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Old September 6, 2009, 09:04 PM   #1
newguy07
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drawing techniques

I have been pocket carrying a 357/38 revolver and recently purchased a taurus 24/7 pro c .40 and have a fobus paddle holster on the way. To conceal this it will obviously be kept under my shirt. So what is the proper technique to draw from this position?
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Old September 6, 2009, 09:19 PM   #2
Nnobby45
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You lift up the shirt with one hand and draw with the other. Good way to get shot unless you practice a lot and get good at it.

I'm a fan of the vest, or other outer garment to conceal the gun. Left open, it's fast and easy to learn. Not the case with everyone, but it fits right in to my clothing style. Still should be practiced a great deal. A smooth 1 sec draw (not from the timer) is easy to achieve.
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Old September 7, 2009, 12:43 AM   #3
Dannyl
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While I fully agree with Nnobby45, one more thing to practice is drawing single handed, which you may have to do in various circumstances (worst case is while fending off an agressor with your other hand for example).

To do this:
1. point your thumb up and hold it a bit rigid.
2. use your thumb to hook your shirt and lift it up, it helps if you put some pressure agains your boddy, while moving the hand up and back so as to expose the gun and bring your hand above it.
3.once you have lifted the shirt high enough, reach down and grasp your gun, now you are ready to draw.

Practice both ways (two hands, one hand)

Remember to practice this with a weapon that you have personally unloaded before practicing.

Also remember to keep your finger off the trigger until the muzzle is pointed towards your intended target.


Last, I stronlgy recommend that you find a good instructor and do a course (or more) you can get a bit of advise from the net, but this kind of training you must get in person, from a suitably quailified person.



Brgds,

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Last edited by Dannyl; September 7, 2009 at 03:40 AM.
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Old September 7, 2009, 02:31 AM   #4
Frank Ettin
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I agree with Nnobby45 that's it's better to use something like an open vest as a cover garment than a shirt.

And I also agree with Dannyl that some instruction from a qualified instructor would be an excellent idea. There is no good substitute for a good instructor watching what you are doing and coaching you based on what he sees. Practice is vital, but training shows you what to practice.

I'm an NRA certified instructor for, among other things, Personal Protection Outside the Home; and we teach drawing the gun as part of that class. The more-or-less standard presentation from a strong side belt holster, as taught most places these days, goes roughly like this:



[1] You want to achieve a full firing grip before withdrawing the pistol from the holster. You should not have to shift your grip. Throughout the draw stroke, until you are actually going to fire the gun, the trigger finger stays off the trigger, outside the trigger guard and indexed along the frame. 



[2] While the strong hand is moving to grip the pistol, the weak hand is placed flat on the abdomen near the same level as the grip of the pistol. This helps assure that the weak hand isn't swept by the muzzle and also puts the weak hand in position to take grip the pistol over the strong hand.



[3] The pistol is withdrawn straight upwards from the holster, and the muzzle is rotated toward the target after it clears the holster. If using 1911, Browning High Power, or some other gun with a safety engaged, the safety may be disengaged here, but the trigger finger remains off the trigger, outside the trigger guard and indexed along the frame.



[4] When the muzzle is rotated toward the target the strong hand is at about the level of the strong side pectoral muscle and the strong hand is held against the side with the muzzle pointed to the threat. If the threat is very close, 1-2 yards, the gun may be fired from this position. This is called the retention position.



[5] At the retention position, the weak hand comes up to assume its part of the grip. The two hands then together extend the gun either fully up to shooting position or partially at a downward angle to the low ready position, depending on the circumstances.



[6] The gun is holstered by following those steps in reverse. I have been taught to follow these steps whenever removing my gun from, or placing my gun in, the holster.



[7] I've also been taught to begin moving my strong hand to the gun from about my belt buckle. The thing is that if I'm carrying my gun concealed I will need to displace my covering garment to gain access to the gun. If I sweep my strong from approximately mid line I automatically sweep aside my covering garment.



Two key words here: smooth and control. The goal is to do this smoothly. If one concentrates on being smooth and practice over and over again, he will get fast. Speed comes from smoothness and no wasted motion. And one must be in control at all times. At lot is going on, and a misstep on the presentation can be devastating. But by being smooth you retain control, and by being smooth you become fast.

And by being smooth and in control you will be accurate.

 Fast is fine, but accuracy is final.
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Old September 7, 2009, 03:42 AM   #5
Dannyl
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Fiddletown, one could not have put it better
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Old September 7, 2009, 07:55 AM   #6
skifast
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Also, be aware of your surroundings. Try to make a fast draw not necessary.
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Old September 7, 2009, 10:02 AM   #7
Frank Ettin
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Thanks, Dannyl.
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Old September 7, 2009, 11:25 AM   #8
ATW525
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Quote:
1. point your thumb up and hold it a bit rigid.
2. use your thumb to hook your shirt and lift it up, it helps if you put some pressure agains your boddy, while moving the hand up and back so as to expose the gun and bring your hand above it.
3.once you have lifted the shirt high enough, reach down and grasp your gun, now you are ready to draw.
+1

A "trick" if you're expecting trouble is to slide your hands into your front pockets with your thumbs hooked outside but under your shirt. It's a very non-threatening looking posture, but allows to draw your weapon with less chance of fumbling with your shirt.
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Old September 7, 2009, 10:23 PM   #9
Mello2u
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fiddletown's post contains one of the gems contained in the course entitled NRA Personal Protection Outside the Home. He is obviously an experienced instructor to be able to so clearly and concisely put in his post the instructions of how to draw a concealed handgun from a concealed hip holster.

