The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The North Corral > Curios and Relics

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 27, 2009, 12:46 PM   #1
zxcvbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,149
Best current deals C&R pistols

Starting a new thread because I really didn't mean to hijack that other one.

I just sent in my C&R to SOG, Century Arms, and J&G Sales this morning. I'm looking for a TT-33 or TTC, and maybe some kind of Makarov (and a turn of the century S&W top-break .38 revolver)

Who has the best deals for a good shooter? Are there any guns I should avoid because they are just junk? Are there other suppliers I need to look at?
__________________
"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun"
zxcvbob is offline  
Old August 27, 2009, 03:12 PM   #2
BobbyT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2009
Posts: 266
Any particular reason for being CZ-52-averse? It felt a bit hefty once my Tokarev arrived but it's solidly built and uses the same cheap ammo so I wouldn't be so quick to cull it from your list.
BobbyT is offline  
Old August 27, 2009, 03:47 PM   #3
zxcvbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,149
Quote:
Any particular reason for being CZ-52-averse? It felt a bit hefty once my Tokarev arrived but it's solidly built and uses the same cheap ammo so I wouldn't be so quick to cull it from your list.
I want to be able to shoot surplus hot Bulgarian SMG ammo without worrying about the gun blowing up in my hand. CZ-52 has very thin chamber walls at the bottom, the TT-33 is stronger.
__________________
"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun"
zxcvbob is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 02:04 AM   #4
BobbyT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2009
Posts: 266
I've seen the hot "SMG ammo" claim attributed to Polish, and Romanian, and Bulgarian ammo. They claim also refers to ammo in stripper clips, so if you're buying boxes or cases of boxes with loose ammo that wouldn't apply.

More importantly, I found multiple posts from guys actually chrono-ing rounds from various countries refuting this claim as a myth (I have both pistols, and didn't want to have to keep track of which ammo was which or be finicky when shopping, so I Googled like a fiend).
BobbyT is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 02:21 AM   #5
raftman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2009
Location: Oregon
Posts: 1,889
Maybe it's cuz the CZ-52 is so ugly? Not that the Tokarev is gorgeous, but seriously, dunno what those CZ folks were thinkin.'
raftman is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 07:35 AM   #6
jsmaye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Location: Amarillo, Tx
Posts: 616
Have to disagree - the vz. 52 has great rakish lines to it.

As far as bargains go, how about the CZ vz. 82?
__________________
No matter how big and tough you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone you'll answer it.
jsmaye is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 08:55 AM   #7
noelf2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2008
Location: Stafford, VA
Posts: 1,743
+1 on the CZ 82. That will also "amost" meet your makarov need as well "same ammo and same dependability". I have a Tok but want a CZ 52 as well, but like you, the Tok was first on my list. Shame, because when I got the Tok, the CZ 52's were a lot cheaper than they are now.

Now as a true C&R collector, you will evenually have to get a Nagant revolver. What a fine piece of work and history, however, it's kind of useless. Still a must have though (for me), and I doubt they'll be less than $100 forever.
__________________
Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.

Last edited by noelf2; August 28, 2009 at 09:02 AM.
noelf2 is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 11:21 AM   #8
zxcvbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,149
Quote:
Now as a true C&R collector, you will evenually have to get a Nagant revolver. What a fine piece of work and history, however, it's kind of useless. Still a must have though
I've seen those and yes they are on the wishlist, just farther down (They'll shoot .32-20 ammo reloaded with .30 Carbine dies, won't they? Or are the rims too thick?)
__________________
"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun"
zxcvbob is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 11:30 AM   #9
kab37
Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2007
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 34
C&R pistols

Don't forget a Star Modello Super. Great shooter, looks like 1911, ammo available - 9mm largo.

kab
kab37 is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 12:48 PM   #10
CowTowner
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 17, 2007
Location: Cowtown of course!
Posts: 1,147
Quote:
Don't forget a Star Modello Super. Great shooter, looks like 1911, ammo available - 9mm largo.
+1

Add http://www.sarcoinc.com to your list of C&R dealers.
__________________
NRA Chief Range Safety Officer, Home Firearm Safety and Pistol Instructor
"There are three classes of people: those who see, those who see when they are shown, those who do not see."
Leonardo da Vinci
CowTowner is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 01:23 PM   #11
noelf2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 14, 2008
Location: Stafford, VA
Posts: 1,743
Quote:
I've seen those and yes they are on the wishlist, just farther down (They'll shoot .32-20 ammo reloaded with .30 Carbine dies, won't they? Or are the rims too thick?)
Some people reload for them but they rarely reload in a way that takes advantage of the gas seal between the cylinder and barrel. I shoot hotshot Nagant ammo (preferred), or 32 s&w long with mine. 32 s&w long isn't ideal though, but is safe and works well (splits the case and doesn't gas seal). Fun at the range and more accurate than you'd expect. Can't go wrong for the money, but that's my opinion. I reload 32 s&w long so after I used a case 5 or 6 times in my other 32s, I'll load them up for the nagant to officially ruin them.

I got my Romanian Tok from Century (I recommend you only get VG or Excellent condition from them), the Nagant(s) from AIM Surplus, and the CZ82 at a gun show. I want a CZ52 but I guess I don't want it bad enough or I'd have it already.
__________________
Liberty and freedom often offends those who understand neither.
noelf2 is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 02:07 PM   #12
zxcvbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,149
It would be fun to qualify for CCW using a Nagant -- freak everybody out.
__________________
"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun"
zxcvbob is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 04:47 PM   #13
zxcvbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,149
I found directions for making Nagant brass out of cut-down .223's
http://shootersforum.com/showthread.htm?t=1327

That might bump it up a spot or two on my "list".
__________________
"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun"
zxcvbob is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 04:50 PM   #14
B. Lahey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,835
Quote:
the TT-33 is stronger.
Sorry, that's just wrong.

