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Old August 28, 2009, 12:29 PM   #1
serf 'rett
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How to ask permission?

Bollocks! I just plowed through 5-1/2 pages of posts, Carrying into friend/acquaintances' homes, and thought I was going to get to ask my questions. The thread was closed less than an hour ago. My concealed carry paperwork has been filed with Arkansas State Police and I expect to get a license within 0 to 120 days. I have been trying to figure out how to handle Arkansas Code “(D) Any licensee entering a private home shall notify the occupant that the licensee is carrying a concealed handgun.” The great State of Arkansas requires me to tell private homeowner Jack or Jill I’m carrying and the mentioned thread indicated Alaska and SC have similar laws. As a green-as-a-gourd newbie I had hoped to get some pointers on how to handle this legal requirement without becoming a hermit. I read many comments about “picking your friends”, whether one should or should not carry unannounced and "my home, my rules" on the mentioned thread, so we can skip most of that discussion. Since I’m required to “notify the occupant”, anybody got some hints, suggestions or definite “do not do that’s”? While I'm socially active, I'm somewhat of a private person in my private affairs, so how do I broach the subject and ask permission of friends, neighbors or acquaintances?
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Old August 28, 2009, 12:33 PM   #2
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"can I carry in your house?" sounds simple enough.
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Old August 28, 2009, 12:53 PM   #3
peejman
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TN has a similar law. It's called "concealed" carry for a reason.... but beyond that, I'd guess you already know how your various friends might feel about you bringing your firearm into their home. If you're not sure, just ask. If you want to be subtle about it, try starting a casual conversation on the general topic of firearms and go from there. I don't go into many random people's homes so it's really not a big deal.
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Old August 28, 2009, 01:29 PM   #4
Phoebe
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Peej, it seems like you could be subtle in most places, but if there is an actual law against, without permission, you need to be more explicit.

I don't know if there is any more graceful way than to just tell the person you may visit, that you carry and ask if it's okay to carry in their home.

In other states, I'd assume a more subtle conversation is just as respectful even if it might not so explictly dot the i's, etc.

(Translation: if someone lets me know that they often/sometimes/rarely carry, that is a data point in the back of my mind and if I want to inquire further, I can. But I don't think my state mandates telling me and I don't think that subtle convo would legally cover you.)
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Old August 28, 2009, 01:33 PM   #5
Glenn E. Meyer
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We don't want to do the values argument again if you don't have to call. If you are legally bound

I suggest if you know you are going - call them and ask explictly. If you are in one of these states and just arrive and don't know the person - leave it in the car. I can see a world of weirdenss if you announce at the door that you have a gun.

Or don't go there.
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Old August 28, 2009, 01:36 PM   #6
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The best time to ask permission is when you are asked and not when you get to the front door. Someone calls and says, "come over to dinner Friday," you can respond, "Thanks for the invite, by the way I normally carry a concealed handgun, would you have any problem with me carrying in your house"? If they say "no problem" you're good to go, if they say, I would rather you didn't bring a gun into my house" then you can considered if you want to go or not, or leave it the car while you are there.
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Old August 28, 2009, 01:38 PM   #7
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I can see a world of weirdenss if you announce at the door that you have a gun.
LMAO

Just use comon scence, courtesy and be prudent.
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Old August 28, 2009, 01:54 PM   #8
sakeneko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kayla
But I don't think my state mandates telling me and I don't think that subtle convo would legally cover you.
Right both times. The state of Nevada does not mandate volunteering the information that you carry even to a police officer unless the police officer specifically asks you if you are carrying. Then you need to tell him and also, when asked, show him your CCW permit. In Nevada, you are not legally obligated to tell anybody who is not a sworn officer of the law or the court that you are carrying. The law is different in other states, however. If I were not absolutely sure what the law said in a state and a policeman stopped me or was talking to me officially, I would show the policeman my CCW with my driver's license or other ID. I would also answer truthfully if any business or homeowner asked when I was entering their business or home, and if I were unsure of the law in a particular state, would volunteer the information.

Good manners may also mean you should tell somebody that you aren't legally obligated to tell. I'd definitely tell a friend whom I knew to be uncomfortable with guns that I was carrying before I visited them at home or entered their car. I'd also tell a friend that I knew wanted to be told in any circumstance where I suspected the friend would want to know. (You, for instance, except that you'd already know or guess.) ;-) Other than that, though, if I were carrying concealed, I would probably answer nosey questions from people who had no reason to ask with something politely non-committal. There's being truthful, and then there's TMI (too much information).
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Old August 28, 2009, 03:44 PM   #9
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Good question. I vote for being direct, and not waiting until you're standing in their doorway. That way you get to any discomfort right away, without being on their turf or in their house, or you get the green light. Either way, you should know how they stand before you're on their premises. that's my 2 cents.

