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Old September 1, 2009, 03:14 PM   #1
max it
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lead in blood: 17 count

Out of a possible 25 allowable by OSHA<who would have ever thought That I would find OSHA helpful>
My dr. whom we call "Bones" claims that his research allows 10 as the acceptable limit with no neurological effects.
What effects?
Who has concerned themselves before me?
And maybe it isnt from lead reloading or casting but rather the indoor range; i spend an hour or two a week at?

Much obliged,

Max
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Old September 1, 2009, 03:50 PM   #2
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I would tend to lean toward poor ventilation at that indoor range.

How's their vent/air exchange work? How often does it turn the air over?

You are melting lead outside and well vented? Right?

If I were you I'd try not shooting indoors for a month. Then have your lead level re checked. If it drops, you will know the source of your trouble.

Good luck
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Old September 1, 2009, 03:56 PM   #3
max it
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Lead in indoor range, hmmm

Hi Q,

I hope not. The indoor range is 1 mile away, the outdoor is 20. Try that when I want to test a load.
And yes, what little casting I have done so far is outdoor. What I do notice is the substantial lead on my fingers after loading those bullets vs bought bullets with a higher BHN.
And a knowledgeable mentor of mine believes that the ventilators at the indoor range are top notch.
But I like your test, that will do it.

Much obliged,

Max

Last edited by max it; September 1, 2009 at 03:59 PM. Reason: sp.
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Old September 1, 2009, 04:05 PM   #4
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Lead doesn't leave your blood system. Unless you lay off to see if your levels don't increase, the amount will not decrease. I would suspect poor ventilation- one reason I hate using indoor ranges
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Old September 1, 2009, 04:52 PM   #5
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Don't handle lead with bare hands. Get some of those disposable vinyl gloves from CVS. They still allow good feeling in your fingers but keep the lead off your skin.

From what I've read, lead isn't absorbed directly thru your skin anyway, it enters when you eat/smoke or touch your eyes, mouth with it on your hands. Wash your hands often and make it a good cleaning.

Don't use any kitchen utensils in your molding, casting and then reuse them in the kitchen.
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Old September 1, 2009, 09:46 PM   #6
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lead count

while surface lead (lead on fingers eaten, rubbed in eyes & so on) the culprit is lead vapor inhaled into the lungs , direct path to blood stream!!
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Old September 2, 2009, 12:48 AM   #7
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is a lead test a specific test you have done or would it be picked up in a normal 'complete blood test' the doc's usually do.
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Old September 2, 2009, 12:57 AM   #8
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Hmmm, 10 parts per decaliter is toxic to children, 30 parts is toxic to adults.

I had a family member poisoned by a spouse about 8 years ago, she tested in at 156 parts.

Needless to say, she passed away two years later, after suffering from multiple types of cancers. Her cell DNA was so screwed up they were starting everywhere.

Lead is not something to mess around with, without being careful. BTW, he was a reloader and got the lead from his castings.
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Old September 2, 2009, 02:23 AM   #9
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The last post points up one of the symptoms, which is loss of rational thought; on the part of the poisoner, that is, who probably had high lead levels, too.

The metal is not all that poisonous. People have lived with lead bullet fragements in their bodies for decades. You need adequate acidity to put the lead in a soluble form. Eating the oxide (as in lead-based paint) will do it as stomach acid breaks it down into a soluble form.

Kids are a lot more susceptable than adults. The acceptable levels were lowered a number of years back, but mostly because of the effects on neural development in kids. I've seen it debated whether even the old limit of 50 will noticably affect most adults? I had a level of 11 about 25 years back, despite indoor shooting where there was no propber ventillation by current standards and doing bullet casting (though I had a vent for the casting). Washing hands adequately using a nail brush to get oxides out from under fingernails before eating seems to be a key.

You can sweat lead out gradually with a sauna. That's what the treatment for mercury poisoning always was before chelation therapy. It may still be for milder cases, which I would put yours in, as you are adult. Besides, it's an excuse to relax in the steam room.
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Old September 2, 2009, 10:25 AM   #10
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HI Ya,

Mike, I asked for the lead test to be included in my routine blood test. I have one every three months; i think it is to CYA on the Dr who prescribes all my various blood pressure and cholesterol meds. Anyway I was warned by the guys at the outdoor range to check lead levels as I spend two hours a week in the indoor range, and untold hours as a 'range rat'.
Unkle, I am searching for a sauna even as we speak . Next month in Minnesota!

Much obliged,

Max
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Old September 2, 2009, 12:28 PM   #11
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I've posted this on here on TFL and on other forums. There's a lot of hype, paranoia and just plain myth involved with lead poisoning.

Metallic lead cannot be absorbed through the skin! At least not unbroken skin. If you have a cut or sore, best not be touching anything lead. Lead salts are much more readily absorbed. Lead styphonate is present in the primers we use. That's what is responsible for most of the lead we see in blood tests. Shooting at ANY indoor range will expose you to lead styphonate. Tumbling fired cases also removes it from inside the cases and primer residue if you deprime first.

