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Old August 22, 2009, 10:40 PM   #1
BamaBowtie
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Handgun in vehicle, legal in Florida?

Is it legal for me to keep a loaded pistol in my truck without a permit? I will soon be taking the class and sending off my app. but would like to know if I can toss one in the glove box for now. I know I can carry a long gun and I just might slip the Mossberg behind the seat, but would prefer my .45 or .357.
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Old August 22, 2009, 11:28 PM   #2
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With a permit, yes - on your person or anywhere in the vehicle.

Without a permit, yes - in the glovebox, or securely encased and not readily accessible.
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Old August 23, 2009, 04:56 PM   #3
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Title XLVI
CRIMES

Chapter 790
WEAPONS AND FIREARMS

View Entire Chapter

790.25 Lawful ownership, possession, and use of firearms and other weapons.--


(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.
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Old August 25, 2009, 11:07 AM   #4
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Delta58 is right.

I could copy and paste the law, but he already did that. I looked into this, and it comes down to two simple issues.

First it must be "securely encased." This means in a center console, in a snapped holster, in a glove box, etc.

Second, it can not be visible. A snapped holster on the seat is not ok. A snapped holster under the seat is ok. A snapped holster in the door pocket is questionable.

If it is concealed on your person, it is not acceptable.

Check Florida Statute 790.001 "Definitions"
(17) "Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.


790.25
(4) CONSTRUCTION.--This act shall be liberally construed to carry out the declaration of policy herein and in favor of the constitutional right to keep and bear arms for lawful purposes. This act is supplemental and additional to existing rights to bear arms now guaranteed by law and decisions of the courts of Florida, and nothing herein shall impair or diminish any of such rights. This act shall supersede any law, ordinance, or regulation in conflict herewith.

790.25
(5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE.--Notwithstanding subsection (2), it is lawful and is not a violation of s. 790.01 for a person 18 years of age or older to possess a concealed firearm or other weapon for self-defense or other lawful purpose within the interior of a private conveyance, without a license, if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use. Nothing herein contained prohibits the carrying of a legal firearm other than a handgun anywhere in a private conveyance when such firearm is being carried for a lawful use. Nothing herein contained shall be construed to authorize the carrying of a concealed firearm or other weapon on the person. This subsection shall be liberally construed in favor of the lawful use, ownership, and possession of firearms and other weapons, including lawful self-defense as provided in s. 776.012.

I added the bold to point out the intent of the legslature. The bold sections indicate that the law is intended to be interpreted in favor of the gunowner when possible. This is important, because in the decision to prosecute, the state would have to find evidence to overcome the intended liberal interpretation. It's just another example of Florida's gun owner friendly system.
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Old August 25, 2009, 01:12 PM   #5
Jacobie
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What if you have a KY permit?
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Old August 25, 2009, 01:56 PM   #6
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First off be prepared to wait at least 14-16 weeks to get your permit. My app was recieved April 23rd and I got my permit last week on Aug 18th.

As far as carrying it in your vehicle I believe the gun can not be loaded and must not be in reach from the drivers seat if you do not have a permit. I believe the weapon has to be unloaded and in a enclosed carrier thus requiring two steps to fire it, removing it from the case and loading it. I could be wrong, but here in the state of Florida I wouldn't take any chances.

Kentucky permits are honored in Florida.
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Old August 25, 2009, 02:18 PM   #7
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Nytro yes you are wrong
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Old August 25, 2009, 04:36 PM   #8
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Quote:
I believe the weapon has to be unloaded and in a enclosed carrier thus requiring two steps to fire it, removing it from the case and loading it.
Nope. Florida law is quoted above - nothing says it has to be unloaded, only enclosed, and "enclosed" is defined rather gently, to include the glove box whether locked or not.