But the first question might be, how do i tell my (spouse,BF/GF,etc) that i'm now carrying. If you have neither, then there is no issue, and you can vett prospective partners beforehand. But if you do have one now, have you considered how they will view it, what their comfort level will be, and how they will react when you jump into bed wearing nothing but your shoulder holster and your birthday suit.

I speak from experience - my wife is uncomfortable around guns and prefers not to see them or know when i'm carrying. She understands why i have them and why i wear one, but wants no part of it. It's a wonder the marriage has survived, considering she feels i took these steps on my own (which i did) without consulting her (which i didn't) though i did inform her what i was doing. And then there is the cost of each new gun you've just got to have... Just saying, it would have been better if i'd established some ground rules before jumping in, considering how much more important that relationship is than any other friendship.
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Old August 28, 2009, 04:43 PM   #10
serf 'rett
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Kyo – your line "can I carry in your house?" really struck my funny bone. I can see the funny stare as I'm asked, “Carry what?” Envision the church’s soon-to-be-ex-deacon (me) getting the “carry what?” response from the 70+ year old lady when we drop by to pray for her sick husband. Or she may say, “Sure, deacon ‘rett, iffin’ you didn’t care(y) ya’ll wouldn’t have stopped by now, would ya?”
Kayla - you are correct. Way the AR law reads is I must tell when entering a private home – casual conversation might be an ice breaker, but ultimately I need express permission to enter while carrying (does no permission make me an armed intruder?).
Glenn M – The weirdness I’ve encountered from a few friends and other folks when “mentioning” I was “thinking” about carrying concealed is plenty enough to convince me that I don’t want to “announce at the door.” And I must say that some of the weirdness is a tad scary (some unfocused gun lovin’ rednecks give me the bejeebers more than a Brady liberal).
Wally – somewhat of a laid back life style down South. I’m used to dropping in on folks uninvited and unannounced. Appears I’ll need to re-orient my life style more than just mentally moving to Condition Yellow. Shoot, when I tell some folks I have a handgun on me, they are likely to ramp into Condition Yellow themselves.
Sakeneko – You caused another question to come to mind. I don’t think AR law says squat about getting in someone’s vehicle. I’m in sales; therefore, it’s quite common for me to jump into a customer’s vehicle to go look at something. That’s something else I’ll need to mull over.
Daughtery16 – Wife asked me last night, “are you through with all that gun stuff yet?” She’s aware – Springfield XD-m9, MRI Baby Eagle 40S&W, ammo, CC class, CC application, more ammo, etc., etc. – I could tell she was approaching Condition Red, so I performed a clearance drill by tapping my head, racking my brain, ejecting some empty thought and clearing out. She’ll probably settle down when I stop spending. She ok with the idea, but since I don’t carry yet, I’m not sure how she will react when I start. I do some marriage counseling part time, which might help….
Thanks for the responses ladies and gents! Anyone from Alaska or South Carolina or elsewhere got a war story of how they informed a casual acquaintance?
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Old August 28, 2009, 07:29 PM   #11
Coverbuster
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Only hang out with gunpeople . If the people you hang out with wont let you carry or dont like it they are not worth hanging around .

Imaging this :

You ask Joe Home Owner if you can carry , he says yea sure . half way into the evening some tard you hardly know get cocky with you , why cause Joe HoMowner has been running his mouth ..........................that you have a weapon .

Now what ??

Dont ask dont tell , Clinton had one thing right .
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Old August 28, 2009, 08:06 PM   #12
Phoebe
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'rett, you're a hoot! You better practice those tap, rack, and urm...marital counseling exercises.

Either that or tell your wife that you think gun toting women are hot, and then take her shooting with you!
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Old August 28, 2009, 08:38 PM   #13
Dwight55
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As a pastor, . . . I know there are times and places and people where both the Bible and/or CCW are not welcome discussions, . . . depending on where one is and who happens to be present.

When the problem is CCW, . . . I simply unholster and go in without the thing until I know for sure that it will be as welcome as myself.

Most of my congregation either are fond of guns or actually have their CHL's, . . . so most of the time it is not a problem.

I do, however, respect the sheeple attitude of my youngest brother and both of my sisters, . . . I don't carry in their houses. Butttttttttttt, . . . it is in the car or the Jeep just outside, . . . and that is the way I handle others of whom I don't know their attitude.

