Is the local pawn shop breaking the law?

HellBillySuperstar · June 9, 2009, 06:50 PM

I recently purchased a box of .45 acp from a local pawn shop. The box was name brand and so was all of the ammo.

Some Federal

A few Remington....

And some brass that wasn't marked with a manufacturer.

I think they are reloading ammo and selling it in name brand boxes.

Dfariswheel · June 9, 2009, 07:01 PM

Depends.
If the ammo is sold as factory-new, but its really reloaded, that could be fraud.
If the ammo is all new, but the box is filled with different brands of ammo, there's no law against that, but few smart buyers would be willing to buy it unless its a really good price.

scottaschultz · June 9, 2009, 07:06 PM

We've all been complaining for months about the ammunition shortage and here a guy finds some and is complaining about that!!!

There is just no pleasing some people. Some people would complain if they were hanged with a new rope!

Scott

Shadi Khalil · June 9, 2009, 07:09 PM

Quote:

We've all been complaining for months about the ammunition shortage and here a guy finds some and is complaining about that!!!

There is just no pleasing some people. Some people would complain if they were hanged with a new rope!

Scott

Why should anyone pay a premium price for someones bootleg, potentially dangerous ammo? I hope your not serious.

HellBillySuperstar · June 9, 2009, 07:13 PM

Oh I'm not complaining, I was just curious. I checked all the rounds over and they all seemed to be in good shape. The box was $15 for 50, so I bought it even knowing they were all something different. I just wondered if it was something they could legally do. The shop here in town has had a few run ins with the law and from what I have been told they even lost their FFL once. The story I was given from the guy at the counter was that they were all "factory" rounds that had been traded in with a pistol. The only reason I found it hard to believe was because I traded in 100 rounds with my .40 and they boxed them in plain white boxes and marked them as assorted brands.

Keltyke · June 9, 2009, 07:32 PM

Quote:

I think they are reloading ammo and selling it in name brand boxes.

If they mark it as "reloaded", they're ok. If not, that's fraud under the truth in advertising laws.

chris in va · June 9, 2009, 07:54 PM

Huh. I'm trying to figger out what manufacturer wouldn't stamp their brass. No marks at all? What does the box say?

HellBillySuperstar · August 15, 2009, 04:29 PM

So I finally got out to shoot up this box of ammo. Threw a bowling pin out and started having at it. The third round felt funny. It didn't seem to recoil as much as normal and it looked like the explosion came from around the chamber instead of the end of the barrel. I dropped the mag and racked the slide back and checked the barrel for an obstruction, there was none so I slid my mag back in and continued on. After finishing up the few rounds I had left I started picking up brass when I found one with the primer set off and the bullet still in the casing. It seems like it just barely dislodged the bullet. Just enough for the flame to shoot out around it.

So I wont be buying any more ammo from the local pawn shop!!

brickeyee · August 15, 2009, 05:02 PM

You need an ammunition manufacturer's FFL to make and sell ammunition.

A regular pawn shop type FFL is not adequate.

Lost Sheep · August 15, 2009, 06:39 PM

It seems, to me, likely that this pawn shop is selling ammo it received from someone off the street. Maybe brought in with a gun, and now they are selling the ammo separately.

Does the phrase "Without warranty" or the phrase "As-Is" appear on the sales receipt? Pawn shops are "Caveat emptor" sellers (buyer beware).

As far as the headstamp on the brass not matching the box labelling, that is completely understandable if these are reloads. (I used to store all my reloaded brass in the same box I bought the original, factory ammo in, but eventually, some brass got mixed up with other brass, so now I have Remington 357s mixed up with Federal 357s and Winchester 357s. Those do not get heavy loads and are only for plinking. Serious ammo is still segregated.)

I would assume a box of mixed headstamps or headstamps not matching the box label are reloads and it is anybody's guess as to who reloaded them, the pawn shop, the guy who sold them to the shop or his next-door neighbor's demented buddy who scrounges range brass. No provenance, no shoot. But then, I am a little hypocritical; I have bought used brass advertised as "once fired" but, after examination, I believe probably to be of unknown history. I am not throwing them out, so I will load'em up and shoot them. After inspection.

Lost Sheep

Lost Sheep · August 15, 2009, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottaschultz

There is just no pleasing some people. Some people would complain if they were hanged with a new rope!
Scott

Scott,

Darned right! I would complain about being hung wit ANY rope!

New ropes are stiff and scratchy. I don't want my corpse to have a rash on its neck. Old ropes are much more comfortable.

However, an old rope is likely to be more stretchy and not give a good <SNAP>. Nothing worse in a hanging that not to get a good, clean break of the neck.

I first heard that homily 50 years ago and still have not figured out whether it is supposed to be a new rope or an old rope.