So the answer to the OP question: Can I keep a loaded handgun in the glove box of my truck without a CWP in Florida? Clearly and expressly, yes.
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Old August 25, 2009, 07:27 PM   #9
srt 10 jimbo
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I dont keep a gun In my Truck (worried someone will break in) I have my CCW, when I get in the truck I take it off my waist and i close the snap on the holster and put it in the glove compartment. It's a pain too cause I have to take and pick up my kids to and from school, which means I have to leave the gun at Home.
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Old August 26, 2009, 06:25 AM   #10
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As it was explained to me in my Florida CCL class, the gun must be both encased (snaped holster or zipped pouch or snapped case) and out of reach (glove box or trunk or back seat). Gotta be both. Now if you have the license or your state's is honored, you can carry it however you want in the car so long as it's not seen.
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Old August 26, 2009, 07:27 AM   #11
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the gun must be both encased (snaped holster or zipped pouch or snapped case) and out of reach (glove box or trunk or back seat). Gotta be both.
I am neither a lawyer nor a CCW instructor, and I don't really worry about it because I have had my CCP for many years, but with the word "or" in the law as quoted in post #5 . . .

Quote:
Check Florida Statute 790.001 "Definitions"
(17) "Securely encased" means in a glove compartment, whether or not locked; snapped in a holster; in a gun case, whether or not locked; in a zippered gun case; or [emphasis added] in a closed box or container which requires a lid or cover to be opened for access.
. . . I would not interpret it that way, and I have not previously heard it interpreted that way. Seems like "or" should be changed to "and" if you had to do both. My understanding is that glove compartments and consoles are sufficient without an additional holster or pouch. Reading it liberally, as its intention is stated, it would seem that a snapped holster on the seat beside you would actually be legal, too, because of that pesky "or" word, but I'll let someone else test that part of the law.

If still in doubt after reading the law carefully, though, it may be time to get legal advice from a qualified professional rather than an internet forum.

Last edited by TailGator; August 26, 2009 at 07:33 AM.
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Old August 26, 2009, 11:21 AM   #12
srt 10 jimbo
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I just talked to the Instructer I had for CCW Class. He said if you have a ccw permit you can carry it on you as long as It's concealed.
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Old August 26, 2009, 03:23 PM   #13
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The OP said without a permit.

And I agree that the statute says or so you wouldn't think you need both, but I was merely passing on what my CCW instructor said, as I stated. The wording of the statute and how it's enforced aren't always the same thing (even if they should be).
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Old August 26, 2009, 03:40 PM   #14
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While I can't speak for all LEO's, in general, I've never given anyone any grief for having a firearm (holstered or not) in the glove box. I do like to know about it though. As some people carry their insurance/registration in the glove box, it makes me a little nervous to have somebody reach for the glove box to get their paperwork only to see a handgun drop into view right near their hand.
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Old August 27, 2009, 03:32 AM   #15
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Not a lawyer here, but was a police officer in Pinellas County from 1978 to 2007 when I retuired and moved to the cabin in the woods, and I have never understood where all this crap about two moves came from. It was NEVER a statute.

Read what the law says, and go by that and you will be fine. "or" means or, and "and" means and, and they are not the same. The box or closure be it a console or glove box is the securely encased. That is why the statute says it is and specifies "with the door closed, whether or not locked" when talking about the glove box. It is is snapped into a holster, that means "snapped into a holster" and DOES NOT mean in a holster with a velcro strap, as that is not a snap. Zipped into a zipper case means just that, and in fact I had one case were the gun was in a zipper case under the seat of the car, but the zipper was not fully closed, so was therefore not "zipped into a zipper case" but was just "in" the zipper case and a quick call to the on call State Attorney got the answer of "arrest him" when we called and asked.

If you read the law, and do what it says, you will be fine, unlesss you get some 23 year old deputy that was raised anti-gun in New York (and there are quite a few of them) who is going to arrest you anyway. In that case, you are going to take the ride and there is nothing you can do about it. But you will win in the end. My advise is that if you are carrying a gun in your car, (as I always do) you stay sober, obey all the laws to the best of your ability, avoid trouble (not go looking for it as many do), be polite and cooperative if you come in contact with the police, and tell them you have the gun if you have to go into the area where it is stored for other reasons. (like to get your insurance card). If you carry a gun in your glove box (legal in FL, loaded or not) then you may want to put your insurance and registration in a holder on the visor or someplace else so you do not have to open the glove box to get it. It that so difficult? A little preparation goes a long way.