I just completed the instructor's course for PPOH and will be submitting my paperwork tomorrow.
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Old September 7, 2009, 10:35 PM   #10
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Thank you, Mello2u and congratulations on becoming a PPOH instructor.
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Old September 8, 2009, 12:02 AM   #11
Nnobby45
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I thought I'd add this tip, from personal experience.

When you go to draw and find you've got both the gun and part of your cover garment, don't worry about it. Just finish the draw and extend, and the the clothing will come free.
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Old September 8, 2009, 12:16 AM   #12
ranburr
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Vest pretty much scream gun and jackets aren't always practical. I prefer a three count draw.

1.) With a Polo/T-shirt (any pull over), weak hand crosses all the way over to outside of strong side thigh. Come up under the shirt and bring shirt and hand to top of strong side upper peck/shoulder. Strong side arm is bent and the hand has stabbed the pistol grip.

2.) Draw pistol up essentially into your armpit. Come up high with the strong side shoulder, (it should be a little uncomfortable in the shoulder blade area). Muzzle should be down range at an angle that would send a round into the ground about 6ft in front of you. This allows you to immediately engage attackers at contact distance and allows you good weapons retention.

3.) Slide pistol across strong side peck and meet weak side hand immediately. Two handed grip will be complete as pistol is centered in chest and muzzle should be level. Inside of both forearms are in contact with each peck when centered. Finger now on trigger and slack is being taken up as you begin to extend out (how far you extend is dependent on how close threat is). Shot should break the minute you have extended far enough to be on target.

4.) Holster in reverse order.

Button up shirt must be untucked and one or two bottom buttons need to be left unbuttoned. This method also applies to a vest or jacket.

1.) Bring your strong side hand around dead center (belly button). I keep my one finger on top of the other going from my stomach outwards rather than palm down on stomach. Sweep strong hand under garment and sweep it back, stab the pistol grip. Weak hand should move to strong side peck/shoulder just as before.

2.) Same as above.

3.) Same as above.

4.) Same as above.

Both methods are easy to master if you have someone show you. It is actually easier to do than try to explain in writing. Most shooters completely ignore the draw. It just takes a little practice to master and get very smooth and fast at doing.
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Last edited by ranburr; September 8, 2009 at 12:32 AM.
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Old September 8, 2009, 01:54 AM   #13
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranburr
Vest pretty much scream gun...
I've never thought that was a big deal (or necessarily true). As long as you're not printing or flashing, the gun is concealed legally. And even if someone suspects, he doesn't know. I'm not convinced that a vest screams gun any more than an un-tucked shirt does.
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Old September 8, 2009, 09:48 AM   #14
bababooey32
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Vests only scream "gun" to other folks wearing gun vests. Before I looked into my CCW, I never would have thought twice about a guy wearing a vest - except of course how awful it looked!
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Old September 8, 2009, 05:16 PM   #15
Deaf Smith
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Newguy,

What has been posted above, especially by fiddletown, is quite good and clear.

But I must emphasize to keep that finger off the 'go' button, the trigger, until your weapon is on target. And then, when your weapon is off target, again, keep the finger off the trigger!

I think it's Clint Smith who said, "On target, on trigger. Off target, off trigger". A cruder version I've heard is, KYFFOTFT. But, hey, some of these guys have seen people disobey that rule and pay the price.

Practice that every time you touch the gun and in time it will be second nature. You won't even look at the gun to know where your trigger finger is.
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Old September 8, 2009, 05:48 PM   #16
ranburr
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Quote:
I've never thought that was a big deal (or necessarily true). As long as you're not printing or flashing, the gun is concealed legally. And even if someone suspects, he doesn't know. I'm not convinced that a vest screams gun any more than an un-tucked shirt does.
Lots of people walk around with an untucked shirt. With a vest, you either have a camera around your kneck or a gun on your hip.
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Old September 8, 2009, 06:00 PM   #17
Frank Ettin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ranburr
...With a vest, you either have a camera around your kneck or a gun on your hip.
Not necessarily. I've worn a vest for years, even here where I can't carry. I like having the pockets. And I see many people around here wearing vests, and I also know that they aren't carrying a gun. There are many reasons to wear a vest, especially when traveling, besides hiding a gun or for camera stuff -- just as there are a variety of reasons to wear an un-tucked shirt.
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Old September 8, 2009, 09:24 PM   #18
Deaf Smith
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Well, let's just say this fiddletown. Here in Texas where I'm at, the only ones I see wearing a photographers vest are some of my IDPA friends in town (and yes, they are packing.) I just never see those vest on anyone else.

But guys, you can pack heat many ways on a hot summer day and not print.

Large T-shirts and IWB holsters. You can even wear the mag pouch on the belt (the buldge looks like a beeper.)

Appendix carry works well that way. And behind-the-hip will work with any slimline 9mm or even subcompact 1911 (but don't bend over to pick up a coin, least it prints.)

You can also use a 'Hot Jocks' or 'Thunderware' if you don't mind, er... presperation being on the weapon alot. Works very well when you go to church with good cloths on. Most .380s like P3AT and LCP work perfect. And the J frame .38 will do (but I find the elastic bands inhibit the draw as the bands tend to go over the cylinder, and thus hard to draw.)

You can even get a cell phone pouch and pack one of those P3AT/LCPs. Just get the kind of pouch that fits on the belt. Handy item!
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