Visiting Vermont

EricReynolds · August 10, 2009, 11:20 PM

I live in NY and have a sportsman permit that doesn't allow me to carry when I'm not working. I hear that Vermont has the most liberal laws in the nation regarding owning and carrying guns, even to non-residents. My question is if I go to Vermont on vacation with my locked unloaded gun in the trunk along the way like I'm required to, can I carry while in Vermont?

CortJestir · August 10, 2009, 11:42 PM

It is said that in Vermont, even the democrats have guns.

A fella I helped run a shoot with this past weekend is from VT. From what I gathered from him, you can carry a handgun concealed or open. Long guns in a vehicle must be unloaded and loaded mags or ammo kept separately - this is done, as I understand, to prohibit roadside poaching.

All this, with the usual caveat to check the state's laws for yourself, of course.

NavyLT · August 11, 2009, 10:36 AM

Yes. Open or concealed, doesn't matter.

Jim March · August 11, 2009, 10:53 AM

There's a deeper misunderstanding here:

Why would you assume the state of Vermont CAN discriminate against US citizens who reside in other states?

I can assure you, constitutionally they cannot. See Ward v. Maryland (1870) and Saenz v. Roe (1999), both US Supreme Court cases.

This is also why Plaxico Burress is likely to get off, because NY hasn't figured this out yet where gun laws are concerned.

Yellowfin · August 11, 2009, 11:18 AM

Only problem with that, Jim, is that he's being tried in a NY court. The only thing NY courts care about is persecuting guns nonstop 24/7 without any hesitance. They don't care what the law says unless it's against you, period. All 6 sides of the die say "You Lose." You could cure cancer, AIDS, and global poverty but if you carry a gun you're evil incarnate as far as they're concerned.

Jim March · August 11, 2009, 12:11 PM

Except he's got the resources to take it further, and a solid USSC decision that may let him jump over to the Federal district court immediately after a state court conviction under a habeus filing.

**Mike Irwin** · August 11, 2009, 12:14 PM

You know, Plaxico Burress is close to the LAST person I want to hold up as a poster child for gun rights in this country.

CowTowner · August 11, 2009, 01:07 PM

Quote:

You know, Plaxico Burress is close to the LAST person I want to hold up as a poster child for gun rights in this country.

No argument Mike, but should he go the route Jim mentioned, things could get interesting in NY.

Jim March · August 11, 2009, 03:14 PM

We agree he's an idiot. But does he deserve a felony conviction and multi-year prison sentence?

**Brian Pfleuger** · August 11, 2009, 03:18 PM

[thread hijack]

Quote:

does he deserve a felony conviction and multi-year prison sentence?

I guess it depends on what you mean by "deserve". Considering that he broke the law, blatantly, and that the suggested sentence is the punishment for breaking said law then yes he does.

Whether or not that law should even exist is sort of neither here nor there for any individual case, the law does exist and so does the punishment.

In the grand scheme, yes, the law is stupid and unconstitutional but it's far from the only one.

Honest people obey the law.

[/thread hijack]

Eric,

Vermont seems to have no restrictions whatsoever. Anyone who can legally own a firearm may carry it. It appears from my reading that "can legally own" means 18 years old and no felony record.

http://www.handgunlaw.us/states/vermont.pdf

brickeyee · August 11, 2009, 03:50 PM

Quote:

This is also why Plaxico Burress is likely to get off, because NY hasn't figured this out yet where gun laws are concerned.

NY is applying the same law to him as to every resident of NY.

He will get off because he has $$ and an expensive lawyer.

blume357 · August 11, 2009, 05:20 PM

even though everyone can open or conceal carry there are places during certain times of the year you can not carry.

macville · August 11, 2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

I guess it depends on what you mean by "deserve". Considering that he broke the law, blatantly, and that the suggested sentence is the punishment for breaking said law then yes he does.

May I point out that Rosa Parks also broke a certain law and we now hail her as a hero. Last time I checked most, if not all, gun laws were unconstitutional. So I don't feel like being very hard on someone who was simply bearing arms.

Matthew

**Mike Irwin** · August 11, 2009, 07:07 PM

"May I point out that Rosa Parks also broke a certain law and we now hail her as a hero."

The law she broke was not applied to all citizens of the state of Alabama equally.

Different situation entirely.

armsmaster270 · August 11, 2009, 07:31 PM

I have CCW'ed in Vermont about 8 different times in the last 5 years and haven't seen any restrictions except when I went into the Prison I had to leave it.