I generally steer the discussion in that direction if I don't know, . . . listen for either positive or negative feedback and act accordingly. It's really easy, once you've done it a couple of times.

May God bless,
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Old August 28, 2009, 10:02 PM   #14
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Quote:
Only hang out with gunpeople . If the people you hang out with wont let you carry or dont like it they are not worth hanging around .
I don't choose friends based solely on the premise they have to have the same beliefs I do.
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Old August 29, 2009, 01:03 PM   #15
sakeneko
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuttle8
I don't choose friends based solely on the premise they have to have the same beliefs I do.
Well said. And too many people do these days, which leads to a lot of people talking past each other and never understanding *why* they think differently about different things. That's dysfunctional, in the purest sense of the word -- it gets in the way of a community functioning.

Where guns are concerned, it's a pity to avoid the people who are afraid of them for a couple of reasons. First, there's the simple advantage of knowing what fear of guns looks like and how it affects people. In the case of a mugging or public attack, knowing this may save your life or let you save someone else's. Second, there's the opportunity to help someone get over an irrational fear by letting them be around a sane, reasonable individual who owns and shoots guns. Every non-criminal, non-crazy person out there who owns and uses guns is a living argument against banning them or significantly restricting their use by law-abiding, sane adults.
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Old August 29, 2009, 01:22 PM   #16
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Oh I have a pistol in my pocket, I hope it dosnt bother you
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Old August 29, 2009, 01:48 PM   #17
Glenn E. Meyer
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Old August 29, 2009, 06:18 PM   #18
curt.45
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Quote:
can I carry in your house

all the beer you want, but you have to share with me.

sure unless it's nicer than mine.

carry who?
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Old August 29, 2009, 06:35 PM   #19
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Why would you feel the need to carry to a friends house? What are you worried about?
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Old August 29, 2009, 06:48 PM   #20
Don H
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Ever hear of home invasions? Somebody being attacked between the front door and their car? It does happen. Unfortunately, one can't predict these sorts of things and only carry when you know you're going to need it.
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Old August 29, 2009, 06:51 PM   #21
mskdgunman
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It's not necessarily the need to carry in a friends house, it's simply the fact that at least for me, I have a firearm on me everywhere I go so, if I'm out and stop by a friends house I'm carrying. All of my friends just assume that I'm armed and it has NEVER been an issue. I can't even think of a time when it has been brought up.

To me, it's a non issue. If I'm carrying the right way, no one will know unless they pat me down at the door. It's like the whole "Don't ask, don't tell" thing. Also, I don't have any friends who are rabidly anti gun as well as a few who, if I should show up without a gun, they'll give me one
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Old August 29, 2009, 06:52 PM   #22
Nnobby45
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Quote:
"can I carry in your house?" sounds simple enough.
I might be inclined to prep my friends in advance, where possible, and let them know I carry and if it would be a problem. Where lesser acquaintences are concerned, rather than let everyone know I carry, I might prefer to leave the gun secured in my car. This for states where notification is a requirement.

Otherwise, In my state, Nevada, I'm not in the habit of announcing that I'm armed no matter where I go. There could be exceptions where I would disarm myself in their home out of respect if I knew their feelings.

There are simply some people I specifically don't want to know that I'm armed, even if I should find myself in their house for whatever reason. I've carried since 1995 around the same people for all these years, and, except for a select few, they haven't the slightest clue. Confide in the wrong person, and everyone knows you're armed.

Just my thoughts on the matter.

Last edited by Nnobby45; August 29, 2009 at 06:58 PM.
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Old August 29, 2009, 06:52 PM   #23
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I am curious! Does this rule or law apply to a police officer off duty or retired? Does it circumvent H.R. 218, the Law Enforcement Officers Safety Act?

I normally don't ask and don't tell.
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Old August 29, 2009, 07:46 PM   #24
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Why would you feel the need to carry to a friends house? What are you worried about?
If I worried about my friends, they wouldn't be my friends. But can you tell me what I am going to encounter walking too and from my car, and on the drive to and from that neighborhood, and everything else during that day? Me neither.
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Old August 29, 2009, 11:01 PM   #25
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Quote:
Why would you feel the need to carry to a friends house? What are you worried about?
We just did that thread -- and it's still near the top of the forum page, plus it's linked in the opening post of this one, so feel free to go read up a bit. (And let me point out, that thread is closed ...)

Let's keep this one on topic with its opening question, please.

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