just simply doesn't cut it.

Todd
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Old September 7, 2009, 09:47 AM   #13
jakeg823
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a buddy of mine uses his .17 hmr, shoots em right behind the ear...not handy in this situation though ha. i've also heard of 9mm taking hogs before, but it was also from the side, and w/ extreme shock ammo
http://www.gunblast.com/ExtremeShock.htm
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Old September 7, 2009, 10:05 AM   #14
CraigC
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You don't need armor piercing rounds to penetrate a hog's skull but you do need a proper bullet. A standard weight cast bullet at 1100-1200fps will do the trick every time. The 9mm need not apply.
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Old September 7, 2009, 10:10 AM   #15
hardluk1
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Good tread. This does bring to light just how tough a pig can be. If all i had was a 9mm it would have some kind of fmj in it for piggies. I would rather have my 357 with hard cast 180gr. That will punch a nice hole from any angle but you may have to track them, maybe. Hp rounds work well enough on a side shot but i don't want to trust them up close where your starting to look for trees to climb. Be a better shot with that bow and give them time to die. They do work well.
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Old September 7, 2009, 10:19 AM   #16
TonsofOregonBrass
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nice thread

very nice thread, I am surprised it hasn't turned into this cal or that cal is best.

I wish we had wild hogs here to hunt. if i hunted hogs around here the farmers would get pretty mad.
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Old September 7, 2009, 10:57 AM   #17
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I've never hunted hog before but on a thick tuff skinned creature like a hog wouldn't it be better to use FMJ or other hard bullets. I wouldn't think a HP would get the proper penetration.On varmint they use softer bullets to get the expansion without over penetration so you think the opposite would hold true on a tuff skinned creature.
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Old September 7, 2009, 03:38 PM   #18
Jim March
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357 is allegedly borderline for the task, and size-of-piggie limited unless you're a DAMN good shot.

No personal experience yet but all source I've read say that 357 wheelguns can work, but only with heavy hardcast loaded hot as they'll go. Shop with Buffalo Bore, Grizzly Ammo or Doubletap for factory specimens.
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Old September 7, 2009, 05:21 PM   #19
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I have to agree with a few of the others. I was a guide for elk and deer for 9 years and I study terminal ballistics. I have never shot but 1 large hog so my experence is limited, that being said I have witnessed hundreds of animals shot. I came to some conclusion from experence. First and foremost of all the failures is marksmanship, not the case here as it appears you places the shots well. Second failure were due to the wrong bullet fot the situation. I know quite a few bear guides that detest hollow point bullet from a handgun. They experence the same failure with even 44 magnum. I would like to know how your 9mm loaded with 147 grain fmj,s would have done. An idea would be to experiment with your next hog hunt. Even if the pig is dead try the exact shots with you 9mm with fmj loads and let us know how it did. Nothing trumps experence and you have us at a disadvantge.
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Old September 7, 2009, 05:22 PM   #20
Tom2
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Presumably he now has a couple of hog skulls to use for tests!
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Old September 7, 2009, 05:51 PM   #21
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I have to agree that if 147gr FMJs were used it likely would have punched through the skull. And of course there's 9mm +P ammo as well.

I also agree that right tool for the job is a must! Glad to hear that the hog didn't "get you".

Cheers,
Oly
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Old September 7, 2009, 06:16 PM   #22
BillCA
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The .41 Magnum is a great pig gun. I think it's slightly better than the .44 only because the recoil is slightly less and you can get back on target faster. That's mighty important when that tusked freight train is bearing down on you.

A 210gr solid at between 1250 and 1300 fps will usually penetrate the skull and then some. Looks like the pig ran straight into an anvil. A hard case 220gr LSWC-GC at 1200 fps works too, even through the sides if you do your part.

Never underestimate the toughness of a pig. Treat it like you would any carnivore. A friend of mine used his Ruger SA .44 on a hunt and found a nice pig just out of the brush at 20 yards, slightly downslope. He fired and the pig jerked, ran six feet, fell over and stopped. As soon as ol' Duane stepped out of the brush, Mr. Piggie jumped up and charged. Duane couldn't get off a shot - forgot it was a single action - and ended up in a tree. After his hunting partner put the pig down, they found Duane had missed his shot (he was sighted in at 50 yards, not 20 and had never fired downslope before). The next year Duane's hunting partner was gored in the thigh after approaching a pig he hit in the head with a 180g .357 round around 30 yards out.
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Old September 7, 2009, 07:45 PM   #23
Double Naught Spy
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Well, you got your stop, LOL. Glad it worked out well.

You might have been a bet better with ball ammo...or maybe not.
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Old September 7, 2009, 07:55 PM   #24
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The bare minimum handgun for hogs IMHO is a .357 Magnum loaded with heavy (180grn or more) non-expanding bullets or a 10mm Auto loaded similarly. I would feel much more comfortable with a .41 Magnum, .44 Magnum, or heavy-loaded .45 Long Colt and more comfortable still with a .45-70 lever-gun with hardcast 405grn+ bullets or a 12ga shotgun full of hardcast slugs.
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Old September 7, 2009, 08:10 PM   #25
BoneDigger
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Well...

I absolutely agree with all of you that a hardcast 9mm bullet "probably" would have done a better job of penetrating the skull. I strapped on the 9mm before the hunt as more of an afterthough than really esxpecting to USE it. It was loaded with my typical defense loads; I didn't buy anything specifically for this situation.

Now, seeing as my new Redhawk will be my hog defense gun, it will indeed be loaded with hardcast bullets, loaded HOT.

If I can find some cheap hardcast bullets, I'll buy some and do a little test with my next kill. If anyone wants to send me a few just for this test, feel free! :^)

Todd
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