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Old August 6, 2009, 05:14 PM   #1
TPD211
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Sigh.... trouble sighting in a rifle.

I have a new to me Winchester Model 70 in 30-06. It is the synthetic stock. I have a new Bushnell Trophy 3X9X40 mounted on the scope base that was on the rifle when I bought it. Bought it off of GB, picked it up about a 1 1/2 hour drive away.
The problem...
I went to sight it in this week. I bore sighted it to get the scope close to point of impact. (POI) I set up at the 25 yard line, 3 shots were on paper, about 8" low & to the right. Adjusted scope, 3 more shots, these were close to center, 4" spread or so.
I move back to the 100 yard line. Shots were low so I adjusted elevation and got close to my point of aim, maybe 2" high. I adjusted scope and got close to center. Ammo is 155 grain Nosler Competition with 46.5 grains of Varget. I also shot some 168 grain JSP, unknown load.
The vertical reticle knob is adjusted all the way to the left and I'm still about 2" right of center at 100 yards on my shots.

Everything looks ok but I am not a scopeologist or gunologist by any means.

Is it the scope?, the base mounts, or what?

The rings are weaver aluminum rings. I do have some weaver metal rings I can put on instead of the aluminum weavers.

The rifle is set on a Rock Mount bi-pod.

Any constructive ideas are welcome.

Thanks,

TPD211
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Old August 6, 2009, 05:26 PM   #2
flyguyskt
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i would take the scope off and make sure you didnt bind it. sounds like your action top may be out of alignment. meaning the front or back of the action is high(not level) this is VERY common on newer rifles. could be your problem...

also make sure the action is tight in the stock.


just for giggles how many clicks to the right can you count? maybe just hung up on a burr?
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Old August 6, 2009, 05:53 PM   #3
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My Rem 30-06 knocked the guts out of a Bushnell scope although it still works fine on a .22LR It just couldn't take the recoil anymore, every shot was a "Where's Waldo".

You sound intelligent enough to have checked all of the mounting screws.
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Old August 6, 2009, 06:42 PM   #4
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Deleted, should have read OP more carefully
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Old August 6, 2009, 07:16 PM   #5
Fat White Boy
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Yeah- That's not Bushnell's best quality scope. Put out a couple hundred bucks on a better scope. Look in Cabela's Bargain Cave. You should be able to pick something up with a little higher quality...
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Old August 6, 2009, 09:08 PM   #6
cowboy33713
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Howdy-
Feel your displeasure. I learned a few ( okay- many) years ago that inexpensive optics are cheap to buy and disappointing to use. I have picked up a great used Leupold or two at reasonable cost ( a single power 6x, a Vari-X II 3x9 )that have proven statisfactory for their respective assignments. I have a Simmons "44 magnum" scope on a ( mixed manufacture build up) AR type flat-top heavy barrel upper that delivers the goods very well for the money ( which was for this shooter in short supply back when I got that scope). There were many, cheaper options available ( as there are now), but the truth is that when it comes to optics ( and rings!) you CAN spend so little you end up with stuff incapable of repeatable performance.
What do I like? Weaver style bases ( steel or aluminum; sometimes only the aluminum type are offered for a particular rifle- like my OLD tang-safety Ruger 77 in .30-06 ) Clean everything well before installing them, and use appropriate Loc-Tite on the fasteners. Let it set up! if your bases loosen while you shoot, you loose thye relationship between the scope and the barrel. The sighting error is multiplied over distance to the target, and if things got loose ( even a little) the error is unpredictable and different with every shot. Use quality rings, even though they cost more. Same reasons.
Buy the best scope you can afford. Good glass beats so-so glass by a huge bunch, great glass will spoil you for anything less. ( I do own one Nightforce scope. Look them up on the web if you don't know them. I end up measuring all other scopesI look though against it- and am sorry that I cannot afford more of them, but get by just fine remembering it has a special job, and not every scope NEEDS to have all it's features ).
Best advice? Buy the best you can afford. A number of reputable makers now have Lifetime warrenties on their scopes.
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Old August 6, 2009, 09:35 PM   #7
Art Eatman
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That you've used all the adjustment but can't center the group says to me that there's some sort of misalignment. That much should be visible to the nekkid eyebone, looking to see if the scope tube appears parallel to the barrel. If that looks good to a careful check, it could be the scope's internal adjustments.

If the tube appears somewhat misaligned: The holes in the receiver could be off, or it could be the bases. Switching bases seems to be the easiest trouble-shoot. I'd check by first swapping front to rear, and then rotating each base to see if there is any visible change in apparent misalignment. If no change, the holes are likely off-center.

To center the crosshairs, for each adjustment: Go all the way to the end of travel. Go all the way back to the other end, counting clicks or turns. Then, return halfway of the clicks or turns.