Reed's Custom makes a variety of CZ52-only ammunition that would turn a Tokarev into flying fragments. It's a stronger action and much more suitable for heavily loaded ammunition.
__________________
"A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards."
-George Orwell
B. Lahey is offline  
Old August 29, 2009, 03:27 AM   #15
BobbyT
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 3, 2009
Posts: 266
Star Modelo guys, I have a question. I've seen those for cheap but the deal breaker for me is the ammo. Right now I'm only interested in stuff that is either common, or if out of common use then so plentiful it's dirt cheap (ie 7.62x25).

Are there any .45s available?
I haven't come across anywhere that actually has a Sistema or Ballester-Molina, but those are the two I know of. I've heard of a Ballester-Rigaud, but never seen one.

Have they just all been grabbed up (understandably), or are there any C&R 1911s left?
BobbyT is offline  
Old August 29, 2009, 08:44 AM   #16
zxcvbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,149
CZ52 has a stronger mechanism, but the barrel and chamber are severely weakened by the cut out made on the bottom for the rollers:
http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost....7&postcount=21

I'm not trying to start a p***ing match, just saying I'm looking for a TT33 or TTC rather than a '52.
__________________
"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun"
zxcvbob is offline  
Old August 29, 2009, 04:41 PM   #17
B. Lahey
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 17, 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 2,835
No worries, everyone should have both.
__________________
"A human being is primarily a bag for putting food into; the other functions and faculties may be more godlike, but in point of time they come afterwards."
-George Orwell
B. Lahey is offline  
Old August 30, 2009, 12:37 PM   #18
rick983
Member
 
Join Date: May 24, 2008
Location: Indiana
Posts: 47
Zxcvbob

I want to be able to shoot surplus hot Bulgarian SMG ammo without worrying about the gun blowing up in my hand. CZ-52 has very thin chamber walls at the bottom, the TT-33 is stronger.

Bob;
Your above statement is not correct. Do not run hot loads thru the TT33, they are good guns but don't come close to the strength of the CZ52. The 7.62x25 represents one of the best shooting values around and is a blast to shoot.
rick983 is offline  
Old August 30, 2009, 03:08 PM   #19
AmmoSphere
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2009
Posts: 27
I would get a .40 Cal, more power than a 9mm and not the recoil of a .45, it has that perfect balance.
AmmoSphere is offline  
Old August 31, 2009, 07:48 AM   #20
jsmaye
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 18, 2008
Location: Amarillo, Tx
Posts: 616
The OP asked about C&R deals. There are no .40 caliber C&R weapons.
__________________
No matter how big and tough you are, when a two-year-old hands you a toy phone you'll answer it.
jsmaye is offline  
Old August 31, 2009, 05:17 PM   #21
carguychris
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 20, 2007
Location: Richardson, TX
Posts: 5,462
Quote:
I just sent in my C&R to SOG, Century Arms, and J&G Sales this morning. I'm looking for... a turn of the century S&W top-break .38 revolver
You can't order .38 top-breaks from major suppliers because they weren't used by any large military forces as a service sidearm on a large-scale basis. (.44s and .45s were, but I digress.) OTOH many top-breaks are considered legal Antiques and can be bought and sold without a FFL at all. More info here:

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=358013
__________________
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules... MARK IT ZERO!!" - Walter Sobchak
carguychris is offline  
Old August 31, 2009, 05:22 PM   #22
zxcvbob
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 20, 2007
Location: S.E. Minnesota
Posts: 4,149
I'm watching gunbroker.com for the top-break revolver. There are some nice H&R's there now. Not sure if I should get one, or wait for a S&W (I'm getting it for an occasional shooter, not just to hang on the wall)
__________________
"The only way to stop a bad guy with a gun is with a good guy with a gun"
zxcvbob is offline  
Old September 4, 2009, 08:03 AM   #23
jdscholer
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 23, 2008
Location: Jefferson State
Posts: 895
With the top breaks, if you look at the Smiths along side almost any of the others you'll want the Smith. jd
__________________
"We're all dummies, just in different ways." Old Okie Philosopher
jdscholer is offline  
Old September 11, 2009, 07:48 PM   #24
Chris_B
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 9, 2007
Posts: 2,841
Quote:
Don't forget a Star Modello Super. Great shooter, looks like 1911, ammo available - 9mm largo.

kab
Got to say I agree with my Pop. I've shot his Star many times and it is overall a high quality pistol, very 'tight', and quite accurate. My only complaint is that some of the fiddly screws seem to be soft metal- poor heat treat cycle on some of the replacement fasteners maybe? Well two complaints- the grip threads have no bushings like a 1911 and if they strip its a PITA

Dimensionally it is the same as my 1911A1 in .45 ACP...and it was less than half the price of my 45
Chris_B is offline  
Old September 11, 2009, 09:04 PM   #25
Tom2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 23, 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,648
Toks seem to me to have sort of a bizarro grip angle with an odd shape in the grip frame, or at least to me it feels like it is not just a great grip frame design. At least the CZ has a better feel to me. I have fired a Tok but not a CZ though, and that might be the difference. Some Toks had modified grips on the frames that fit the hand better, like for the Egyptian models. I would not buy another Tok myself. And the Russian revolvers, well they are kinda neat but up close most of them just look nasty.
__________________
Your gun is like your nose, it is just wrong for someone else to pick it for you!
Tom2 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:19 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13101 seconds with 7 queries