**Brian Pfleuger** · August 11, 2009, 07:46 PM

Quote:

So I don't feel like being very hard on someone who was simply bearing arms.

If Plaxico Burress was "simply bearing arms" then I would truly hate to see what you would define and irresponsible and dangerous.

vranasaurus · August 11, 2009, 09:15 PM

Isn't he charged with reckless endangerment(or something like that) in addition to the actual gun charge?

Even if the new york possession law were unconstitutional he wouild still be guilty of that.

EricReynolds · August 11, 2009, 10:08 PM

If Plaxico Buress gets off, I for one will not see it as a day our freedom is upheld. I would go to jail. He should too. Not because NY gun laws are just, but because we ought not make things just for some. That's not fair at all. He said he thought his expired out of state permit was good here. Ignorance isn't an excuse. This got a little sidetracked. I was inquiring if I going camping in VT, could I carry? Now we're talking about Plaxico.

**Brian Pfleuger** · August 11, 2009, 10:23 PM

Eric,

Check the link I posted above. Vermont seems to have virtually no restriction at all. It appears to me that any non-felon age 18 or over can carry there, open or concealed.

If it were me, I'd probably call VT state police and ask them-just to be safe.

EricReynolds · August 11, 2009, 10:40 PM

Thanks Pete

Jim March · August 12, 2009, 12:38 AM

Quoting Mike:

Quote:

The law she broke was not applied to all citizens of the state of Alabama equally.

Different situation entirely.

No it's not. New York has chosen to discriminate against US citizens from out of state. They were banned from doing that back in 1870 - cross-border discrimination was the ORIGINAL "protected class".

Quoting Brickeyee:

Quote:

NY is applying the same law to him as to every resident of NY.

You don't have to take my word for it: call any sheriff's office in New York, ask how you can get a NY carry permit while a Florida resident. You can't. Therefore, the law discriminates on the basis of state citizenship.

Finally, as to the negligence thing, the reason he was packing without a holster was to create plausible deniability on the carry charge. The unconstitutional, literally evil law literally written by a madman dying of syphillus created the accidental discharge.

NavyLT · August 12, 2009, 10:47 AM

Quote:

"May I point out that Rosa Parks also broke a certain law and we now hail her as a hero."

The law she broke was not applied to all citizens of the state of Alabama equally.

Different situation entirely.

So, an unconstitutional law is OK so long as it is applied to all persons equally?

**Al Norris** · August 12, 2009, 11:14 AM

Eric, I'm sorry to see your thread so far off topic. I believe your question was answered, even if you had to sort through the chaff.

Closed for going irretrievably off topic.

August 10, 2009, 11:20 PM	#1
EricReynolds Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 393	Visiting Vermont I live in NY and have a sportsman permit that doesn't allow me to carry when I'm not working. I hear that Vermont has the most liberal laws in the nation regarding owning and carrying guns, even to non-residents. My question is if I go to Vermont on vacation with my locked unloaded gun in the trunk along the way like I'm required to, can I carry while in Vermont?

August 10, 2009, 11:42 PM	#2
CortJestir Senior Member Join Date: July 7, 2008 Location: Southern CT Posts: 1,406	It is said that in Vermont, even the democrats have guns. A fella I helped run a shoot with this past weekend is from VT. From what I gathered from him, you can carry a handgun concealed or open. Long guns in a vehicle must be unloaded and loaded mags or ammo kept separately - this is done, as I understand, to prohibit roadside poaching. All this, with the usual caveat to check the state's laws for yourself, of course. __________________ "They have men amongst them who know very well what they are about..." - Lord Hugh Percy, on the events of April 19, 1775 Do you know what you're about? Find out at an Appleseed near you.

August 11, 2009, 10:53 AM	#4
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,015	There's a deeper misunderstanding here: Why would you assume the state of Vermont CAN discriminate against US citizens who reside in other states? I can assure you, constitutionally they cannot. See Ward v. Maryland (1870) and Saenz v. Roe (1999), both US Supreme Court cases. This is also why Plaxico Burress is likely to get off, because NY hasn't figured this out yet where gun laws are concerned. __________________ Jim March

August 11, 2009, 11:18 AM	#5
Yellowfin Senior Member Join Date: January 7, 2007 Location: West Upstate NY Posts: 2,303	Only problem with that, Jim, is that he's being tried in a NY court. The only thing NY courts care about is persecuting guns nonstop 24/7 without any hesitance. They don't care what the law says unless it's against you, period. All 6 sides of the die say "You Lose." You could cure cancer, AIDS, and global poverty but if you carry a gun you're evil incarnate as far as they're concerned. __________________ Students for Concealed Carry on Campus http://www.concealedcampus.org New York gun owners unite! Join now! http://www.nyshooters.net May Issue is the new Separate but Equal.

