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Old August 6, 2009, 12:01 PM   #1
Nnobby45
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California criminal release

A Federal three judge panel just ruled on a series of law suits, (some over a decade old), and ordered the State of Calif. to release 43,000 prison inmates.

It hasn't been worked out yet how the bankrupt state will accomplish the task. Before the ruling they wanted to release 27K to save money.

Wonder how much they save re-arresting, trying, and putting them back where they came from.



Before they find their way back to the same prisons they came from, I wonder how many citizens will be murdered, raped, robbed, and so forth.



It's reported that Californians are a bit nervous at this point.

Last edited by Nnobby45; August 6, 2009 at 12:28 PM.
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Old August 6, 2009, 01:43 PM   #2
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Well I found some news stories on this. Looks like this is Californias fault and the state government has grossly neglected the prison system.

Not like they will be the only state to not intern non-violent offenders.
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Old August 6, 2009, 02:15 PM   #3
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Socialism at its finest. Tax payers keep paying all these LE agencies to treat gang sodiers as citizens and keep locking them up over and over again. Gangs do not have that many people; it would be easy for LE to wipe them out as enemies of the state, Rebels, War criminals, w.e you want to call it. Bottom line these people are at war with the USA, and they should be treated as enemy soldiers.
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Old August 7, 2009, 01:30 PM   #4
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Interesting concept

Quote:
Bottom line these people are at war with the USA, and they should be treated as enemy soldiers.
When we capture enemy soldiers we put them in POW camps! Kind of like jail/ prison. And, enemy soldiers have rights under US law.

Just how is that different?
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Old August 7, 2009, 03:04 PM   #5
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They could save alot by deporting all the illegals in California prisons. Last I heard that was about 40% of the prison population in California.
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Old August 7, 2009, 03:21 PM   #6
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It's different because rights of US citizens apply to these enemy soldiers, and police have to go through all the legalities of evidence, magistrates, reasonable suspicion and search warrants etc , it's absurd. Gang Territory is enemy territory. Go wipe em out, I don't want to keep paying 20 f'n angencies who are useless because they are not allowed to do their job. I'm sorry but if you have a giant army wiping out global terrorist you need to wipe out domestic terrorists. I start a gang and go claim territory within a sovereign country, ITS AN ACT OF WAR.
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Old August 7, 2009, 03:30 PM   #7
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Quote:
Bottom line these people are at war with the USA, and they should be treated as enemy soldiers.


So you're ok with flushing the Constitution down the toilet then?
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Old August 7, 2009, 03:33 PM   #8
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Constitution shouldn't protect Enemy soldiers, It should protect citizens from wasting tax money on usless LE systems. Just because we want to be nice.
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Old August 7, 2009, 03:39 PM   #9
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what enemy soldiers are you speaking of? Or are you just labeling all criminals as soldiers? I'm not following, please explain, I'd like to understand where you're coming from. We're talking about prisoners that probably were jailed for non violent drug crimes, some for harsher crimes I'm sure, but how can you say that the Constitution shouldn't apply when in fact it most certainly should.
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Old August 7, 2009, 03:46 PM   #10
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The gangs, the gang problem. It's ludicrous to leave 3,000 gang members setting around in the states creating domestic crimes over and over again, trafficking in illegal goods - over and over again.

How easy is it to just wipe out 3,000 gang members instead of wasting money arresting them, jailing them, paying for their trials, then on top of it - providing care of all forms while in prison. Gang membes are enemy soldiers, they show up, form a militia and take over sovereign territory.

I am not commenting on non-violent criminals. I read the post as "violent criminals" and i know california is infested with gangs, or is this not accurate?
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Old August 7, 2009, 04:08 PM   #11
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Quote:
How easy is it to just wipe out 3,000 gang members instead of wasting money arresting them, jailing them, paying for their trials
I wasn't disputing the level of difficulty, I was disputing your comment when you stated that the Constitution shouldn't apply to them. In this case you can't pick and choose who the Constitution applies to.