Lost Sheep.

4719dave · August 15, 2009, 07:49 PM

Guys im new to the site .I was told by a pawn shop that they couldnt take in ammo ,Bad mojo shooting unknown reloads

jmr40 · August 16, 2009, 08:35 AM

The pawnshop where I hang out has a box of ammo on the counter. People often bring in partial boxes of ammo when they trade. The owner puts them in the box and sells it for next to nothing. A lot of the rounds are just loose in the bottom.

Double Naught Spy · August 16, 2009, 09:30 AM

Quote:

If they mark it as "reloaded", they're ok. If not, that's fraud under the truth in advertising laws.

Not necessarily.

Quote:

It seems, to me, likely that this pawn shop is selling ammo it received from someone off the street. Maybe brought in with a gun, and now they are selling the ammo separately.

Right, they are likely just selling what they received.

Quote:

Does the phrase "Without warranty" or the phrase "As-Is" appear on the sales receipt? Pawn shops are "Caveat emptor" sellers (buyer beware).

I don't know about all states, but such phrases are not necessary on receipts in many (most/all?).

It seems, to me, likely that this pawn shop is selling ammo it received from someone off the street. Maybe brought in with a gun, and now they are selling the ammo separately.

Does the phrase "Without warranty" or the phrase "As-Is" appear on the sales receipt? Pawn shops are "Caveat emptor" sellers (buyer beware).

It seems, to me, likely that this pawn shop is selling ammo it received from someone off the street. Maybe brought in with a gun, and now they are selling the ammo separately.

Quote:

Guys im new to the site .I was told by a pawn shop that they couldnt take in ammo ,Bad mojo shooting unknown reloads

More than likely, they COULD take in ammo if they so desired. It likely isn't that they can't, but won't.

Lurch37 · August 16, 2009, 12:15 PM

The pawn shop here marks ammo they take in on trade as "brass only". I take that to mean it may be good to shoot or maybe not so good to shoot, so to me it's as like your buying it "as-is". In my case, I do buy a lot of it as it is generally cheaper than factory new, but I'm careful when looking it over. I do NOT buy ammo that looks rusty or poorly stored or whatever. The original poster said he paid $15 for 50 rounds which is a decent price, but nothing fantastic as WWB, (if you can find it), is around $30 for a 100 rounds. To top it off though it sounds as if he had a squib load which is bad news.

HellBillySuperstar, I'm surprised that squib had enough energy to function your slide and even eject the non-empty. I've had some duds in the past, dented primer but no bang, but I've never had a primer pop without the resulting big bang so your experience is very interesting.

NickySantoro · August 16, 2009, 12:37 PM

Is the local pawn shop breaking the law?

Was it represented to be reloads or NIB factory? What did you ask for? What did they tell you it was? I've bought reloads in factory boxes but it was bought as reloads.

dogtown tom · August 16, 2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

brickeyee: You need an ammunition manufacturer's FFL to make and sell ammunition.

A regular pawn shop type FFL is not adequate.

No FFL is required (by anyone) to sell ammunition.

The only time an FFL is requred is if you are importing or manufacturing ammunition for sale.

From the ATF Firearms FAQ's:

Quote:

(F11) Is a license required to engage in the business of selling small arms ammunition? [Back]

No. A license is not required for a dealer in ammunition only, but a manufacturer or an importer of ammunition must be licensed.

[18 U.S.C. 922 (a)(1)(B)]

June 9, 2009, 06:50 PM	#1
HellBillySuperstar Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 116	Is the local pawn shop breaking the law? I recently purchased a box of .45 acp from a local pawn shop. The box was name brand and so was all of the ammo. Some Federal A few Remington.... And some brass that wasn't marked with a manufacturer. I think they are reloading ammo and selling it in name brand boxes. __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

June 9, 2009, 07:13 PM	#5
HellBillySuperstar Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 116	Oh I'm not complaining, I was just curious. I checked all the rounds over and they all seemed to be in good shape. The box was $15 for 50, so I bought it even knowing they were all something different. I just wondered if it was something they could legally do. The shop here in town has had a few run ins with the law and from what I have been told they even lost their FFL once. The story I was given from the guy at the counter was that they were all "factory" rounds that had been traded in with a pistol. The only reason I found it hard to believe was because I traded in 100 rounds with my .40 and they boxed them in plain white boxes and marked them as assorted brands. __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

August 15, 2009, 04:29 PM	#8
HellBillySuperstar Senior Member Join Date: May 9, 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 116	It's an old thread coming back! So I finally got out to shoot up this box of ammo. Threw a bowling pin out and started having at it. The third round felt funny. It didn't seem to recoil as much as normal and it looked like the explosion came from around the chamber instead of the end of the barrel. I dropped the mag and racked the slide back and checked the barrel for an obstruction, there was none so I slid my mag back in and continued on. After finishing up the few rounds I had left I started picking up brass when I found one with the primer set off and the bullet still in the casing. It seems like it just barely dislodged the bullet. Just enough for the flame to shoot out around it. So I wont be buying any more ammo from the local pawn shop!! __________________ Si vis pacem, para bellum

