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Old September 6, 2009, 10:36 AM   #51
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I'm not claiming the guys he shot were good guys, by any stretch.

I'm also not saying he didn't have reason for fear.

I am saying that other train passengers had not been harmed by the guys involved, and that Goetz' description of events didn't quite mesh with those of the witnesses on the train.

I'm also saying that Goetz set himself up for serious problems by putting the second bullet into a BG that was down and not fighting, and making his stupid "have another" comment.

He got off easily on the criminal complaint; unlawful possession of a firearm, if I remember correctly, is the only charge that stuck.

The civil suit's outcome was mostly of his own making. Again, his second bullet and comment hurt him; he is an abject example of the value of keeping one's mouth shut.
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Old September 6, 2009, 10:49 AM   #52
Claude Clay
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are you a target shooter or a gunfighter?

the first shot is a point-shoot coming out of low ready at the perps bellybutton [Mozambique lower plate]. second shot is semi-aimed at his COM [ m. upper plate] 3rd shot is aimed at the 2nd perp's COM [ m.upper plate only].

from buzzer this drill puts 3 shots from concealed draw on target in 1.5 seconds. threats are at 3 to 5 yards. people ask 'what is good when you practice?' this is one component of measuring good. under 2 seconds starts the 'good'.
situational awareness is another--better to avoid the gun play completely.
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Old September 6, 2009, 10:49 AM   #53
Deaf Smith
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2 to the chest 1 to the head but what if there are two people?
Boarding house rules might then apply. Or move and stack your opponents before firing. No one technique works for all situations. You adapt and improvise.
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Old September 6, 2009, 02:28 PM   #54
Glenn E. Meyer
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It seems to me that when one contemplates shooting one person twice in the abdomen, moving to shoot another person in the abdomen, and moving back to shoot the first person in the head, and then moving again to shoot the second person in the head to 'finish them off', that person has crossed some sort of line beyond 'shoot to stop'. We're now in the territory of 'kill any aggressors', and I shouldn't have to explain why this mentality is not only immoral or destructive, but also contrary to the philosophy that those who espouse a respect for 2nd amendment rights wish to uphold.
I must disagree with this analysis. I also must say that I don't respect the comments about morality or the 2nd Amend. I also, also say that the analysis fails to appreciate the actual situation.

First, using an opportunity to get of Dodge and disengage is the way to go. However, in lethal force situation, faced with foes with weapons - a shot in the abdomen is not guaranteed to stop any attack. The Mozambique drill is a response to a failure to stop. That means the opponent is still in the fight and a lethal threat to you.

You need to stop the threat if still posed. As a shot anywhere in the torso can be lethal - I fail to see the differential morality to add more shots to the original seeing the opponent is still in the fight.

Next, we have:

If you've shot a human armed with a screwdriver and can't find a way to overpower them or otherwise extricate one's self from the situation after firing a shot into said assailant then you would certainly fail the most basic of physical fitness tests.
That's simply not reality. Perhaps the poster is someone of superhuman physical abilities. But some folks might shoot a big person in the stomach and if he doesn't stop, not have the physical ability to go H2H.

Thus, the tactical and philosophical aspects of that post do not stand up to analysis.
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Old September 6, 2009, 05:00 PM   #55
Nowhere Man
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It amazes me how some threads take on a life of their own.

From the OP asking how to shoot a simple 6 round drill to SpectreBlofeld's coment on how "Threads like this make me feel uncomfortable".

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Old September 6, 2009, 07:43 PM   #56
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jamaica "shoot them between the eye's"
That might be the biggest "Movie Answer" ever on TFL. Maybe from the hip too.
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Old September 6, 2009, 09:27 PM   #57
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This thread appears to have run its course.

Thanks to all the non-chest-thumping answer-ers for the good discussion.

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