And if you have to announce the presence of the gun, expect to have it unloaded, run in the computer to make sure it is not stolen, and returned to you empty. Any officer would be in hot water with his supervisor if he does not run any gun he comes in contact with in the computer, and does not run every person he comes in contact with in the computer. you may not like it, but that is the officer's job, and you better get used to it. Pay your tickets and renew your license and tags and you will have no problems.

Sorry to rant, but you all seem like nice folks, and I am still living here in Florida and want this state to stay a nice place to live. This is how it works here, and if that is bad for you, stay out of Florida. We have guns here. It is no big deal to MOST officers.

PS: "not looking for trouble" includes staying out of what we call "knife and gun clubs" which are little neighborhood bars and pool halls. When you see "Mascotte Bar", "Whiskey Bar", "Lighthouse Bar", "All Bikers Welcome" or anything like that,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, GO ON BY................. Unless these are YOUR neighbors in YOUR neighborhood.
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Old August 27, 2009, 10:30 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by louiethelump
And if you have to announce the presence of the gun, expect to have it unloaded, run in the computer to make sure it is not stolen, and returned to you empty. Any officer would be in hot water with his supervisor if he does not run any gun he comes in contact with in the computer, and does not run every person he comes in contact with in the computer. you may not like it, but that is the officer's job, and you better get used to it.
Just curious. Why would you insist on violating the 4th amendment? What reasonable articulable suspicion is there for ASSUMING that a gun MAY be stolen just because it is in the legal possession of a person not prohibited from possessing it? I find it outrageous that a police agency would have a policy like that. Without RAS that the gun is illegal it is also illegal to check it.

AND, let's say you get Joe citizen on the side of the road, he tells you he has the gun stored in the glovebox, his record from the DL comes back clean, AND you run the gun's serial number to check if it is stolen. NOW it does comes back on the hit list. Guess what! It is now inadmissable as evidence because you had NO RAS in order to seek further evidence of a crime. You have conducted an illegal search and seizure!

It is permissible for you to conduct search and seizure of a weapon for officer safety IF you have RAS that the party is armed, such as "Yes, I do have a gun". However, the supreme court has ruled that, absence of any other RAS, the search and seizure MUST BE LIMITED to that necessary for officer safety. Running the serial number is now making that search and seizure for the purpose of evidence gathering, which without RAS of a crime related to that object, the gun, is ILLEGAL!

It is just like executing a search warrant on a house looking for a stolen piano. If you find drugs in a desk drawer during the search, are the drugs admissable as evidence? NO. Because you were looking for a stolen piano and there is no way the stolen piano could be in the desk drawer you looked in. Is it reasonable to check a DL during a traffic stop? Absolutely, no problem with that. Is it reasonable to check the serial number of a gun found to be in LAWFUL possession of a person who may LAWFULLY posses it? NO!

In response to louiethelump's post about how the police operate, I would highly recommend that everyone watch the 45 minute video available on youtube and on www.flexyourrights.org entitled "Busted, the citizen's guide to surviving a police encounter".

Last edited by NavyLT; August 27, 2009 at 10:40 AM.
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Old August 27, 2009, 10:41 AM   #17
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As usual the mis-information runs wild. Some have stated the law correctly and some are so far off its scary.
Law states, enclosed container,( glove box, center console, tubber ware container on the seat). THE MAIN THING TO FOLLOW IS, THE ABOVE ITEMS MUST BE CLOSED. If the glove box or console is open and the gun can be seen and touched WITHOUT OPENING THE STOREAGE AREA you are in violation of the law and will be arrested.
THERE IS NO SUCH 2 OR 3 STEP METHOD IN THE STATE OF FLORIDA. PERIOD The is also no such law about holsters being required for auto transport.
If anyone wants to disagree you can proceed to the following web site run by Jon H. Gutmacher, Esq. www.floridafirearmslaw.com and proceed to page 83,84
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Old August 27, 2009, 11:21 AM   #18
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Be nice if they wrote laws where someone who is not a lawyer can understand them
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Old August 27, 2009, 04:25 PM   #19
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In florida a firearm may be kept anywhere but on the person by a non ccp holder so long as it is out of sight to avoid scaring the meek and timid types. ANYWHERE as in between the seat and console, under the front seat in the glove box and it may be kept fully loaded and ready to fire. The vehicle has been included in the castle doctrine and the attacker out side the vehicle has to do very little to warrant the driver being in fear of death or great bodily harm...