Quote:
and i know california is infested with gangs, or is this not accurate?
so all of the 43,000 prisoners are gang members? The OP should have put a link to an article on it. http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090805/...rnia_prisons_3

This article stated, " plans to release ailing and short-term inmates for budget issues." Typically violent offenders aren't given a short term, thats usually given to small time drug offenders and such.

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Old August 7, 2009, 04:12 PM   #12
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Ok, good points, wasn't trying to be argumentative. You got me rethinking my initial thoughts. Non-violent criminals being released isn't to bad i guess. Still, something has to be done to address the cost issues of keping prisoners.
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Old August 15, 2009, 09:52 AM   #13
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Last edited by Poseidon28; August 17, 2009 at 05:40 PM. Reason: off topic
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Old August 15, 2009, 10:48 AM   #14
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There are a few things going on here.
  • The US locks up a higher percentage of its population than anybody else. The government at all levels has simply stuck its nose into too many things.
  • The legislature doesn't fart without the blessing of the prison guards' union. They own the state legislature. They also owned the last governor who gave them a 40% raise as a thank you for their election support ($$$). There are guards raking in $120,000 with overtime.
  • At the insistence ($$$) of the guards' union the legislature outlawed outsourcing confinement of prisoners.
  • At the insistence of other unions ($$$) the legislature insists that only the most expensive labor be used to build new prisons making expansion of the system unaffordable.
  • At the insistence of the farm workers unions (mostly illegals) the legislature has made it illegal to recoup the cost of imprisonment by renting out prisoners to harvest crops.
My solutions may not be popular but there isn't any more money to throw at the problem.
  1. Stop prosecuting people for victimless crimes.
  2. Outsource prisons to the low bidder and make them add the additional prison space.
  3. Stop with the union set-asides and prevailing wage laws/rules for government contracts to get costs under control.
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Old August 15, 2009, 11:38 AM   #15
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humor, off topic

Last edited by Poseidon28; August 17, 2009 at 05:39 PM. Reason: humor, off topic
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Old August 15, 2009, 11:42 AM   #16
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The Land of the Free

As long as you don't break one (or more) of the hundreds of thousands of laws we have in this country.

People go to prison for buying or selling the wrong thing. Or doing it in the wrong way. Or at the wrong time. For owning a piece of metal and wood too long, or too short. For thounds upon thousands of things that are essentially meaningless crimes that hurt no one, or at worst hurt the individual doing it and no one else. Do you know that attempted suicide is a crime? (suicide isn't, I wonder why?)

When prison conditions in the US are better than the living conditions of the poor in other places, is it any wonder why so many come here? The worst thing the US can do to them is send them back. And we don't do that, in significant numbers.

Releasing criminals into society to save money? Seems like a self perpetuating employment system for government, particularly everyone involved in law enforcement, judicial, and the penal system.

Other than a relatively small number of people who run afoul of the system, the majority of people in prisons are there because they willfully and deliberately did things that got them put there. Of course, none of them ever planned on getting caught, but they were. Why would any rational person think that when they are released, that they will not simply pick up where they left off?

How much of the "saved" money will be channeled into parole officers to monitor these people to help prevent them from committing more crimes, I wonder? Not enough, I would guess. And when more crimes are committed, the public will demand more law enforcement.

Perhaps the root cause of the problem of not having enough money and space to house and care for criminals is the fact that so many things are crimes? And not doing enough to fix the problem actually keeps more people in government employed.

