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Old August 17, 2009, 06:30 PM   #151
maestro pistolero
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"Sir, why are you open carrying an assault rifle?"

"Because it won't fit in my pants"
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Old August 17, 2009, 06:37 PM   #152
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"Sir, why are you open carrying an assault rifle?"

"Because it won't fit in my pants"
Is that an AR-15 or are you just glad to see me?



Sorry I....just couldn't resist.

And does anyone besides me find this little quote amusing? to wit;

Quote:
Phoenix police Detective J. Oliver, who was monitoring the man at the downtown protest, said police also wanted to make sure no one decided to harm him.
Priceless!
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Old August 17, 2009, 06:41 PM   #153
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Is that an AR-15 or are you just glad to see me?
Because if that is an AR-15, you are gonna need to file a Form 1 for anything that small.
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Old August 17, 2009, 07:13 PM   #154
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A brilliant move on our part to expand on this would be to send a large group of pro 2A folks who happen to be from both sides of the health care debate, all armed to the teeth, and show the world how armed citizens can have a peaceful disagreement on one issue, and be absolutely unified on another. Now there's a real civil right demonstration for ya'. Think we'd make the news?
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Old August 17, 2009, 07:14 PM   #155
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While this happened in a different location, it's essentially the same thread, as that "other" one. Merging....
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Old August 17, 2009, 07:40 PM   #156
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A brilliant move on our part to expand on this would be to send a large group of pro 2A folks who happen to be from both sides of the health care debate, all armed to the teeth, and show the world how armed citizens can have a peaceful disagreement on one issue, and be absolutely unified on another. Now there's a real civil right demonstration for ya'. Think we'd make the news?
I agree with this whole-heartedly. I'd have to travel across state lines though. Can't be armed at any kind of demonstration even though I'm in an OC friendly (in relative terms) state. Of course I also live in a state that says the local authorities can strip you of the right to be armed during a state of declared emergency (when we would need it the most... hellooo???).

I'll drive to VA or SC if someone will organize it though

EDIT: I HAVE to add something. I honestly believe that if a few more of these instances pop up, then we will be dealing the Antis a HUGE HUGE blow. That is barring the bizarre instance that someone was involved in a SD shooting, but hopefully that won't be an issue. Then again, I think before it really got to that point, the media would no longer report it as it wouldn't be with their agenda.
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Old August 17, 2009, 10:45 PM   #157
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A brilliant move on our part to expand on this would be to send a large group of pro 2A folks who happen to be from both sides of the health care debate, all armed to the teeth, and show the world how armed citizens can have a peaceful disagreement on one issue, and be absolutely unified on another.
I'm with that! Maybe they can be sitting in tanks or Apache helicopters or something, maybe with artillery behind them and a minigun to the side. We'll have a moderator sitting on a Hydrogen Bomb!
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Old August 17, 2009, 11:39 PM   #158
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I'm with that! Maybe they can be sitting in tanks or Apache helicopters or something, maybe with artillery behind them and a minigun to the side. We'll have a moderator sitting on a Hydrogen Bomb!
You don't mean that, you incorrigible rascal.
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Old August 18, 2009, 02:38 AM   #159
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A brilliant move on our part to expand on this would be to send a large group of pro 2A folks who happen to be from both sides of the health care debate, all armed to the teeth, and show the world how armed citizens can have a peaceful disagreement on one issue, and be absolutely unified on another. Now there's a real civil right demonstration for ya'. Think we'd make the news?
Seriously? A "brilliant move"? The Black Panthers thought they were being brilliant by using open-carry laws to introduce weapons into political debate. Strangely, this brilliant move horrified the public. Governor Ronald Reagan agreed with the public and signed gun control into law, ending open carry.

Wikipedia:

Quote:
From the beginning the Black Panther Party's focus on militancy came with a reputation for violence. They often took advantage of a California law which permitted carrying a loaded rifle or shotgun as long as it was publicly displayed and pointed at no one.[42] Carrying weapons openly and making threats against police officers, for example, chants like "The Revolution has co-ome, it's time to pick up the gu-un. Off the pigs!",[43] helped create the Panthers' reputation as a violent organization. The greater part of the reputation was earned in particular incidents such as the following.

On May 2, 1967, the California State Assembly Committee on Criminal Procedure was scheduled to convene to discuss what was known as the "Mulford Act", which would ban public displays of loaded firearms. Cleaver and Newton put together a plan to send a group of about 30 Panthers led by Seale from Oakland to Sacramento to protest the bill. The group entered the assembly carrying their weapons, an incident which was widely publicized, and which prompted police to arrest Seale and five others. The group pled guilty to misdemeanor charges of disrupting a legislative session.[45]
Americans will not stand for intimidating displays of weapons being part of public political dialogue. Americans can be kind of democracy-loving that way.