August 15, 2009, 06:39 PM	#10
Lost Sheep Senior Member Join Date: January 24, 2009 Location: Anchorage Alaska Posts: 2,710	Trade-in ammo? It seems, to me, likely that this pawn shop is selling ammo it received from someone off the street. Maybe brought in with a gun, and now they are selling the ammo separately. Does the phrase "Without warranty" or the phrase "As-Is" appear on the sales receipt? Pawn shops are "Caveat emptor" sellers (buyer beware). As far as the headstamp on the brass not matching the box labelling, that is completely understandable if these are reloads. (I used to store all my reloaded brass in the same box I bought the original, factory ammo in, but eventually, some brass got mixed up with other brass, so now I have Remington 357s mixed up with Federal 357s and Winchester 357s. Those do not get heavy loads and are only for plinking. Serious ammo is still segregated.) I would assume a box of mixed headstamps or headstamps not matching the box label are reloads and it is anybody's guess as to who reloaded them, the pawn shop, the guy who sold them to the shop or his next-door neighbor's demented buddy who scrounges range brass. No provenance, no shoot. But then, I am a little hypocritical; I have bought used brass advertised as "once fired" but, after examination, I believe probably to be of unknown history. I am not throwing them out, so I will load'em up and shoot them. After inspection. Lost Sheep

August 15, 2009, 07:49 PM	#12
4719dave Junior Member Join Date: January 25, 2009 Location: port charlotte fl Posts: 6	misc ammo Guys im new to the site .I was told by a pawn shop that they couldnt take in ammo ,Bad mojo shooting unknown reloads

June 9, 2009, 07:01 PM	#2
Dfariswheel Senior Member Join Date: May 4, 2001 Posts: 6,573	Depends. If the ammo is sold as factory-new, but its really reloaded, that could be fraud. If the ammo is all new, but the box is filled with different brands of ammo, there's no law against that, but few smart buyers would be willing to buy it unless its a really good price.

June 9, 2009, 07:06 PM	#3
scottaschultz Senior Member Join Date: February 27, 2009 Location: Missouri Posts: 392	We've all been complaining for months about the ammunition shortage and here a guy finds some and is complaining about that!!! There is just no pleasing some people. Some people would complain if they were hanged with a new rope! Scott

June 9, 2009, 07:54 PM	#7
chris in va Senior Member Join Date: December 26, 2004 Location: Louisville KY Posts: 11,718	Huh. I'm trying to figger out what manufacturer wouldn't stamp their brass. No marks at all? What does the box say?

August 15, 2009, 05:02 PM	#9
brickeyee Senior Member Join Date: December 29, 2004 Posts: 3,342	You need an ammunition manufacturer's FFL to make and sell ammunition. A regular pawn shop type FFL is not adequate.

August 16, 2009, 08:35 AM	#13
jmr40 Senior Member Join Date: June 15, 2008 Location: Georgia Posts: 4,481	The pawnshop where I hang out has a box of ammo on the counter. People often bring in partial boxes of ammo when they trade. The owner puts them in the box and sells it for next to nothing. A lot of the rounds are just loose in the bottom.

August 16, 2009, 12:15 PM	#15
Lurch37 Senior Member Join Date: August 7, 2006 Location: Middle of Nebraska Posts: 703	The pawn shop here marks ammo they take in on trade as "brass only". I take that to mean it may be good to shoot or maybe not so good to shoot, so to me it's as like your buying it "as-is". In my case, I do buy a lot of it as it is generally cheaper than factory new, but I'm careful when looking it over. I do NOT buy ammo that looks rusty or poorly stored or whatever. The original poster said he paid $15 for 50 rounds which is a decent price, but nothing fantastic as WWB, (if you can find it), is around $30 for a 100 rounds. To top it off though it sounds as if he had a squib load which is bad news. HellBillySuperstar, I'm surprised that squib had enough energy to function your slide and even eject the non-empty. I've had some duds in the past, dented primer but no bang, but I've never had a primer pop without the resulting big bang so your experience is very interesting. __________________ I reject your reality and substitute my own.

August 16, 2009, 12:37 PM	#16
NickySantoro Senior Member Join Date: July 14, 2008 Posts: 195	Is the local pawn shop breaking the law? Was it represented to be reloads or NIB factory? What did you ask for? What did they tell you it was? I've bought reloads in factory boxes but it was bought as reloads.