Here's a thought, I wonder how much money California would save if they only had one gun control law. "shoot someone unjustifiably, go to prison". Scrap all the rest, and use there people who spend their time getting paid to enforce them for other things. Things like apprehending violent criminals, not somebody who didn't file the correct form the proper way.
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Old August 15, 2009, 11:47 AM   #17
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Rescind every gun law local and state that has been passed in California since 1900, then release the criminals. A program to supply training and practice ammo for new gun owners will be cheaper that replacing felons back into the system. Replacement of ammo for anybody who uses their gun to take out the trash. The state will save money and lawbreakers will find other occupations or other places to live. California would be a fun place for me to visit again.
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Old August 15, 2009, 11:56 AM   #18
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You don't hear about early prison releases in Maricopa County, Arizona. Think how much money they would save on utilities and food if they had a small time prison set up like what Sheriff Joe has down there. There are plenty of people who are in prison who could do their time in county jails.
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Old August 15, 2009, 12:27 PM   #19
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Your asking for a political revolution, in Kali. Those groups still seem to own Arnold, and, he sure panders to the now majority Mexican vote..
Arnold isn't the problem. The problem is the legislature and the public employees' unions that own their bought and paid for legislature. Arnold is a weakling but still has more backbone than the weasel that he replaced. We have lots of problems here but it boils down to too many laws and too much union control of the state government, and too many illegals. We have government by, of, and exclusively for the benefit of the public employees' unions. We have gerrymandered districts and campaign finance laws that have blocked democracy for decades. We have government run schools that turn out functionally illiterate kids because it's the happiness of the staff that matters not the futures of the kids. We have 3.5-5 million illegals (10-15% of our population) sucking up in excess of $10.5B in scarce resources including nearly $2B to lock up those that come here to commit crimes. And we have a media that is as protective of liberalism and unions and illegal aliens as the national media is of Washington's liberalism. But it all boils down to too much government getting involved in too many things that are none of its business and not enough border enforcement. Unfortunately things will not be allowed to change. The unions and the media will never allow it.
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Old August 15, 2009, 01:03 PM   #20
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You mean we lost the war on drugs.?
By What metric did we have any chance of winning?.. if ever!

Quote:
You don't hear about early prison releases in Maricopa County, Arizona. Think how much money they would save on utilities and food if they had a small time prison set up like what Sheriff Joe has down there. There are plenty of people who are in prison who could do their time in county jails.
You don't hear much about Maricopa County, except the sheriff being unpredictable and vindictive. A real model of how LE should be
http://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/s...0/daily68.html
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Old August 16, 2009, 12:49 PM   #21
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Old August 31, 2009, 05:18 PM   #22
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Being a native Californian it's a shame to see what's going on in the once golden State of California. Their are many issues for us to blame and yes I do believe the public unions are way out of control. Another issue is illegal immigration which in it self cost the state more than the states deficit. No one in state government desires to address the negative impact illegal immigration is having on the once golden state. I know politicians don't want to lose the potential vote of the future of states majority whose loyalty is that of the country they are fleeing if that makes any sense.
This is just one of the many issues Ca must address to get California back on track. Until we stop the unlawful invasion of this State as many others we will see more states becoming financial disasters. This is not a race issue but an issue of legality and national sovereignty. We do not need immigration reform but immigration enforcement.
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Old September 2, 2009, 05:47 AM   #23
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The US locks up a higher percentage of its population than anybody else. The government at all levels has simply stuck its nose into too many things.
A misleading and useless statistic that does not give support to the conclusion following.

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Old September 2, 2009, 09:45 AM   #24
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w_houle: My point being, if we would start to treat prisoners as prisoners (Those who really deserve it) instead of misguided little boys and girls who need cable TV and three magazine subscriptions, maybe things would be different.
Why in the world do we need to provide these people with a/c? Coffee? I wish that I had had coffee and A/C when I was stuck in Kuwait and Saudi Arabia. I lived in a tent, sweated my butt off during the day and froze at night. I came through it alright.
Most prisoners have better living conditions than our military. A friend of mine serves on submarines and he has to hot bunk and he works with nuclear power. (He can not go to bed until the guy in the bunk gets out to go to work, for those that may not know the term.)

Quit coddling them and maybe they will not be back.

I have visited US Service members in prisons in Korea, The Philippines and Japan. No wonder they want to come back to the US to serve their time.
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Old September 2, 2009, 10:04 AM   #25
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Every, and I mean EVERY sadistic violent crime and EVERY sadistic crime against a child.... that person should looses ALL rights and be given the death penatly immeditaly with there organs harvested and given to people that need them...the rest of there bodies given to science..
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