If this trend continues, open carry will end.
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Old August 18, 2009, 03:10 AM   #160
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Americans will not stand for intimidating displays of weapons being part of public political dialogue.
I would never suggest an intimidating display. The goal would be to show peaceful, law abiding folks, who happen to be armed, having a calm dialog.

The Black panthers were all about intimidation, as they were last year when a couple of them showed up with clubs at the voting precinct in Philly. (I think it was Philly)

We do need to be careful here. Any armed demonstrations should be organized and carefully orchestrated and staged to achieve the intended goal.
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Old August 18, 2009, 03:43 AM   #161
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If this trend continues, open carry will end.
For whatever reason, I agree. This makes people very antsy. And very antsy people start screaming at their legislators (just look at the healthcare "debate"). Perhaps this eventually forces the issue to the Supreme Court but you will see a knee-jerk reaction. Legislators across the blue states will start enacting more laws prevent it. You may say, "what good is a a right if you do not exercise it". This is a good point, but it does not change the fact that this is not really the kind of publicity that helps the cause. Sad, indeed, but true.
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Old August 18, 2009, 04:46 AM   #162
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I love my state. If I want to carry, I can. Unless it is specifically prohibited in an area, I will. Did he need to? Probably not. But he didn't break any laws, and as far as I can tell, the First Amendment still has some weight to it, so he can hold up a sign saying almost anything he wants. He gets a thumbs up from me. And if I had been told about it, I would have been there too. And for the guy that compared this to the Black Panthers......Really? That was a totally nonviolent gesture. As opposed to yelling about killing police. It's time to tighten up your shot group my friend. The mind is a precision weapon, not a Street Sweeper.
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Old August 18, 2009, 05:53 AM   #163
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open carry

Don't know if this has been mentioned somewhere earlier in this thread but here's another discussion of a similar arrest at a rally in Philadelphia:
http://forum.pafoa.org/open-carry-14...ally-site.html

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Old August 18, 2009, 08:12 AM   #164
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Sorry, but this guy does nothing to further the rights of other gun owners. Most people who are ambivalent about guns and the carrying of guns will be swayed to the anti-gun side of this argument. Everybody knows it is legal to carry in New Hampshire.

it's legal to breast feed in a restaurant, but I would wager that most of us would prefer s mother not do it. it's legal to burn a flag, but most of us would frown on that too (I hope).

What good is accomplished by somebody openly carrying for the sole purpose of making a political statement? He makes guns owners look radical.

And the guy kept blinking. Made him look a bit nutty to me. And you think he could have found something else to wear other than a t-shirt?

And I would have told Chris Matthews to stop talking at me like I'm his child. Only man I would ever let raise his voice to me was my father.
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Old August 18, 2009, 08:31 AM   #165
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there is a fine line

between exercising your rights and pushing them in a way that upsets people. There is a certain amount of decorum and respect that must be given to the office of President, even if you do not like the person holding the office. Open carry to a location where he is speaking truly does cross that line. Not to mention the fact that the SS have no sense of humor about this sort of thing.

Why shock people? Why bring up gun issues when we do not have a bad status quo right now? I would love to buy military spec weapons, but I will settle for what I can get now. I have no problem with background checks as long as those records of those checks are destroyed at the end of everyday, like they are supposed to be. Hell I would even go so far as to say you should have an endorsement on your license or ID to be able to purchase a different class of weapon or even conceal carry. That does not mean you will or have to do or make either. Yet when you go in, you flash your ID and that is all that is needed for a purchase and the purchase is not recorded by the government in any way. That would also take away the Brady types argument against cross state CC permits. It is not a paper permit of questionable authenticity, it is an endorsement right on your ID. I already have a class A CDL with BPNT endorsements... I am just trying to get an entire alphabet on my ID
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Old August 18, 2009, 08:53 AM   #166
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I just want to tell those of you who think this was a "bad" are wimps. Somehow I think if you all had lived in the 1700's you all wouldn't have had the guts to stand up to King George like our founding fathers did. What the guy did was legal and we should all be backing him up. Yes, there will be the anti-gun people that will freak out, but they would freak out just the same if he had been carrying a sign that supported the 2d amendment rights. The people who freak out have no common sense and it's impossible to reason with them. However, you have forgotten the good that this has possibly done. Maybe there are some people who have seen these people carrying and have been re-energized to take back our country. I think it's good that people get used to seeing other people exercise ALL their rights and not just the ones they think should be "rights".

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Old August 18, 2009, 08:57 AM   #167
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Quote:
but they would freak out just the same if he had been carrying a sign that supported the 2d amendment rights
Somehow I doubt that.