This has been changed from our old "5 step" law to curb or curtail car jackings and it has really put a dent in that crime rate statistic in short order.
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Old August 27, 2009, 04:56 PM   #20
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ANYWHERE as in between the seat and console, under the front seat in the glove box and it may be kept fully loaded and ready to fire.
Sorry, but for handguns, the "if the firearm or other weapon is securely encased or is otherwise not readily accessible for immediate use" portion of the law is still very much valid. delta58 correctly posted Florida law in the 3rd post of this thread.

If you have a link to Florida law which repeals 790.25(5) then post it.
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Old August 27, 2009, 05:09 PM   #21
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Just curious. Why would you insist on violating the 4th amendment? What reasonable articulable suspicion is there for ASSUMING that a gun MAY be stolen just because it is in the legal possession of a person not prohibited from possessing it? I find it outrageous that a police agency would have a policy like that. Without RAS that the gun is illegal it is also illegal to check it.
I was stopped for speeding by a county deputy. I informed the deputy that I had a CCW, that I was armed and where the firearm was located. The deputy and his partner removed me from my car, removed the handgun, searched me for other weapons (where they removed two knives). They unloaded my handgun and ran the serial number against their list of stolen firearms. After everything checked out, they wrote me a ticket, handed back all of my weapons and let me go.

Since that time, I do not volunteer to LEOs that I am armed.
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Old August 27, 2009, 09:18 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hkmp5sd
I was stopped for speeding by a county deputy. I informed the deputy that I had a CCW, that I was armed and where the firearm was located. The deputy and his partner removed me from my car, removed the handgun, searched me for other weapons (where they removed two knives). They unloaded my handgun and ran the serial number against their list of stolen firearms. After everything checked out, they wrote me a ticket, handed back all of my weapons and let me go.

Since that time, I do not volunteer to LEOs that I am armed.
Yep, they violated your 4th amendment rights straight up. They had no RAS that your lawfully carried firearm was stolen, and therefore it was an illegal search for evidence of a crime by running the serial number of the gun. If you had the money, you would probably have a pretty good civil rights case against them, IF you had proof they actually called the serial number in. That would be the tough part - obtaining proof that they did it that would stand up in court.

Police that so readily violate persons rights as a matter of routine really leave a bad taste with me.

BTW - consider this. When you get pulled over and the cop asks you if you know why you were being stopped or asks if you know how fast your were going - they are asking you to provide information against your 5th amendment rights to not incriminate yourself. The easiest answer is, "No, officer I do not." If you really want to be completely within your rights, you can also state that you are invoking your 5th amendment right against self incrimination.
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Old August 27, 2009, 11:55 PM   #23
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The State of Florida has a web site dedicated to Handgun laws. Doesn't take much to find it and answer the question direct from the horse's mouth. Don't take a chance because someone told you something on an internet forum...wonder how that would hold up in a court of law?
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Old September 2, 2009, 11:22 AM   #24
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your vehicle is considered an extension of your home and you can legally carry your firearm on your person you just can't get out of the car with it on your person unless you have an CCW
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Old September 2, 2009, 02:58 PM   #25
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your vehicle is considered an extension of your home and you can legally carry your firearm on your person you just can't get out of the car with it on your person unless you have an CCW
The exact wording of the law has been posted and it does not support your statement. Statements by former law enforcement officers have been posted and they do not support your statement. I have been teaching the state CCW course for over 20 years and I am not aware of anything that allows what you state.

Can you post a link to a Florida law that allows unlicensed concealed carry inside a motor vehicle by overriding 790.25 (5) POSSESSION IN PRIVATE CONVEYANCE?
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