August 11, 2009, 12:11 PM	#6
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,015	Except he's got the resources to take it further, and a solid USSC decision that may let him jump over to the Federal district court immediately after a state court conviction under a habeus filing. __________________ Jim March

August 11, 2009, 10:36 AM	#3
NavyLT Junior member Join Date: January 25, 2006 Location: Oak Harbor, WA Posts: 1,719	Yes. Open or concealed, doesn't matter.

August 11, 2009, 12:14 PM	#7
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 33,119	You know, Plaxico Burress is close to the LAST person I want to hold up as a poster child for gun rights in this country. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 11, 2009, 03:14 PM	#9
Jim March Senior Member Join Date: February 14, 1999 Location: Pittsburg, CA, USA Posts: 7,015	We agree he's an idiot. But does he deserve a felony conviction and multi-year prison sentence? __________________ Jim March

August 11, 2009, 05:20 PM	#12
blume357 Senior Member Join Date: August 2, 2005 Location: Greenville, SC Posts: 3,943	Be warned that a few years back when I visited Vermont even though everyone can open or conceal carry there are places during certain times of the year you can not carry.

August 11, 2009, 07:07 PM	#14
Mike Irwin Staff Join Date: April 14, 2000 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 33,119	"May I point out that Rosa Parks also broke a certain law and we now hail her as a hero." The law she broke was not applied to all citizens of the state of Alabama equally. Different situation entirely. __________________ "The gift which I am sending you is called a dog, and is in fact the most precious and valuable possession of mankind" -Theodorus Gaza Baby Jesus cries when the fat redneck doesn't have military-grade firepower.

August 11, 2009, 07:31 PM	#15
armsmaster270 Senior Member Join Date: November 25, 2008 Location: California Posts: 1,750	I have CCW'ed in Vermont about 8 different times in the last 5 years and haven't seen any restrictions except when I went into the Prison I had to leave it. __________________ http://www.armsmaster.net-a.googlepages.com http://s239.photobucket.com/albums/f...aster270/Guns/ Retired LE, M.P., Sr. M.P. Investigator F.B.I. Trained Rangemaster/Firearms Instructor & Armorer, Presently Forensic Document Examiner for D.H.S.

August 11, 2009, 09:15 PM	#17
vranasaurus Senior Member Join Date: November 16, 2008 Posts: 1,145	Isn't he charged with reckless endangerment(or something like that) in addition to the actual gun charge? Even if the new york possession law were unconstitutional he wouild still be guilty of that.

August 11, 2009, 10:08 PM	#18
EricReynolds Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 393	If Plaxico Buress gets off, I for one will not see it as a day our freedom is upheld. I would go to jail. He should too. Not because NY gun laws are just, but because we ought not make things just for some. That's not fair at all. He said he thought his expired out of state permit was good here. Ignorance isn't an excuse. This got a little sidetracked. I was inquiring if I going camping in VT, could I carry? Now we're talking about Plaxico.

August 11, 2009, 10:23 PM	#19
Brian Pfleuger Staff Join Date: June 25, 2008 Location: Central, Southern NY, USA Posts: 14,489	Eric, Check the link I posted above. Vermont seems to have virtually no restriction at all. It appears to me that any non-felon age 18 or over can carry there, open or concealed. If it were me, I'd probably call VT state police and ask them-just to be safe. __________________ Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza. --- You do not HAVE a soul. You ARE a soul. You HAVE a body. -C.S. Lewis He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose. -Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.

August 11, 2009, 10:40 PM	#20
EricReynolds Senior Member Join Date: December 23, 2008 Location: Syracuse, NY Posts: 393	Thanks Pete

August 12, 2009, 11:14 AM	#23
Al Norris Staff Join Date: June 29, 2000 Location: Rupert, Idaho Posts: 8,753	Eric, I'm sorry to see your thread so far off topic. I believe your question was answered, even if you had to sort through the chaff. Closed for going irretrievably off topic. __________________ Listings of the Current 2A Cases: http://thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=416973