Discretion is sometimes the better part of valor.
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Old August 18, 2009, 09:02 AM   #168
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The Black Panthers were all about intimidation, as they were last year when a couple of them showed up with clubs at the voting precinct in Philly. (I think it was Philly)

They weren't trying to intimidate anyone. To borrow some of your words, they were just "peaceful, law abiding folks, who happen to be armed, having a calm dialog."

After all, it was just clubs, not guns. What's the big deal, right?

There really is no such thing as someone who "happens to be armed." It's a meaningful act, and open carry is especially meaningful. Hypothetically, if I were having a heated argument with you in person, then I go to my car and come back with a shotgun slung around my shoulder to continue the argument, would you consider this an unremarkable thing to do?

Introducing guns into a political dialogue is literally anti-American. We don't do politics with violence here -- or, at least, when we're at our best we don't.
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Old August 18, 2009, 09:19 AM   #169
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Introducing guns into a political dialogue is literally anti-American. We don't do politics with violence here

Respectfully Sir, but, you have not read much of this thread have you ?

This entire discussion has been about a non-violent protest.

Might I suggest you read back through this thread, beginning with the OP. I also offer some very reasoned words from a part of this very thread;

Quote:
But it is crucial that the right, and means to violent overthrow be retained overtly. Meanwhile, there it is, right there in the holster, the ultimate monument to self-governance, where it peaceably remains until needed to oppose a immediate violent threat. That, we should not have a problem with.

Quote:
there is a fine line
between exercising your rights and pushing them in a way that upsets people.
I would venture that most of "those people", that might get upset, do not even realize that they have the same rights. It's not about intimidation, but education.

If you let the "fear" that you might offend someone dictate your rights, then you have effectively already lost that right.


Quote:
Open carry to a location where he is speaking truly does cross that line. Not to mention the fact that the SS have no sense of humor about this sort of thing.

These men broke no laws, were in plain sight of police, and SS, and caused no violence. Pray tell to what "line" do you refer?

I will ask that you, as well, go back and read this thread from the beginning, as I believe you may have missed the point.
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Last edited by OuTcAsT; August 18, 2009 at 09:33 AM.
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Old August 18, 2009, 09:24 AM   #170
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Sure, what they are doing is legal, but it is not the politically smart thing to do. The average person seeing a guy show up at a political event with an AR-15 is not likely to think he is a normal, polite person. When you combine this with media spin from CNN, it gets even worse.

It's legal, and I (personally) have no problem with people peacefully open carrying. The problem is many people will have a problem with it, and public opinion does have an effect.

Open carry needs to be "normalized" in everyday society before it can be normalized at (often heated) public debates.
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Old August 18, 2009, 09:26 AM   #171
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macville
I just want to tell those of you who think this was a "bad" are wimps.
Wimps? Really?

So anyone who disagrees with you, merits some name-calling from behind the safety of your internet connection and arm chair. Yes siree! that's real macho of you.

There are real and tangible arguments, for and against, this type of action. Try joining the discussion, instead of just emoting and calling names. That is the tactics of our foes.
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Old August 18, 2009, 09:36 AM   #172
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It is a simple question of decorum and maturity. Open carry is legal, okay. Yet exercising that right in an area with lots of armed and alert law enforcement makes about as much sense as going into a bar with a loaded AR when you intend to get absolutely sloshed.

Now if they organized an open carry march on the other side of town to let Obama know that they will defend their rights. Or maybe organized said march on another day, that shows taste and still makes the statement.

Carrying a firearm in the open anyplace an elected federal official is at just feeds into the fear mentality that the Brady nuts propagate! Want to open carry? Lets get a few thousand outside a Brady convention in AZ, that I would be down with. Though I fear someone would lose control and it would get ugly
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Old August 18, 2009, 09:45 AM   #173
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Wow. I did not read ALL the replies on this post, but wow. This guy has a set of b****s on him made of iron.

I think we will now be seeing more carrying around protests from here on out. He has crossed a legal threshold that VERY few would do. I can see both sides of the argument. One side, I applaud him for exercising his 2nd amendment right and being articulate in explaining his reasoning behind it. However, I can see a nutjob do the same and accidentally brandish it or have a N/D.

Not trying to get political, but this shows the fortitude and perseverance of one American almost risking his life to show his disdain with the current path our country is taking.

Last edited by VinnyT; August 18, 2009 at 10:10 AM.
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Old August 18, 2009, 09:58 AM   #174
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VinnyT
2nd amendment privilege
Vinny, please fix.

Government has powers given to it by the People.

The People have Rights.

Calling those Rights privileges is a disrespectful thing to do, to those who fought and died to preserve them as rights for the last 234 years.

Subjects have privileges. Citizens have rights.
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Old August 18, 2009, 10:04 AM   #175
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It can also be argued that it is disrespectful to the people that have died to defend this country to open carry around its elected leader.

Sorry but swords cut both ways.
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