FWIW, I sight in an '06 for 2" high at 100 yards, which puts it close to dead on at 200 and about 6" low at 300.
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Old August 6, 2009, 09:46 PM   #8
LHB1
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Quote: "The vertical reticle knob is adjusted all the way to the left and I'm still about 2" right of center at 100 yards on my shots. "

Did you mean "horizontal" adjustment knob? The scope should be placed in the mounts so that the vertical adjustment knob is at the top of scope (12 o'clock position). If you have the scope rotated 90 degrees, then loosen rings and position scope correctly before going further. Then try again to sight it in.
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Last edited by LHB1; August 7, 2009 at 03:14 PM.
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Old August 7, 2009, 03:26 AM   #9
Motobie
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Also look at your mount bases and rings. Some are just horrible.
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Old August 7, 2009, 10:07 AM   #10
Uncle Buck
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Check your local pawn shops. You can find some great scopes for great prices. Even they are hurting (the pawn shops) with everyone wanting to sell and hardly anyone buying. Ask them what the best they can do on a good scope for you.
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Old August 7, 2009, 10:32 AM   #11
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The vertical reticle does control "windage" OP was correct in his explanation there. I'd first do as already alluded here previously and re-center the windage cross hair. The way to do it now that you've used a lot of adjustment would be to rotate all the way in the opposite direction, while counting clicks. Then rotate back half that number of clicks. The windage crosshair should now be centered (within it's adjustment range).

If this brings no relief, but groups are still acceptable, then the next thing I'd try is to buy some Millet rings which allow windage adjustments at the base of the rear ring. Some say this adds added stress to a scope's tube, but we are not talking a really expensive scope to begin with and short of buying a new scope, I'd buy/try these rings first. Recenter your windage adjustment, as before and then use the base screw adjustments to recenter the scope's reticle, if necessary.
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Old August 7, 2009, 12:41 PM   #12
Pathfinder45
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Leupold

Trade your scope of for a 3x9x40 Leupold and go with new steel bases and rings, leupold of course and loctite it al together. Make sure you mount the scope so you have to lean into it a little at high magnification so it won't whack your eyebrow. one more thing: Get a Walnut stock and lose the plastic, wouldja?
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Old August 7, 2009, 01:08 PM   #13
azredhawk44
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Break the machine and re-assemble it.

Don't change anything for new components yet.

Re-center all adjustments on the scope as Art suggested... go fully left til you can't anymore, then count the clicks until you go all the way right... then go 1/2 that back to center for each turret.

Remove rings, remove mount from rifle.

Inspect mount for burrs. Re-install, using blue locktite on screws. Tighten snug, but not supertight.

Inspect rings for burrs or anomalies. Reinstall, using a 1" piece of wooden dowel to check for initial alignment. Clamp down good-and-tight in place, then check the dowel for any signs of squeezing when you remove it. If so, get new rings or swap the ring orientation (front to back, back to front, rotate 180 degrees, et cetera). Rinse and repeat until the dowel is securely held in place without being damaged or torqued by the rings.

Now install the scope and bore sight.

Get thee to a range and do a 25 yard sight-in. Then 100 yards.
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Old August 7, 2009, 01:09 PM   #14
TPD211
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Thank you for the responses, great information to be had here.

LHB1 I meant the windage knob for the verticle reticle, sorry for my verbage, it did sound confusing.

As per the Bushnell Trophy scopes, I thought they were a step up from the Banner series but under the Elite series in the mid-price range and a decent scope for the money.

I'll try some or all of the suggestions here. I agree that something is not lined up right. I wonder if this is why the previous owner sold it. I bought it off of GB as the seller was only a hour drive away. It was a pawn shop, they said the owner was a out of work construction worker that sold them a number of his guns. Truth????? who knows.
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Old August 7, 2009, 09:42 PM   #15
jrothWA
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Tpd211, ...

try wrapping a dollar bill around barrel and pull down the barrel to receiver.
You 're checking to see if there is any contact between the stock and the barrel, if the dollar stop then sandpaper that area and recheck.

Make ceratin and action screws are tight.
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Old August 7, 2009, 10:08 PM   #16
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Truth????? who knows.

We're all learning here and there is no absolute 'truth' when it comes to scopes.
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Old August 8, 2009, 02:08 PM   #17
TPD211
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Took the "06 to Peterson's Gun Shop located down the street from my home. After messing with the scope mounts and base it would not align. The scope windage still had to be cranked all the way to the left to get it on center. I recentered the windage reticle. We solved this with a set of Millet Angle-Loc rings. Mounted the scope and adjusted it to center on the bore sighter via the rings. The scope is still centered for some finer adjustments once at the range.
I may free float the barrel, but I will wait and see after a range trip for final sight in.
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Old August 8, 2009, 02:09 PM   #18
TPD211
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Azredhawk44,

Lived at 43rd & Bethany Home Road for years. I worked for MCSO & Avondale P.D. in the 80's.
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Old August 8, 2009, 02:38 PM   #19
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I ran into this a few years ago with a 700 Remington and Leupold base and rings. The gun shot way low at 25 yards. After the mounting 3 scopes and having the same problem, I put a different set of mounts on it. Problem solved. Sometimes it's not the scope.
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