There's little or no fumes associated with casting molten lead. Casting temps are BELOW the temperature needed to produce lead vapors. Vapors are generated in quantity at and above 1200 degrees F. Electric furnaces we use for casting cannot go much above 900 degrees F. If you're using a gas fired pot, THEN you could easily get over 1200, but you bullets would be heavily frosted. The smoke you see when fluxing is just that SMOKE not lead fumes!

I cast a lot of bullets, INSIDE without ventilation. I shoot mostly outside, but do belong to an indoor range that is seriously in need of better ventilation. That said, my last blood test was 7.0! Since I do everything wrong, why isn't mine higher? Because I'm religious about cleanliness. If I even enter the reloading man cave, I wash my hands with a good strong soap before I eat or do anything. I resist the urge to scratch my eyes, or any part of my face while loading. I wear a dust mask when I'm loading or unloading my tumbler!

The EPA has grabbed onto lead as a way to circumvent us shooters. Californicate has already banned lead wheelweights. And made it mandatory to use non toxic bullets for hunting in most parts of the state. Just to protect a carrion eating buzzard! Ya know what? The substitute for lead core bullets is solid copper bullets, hmmm copper is toxic also!
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Old September 2, 2009, 12:32 PM   #12
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My grandpa has had a 12 gauge slug floating around in his hip area for about 25 years. When he was shot (while on patrol) the slug actually broke in 2 pieces. He has had no issues with it as of yet. But, lead vapors are indeed bad. Normal casting temps will not create lead fumes.
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Old September 2, 2009, 04:14 PM   #13
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Hi,

Snuffy, I just printed the thread out to show my Dr." Bones"

He is a good med man but a bleeding heart liberal otherwise,

this should be good. As they looked askance when I asked for the lead test.

He already told me about the lead in primers. I thought not. I guess that one I will have to eat humble pie.

Much obliged,

Max
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Old September 2, 2009, 09:50 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oneounceload
Lead doesn't leave your blood system. Unless you lay off to see if your levels don't increase, the amount will not decrease.
Unless I'm misunderstanding your post, I must disagree. Treatments such as a balanced diet to Chelation therapy helps rid the body of lead content.
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Old September 7, 2009, 01:24 PM   #15
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Quote:
Treatments such as a balanced diet to Chelation therapy helps rid the body of lead content.
Yup! There's an internet myth/partial fact that high doses of vitamin C will help in removal of lead from the body. The body does it by itself, if it didn't, we'd all be dead from lead poisoning. Chelation therapy is mostly done under a doctors supervision. I know that in the past, it involved passing the blood through a filter or machine to remove the heavy metals. Some claimed it removed cholesterol as well.
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Old September 7, 2009, 01:50 PM   #16
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I have no idea if this is true or not, perhaps someone can answer it.

Where lead becomes toxic is that the body mistakes it for calcium. Supposedly taking plenty of calcium will reduce lead absorption in the same way that taking iodine saturates the body and reduces the absorption of the dangerous isotope Iodine-131.
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Old September 7, 2009, 04:20 PM   #17
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Lots of ancedotal info here...

I have dozens of shotgun pellets embedded in my skull for over 30 years, some of them soo deeply, penetrating the bone. My lead level has held steadily at 17; no amount of casting or chelating has affected this; no sauna, no calcium, no vitamin C has affected this. The only thing EDTA has an affect on is the lead in the barrel in the cleaning of my handguns (and I have a method for doing this). Iodine supplement analog is false; Iodine supplements simply replaces the iodine-131 already held by your system. While hygiene is commendable it has no root in lead dosages.


OTOH maybe this nervous ticking is just an artifact /s
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Old September 7, 2009, 07:12 PM   #18
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An old farm tale to reduce the cat population was to put pennies in their drinking water.
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Old September 7, 2009, 09:21 PM   #19
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Quote:
An old farm tale to reduce the cat population was to put pennies in their drinking water.
My grandpa just put anti-freeze outside in bowls for them in places only the cats could get to. Don't think that would fly too well in today's world.
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Old September 7, 2009, 09:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
Quote:
An old farm tale to reduce the cat population was to put pennies in their drinking water.

My grandpa just put anti-freeze outside in bowls for them in places only the cats could get to. Don't think that would fly too well in today's world.
That still works great today for rodent control. If you have mice or rats the old style anti-freeze will kill them. Just keep your pets away from it.
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Old September 17, 2009, 03:18 PM   #21
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I saw this thread awhile back and remembered it when I recently went to have my cholesterol checked, so I asked my doc to check for lead too. He did and I got the results today. He said my lead count was 2!
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Old September 17, 2009, 03:52 PM   #22
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2...that's it!?....NOOB! LOL
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Old September 17, 2009, 04:05 PM   #23
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I'm pretty happy with that. Considering all the thousands of rounds I've fired out of a 50 cal during my military years, all the rounds I fired indoors and the limited smelting I've done I'm pretty happy with a 2!
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Old September 17, 2009, 08:09 PM   #24
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At least we all aren't trying to go for the high score.
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Old September 17, 2009, 08:25 PM   #25
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Yep, I wish I could go Nello....
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