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Old August 4, 2009, 11:54 AM   #26
5whiskey
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The M-16 I we used for qualification in ROTC jammed constantly, and yes we cleaned and lubed them.
I admit that M16s are a little more finicky of a design than AKs... however in a professional army with trained armourers and soldiers an M-16 is just as reliable. What I'm really saying is... I'm not sure ROTC rifles would be the best examples of a well kept rifle. The ROTC unit probably obtained them from the military after they had already been rode hard and put away wet, and I would be willing to bet that their tenure at ROTC wouldn't see the same quality of maintainence that you would get from the Army or Marine Corps. There are a few things that will cause an M-16 to jam besides being dirty. Most of them are easy fixes. AKs are less prone to jamming because they could slam a square peg into the round chamber from spring tension alone. BTW, I have seen many an SKS that was a jam-o-matic. I'm not talking about bubba'd conversions either.

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Cheap is not the bottom line for popularity, if it's cheap and crappy, most people will avoid. Look at Jimenez/Davis/Jennings/Bryco, it seems like 95% of the people that have something to say about them, have something bad to say. If people ask on this board, "should I get one of these?" The answer will be a unanimous no. Some go so far as to debate whether it's better to have no gun at all, than relying on one of these "ring of fire" pistols.

In contrast, when someone asks, "should I get a Tokarev?" The response would be a near-unanimous "Heck yeah, you should!" I like inexpensive firearms, the most I've spent in any gun is $240. I could get a brand new Jimenez .22 for $119 or a .380 for $189, so if cheap were the bottom line, I'd have one already, or two. And yet, there is not a chance in the world I would ever get one, unless it was given to me for free, and even then, I'd probably use it as a trade-in for something else, best to do that before it gets a chance to get broken. And yet, I, and many here, have no issue at all with getting a used, 50+ year-old Tokarev and almost no one regrets their purchase. If these guns were bad, then even low prices would not afford them the popularity that they have.
I agree with this post 100%... as long as you accept that there are cheap, reasonably accurate, reliable firearms to be had but they usually aren't as wonderful and great as some make them out to be. We've all heard the unreal stories about an AK. They never jam. You never clean them. They never rust. They never malfunction. You can run it over with a tank and it will still fire. While I think they were excellent firearms for the money (before they went up drastically), don't turn them into something they're not. I've seen them jam, you can not throw one in salt water for 2 years and then pulll it out and fire it, and a tank will flatten the stamped reciever. Great weapons, but just as everything else they have their limitations.
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Old August 4, 2009, 04:16 PM   #27
Mr. James
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I agree with this post 100%!

Quote:
I agree with this post 100%... as long as you accept that there are cheap, reasonably accurate, reliable firearms to be had but they usually aren't as wonderful and great as some make them out to be. We've all heard the unreal stories about an AK. They never jam. You never clean them. They never rust. They never malfunction. You can run it over with a tank and it will still fire. While I think they were excellent firearms for the money (before they went up drastically), don't turn them into something they're not. I've seen them jam, you can not throw one in salt water for 2 years and then pulll it out and fire it, and a tank will flatten the stamped reciever. Great weapons, but just as everything else they have their limitations.
There are other reasons folks buy Russian-made or -designed weapons I haven't seen mentioned yet, including the relative novelty of them, the historic significance of them, and the simple I-don't-have-one-of-those factor.

I happen to have an CKC and a Mosin-Nagant 91/30, and will, no doubt, add other Russian/Soviet weapons (including possibly a handgun or two) as time goes on. They are fun to shoot. They are reasonably accurate for their intended purpose.

Works of firearms artistry they ain't!
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Old August 11, 2009, 03:29 PM   #28
Ian0351
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Who ever said the Russians were smart? How about the political intelligentsia in America for almost 40 years? Can you think of another reason that we spent countless hundreds of billions of dollars building nuclear weapons, trying to improve our submarine design and funding CIA operations to learn about and de-stabilize the second most powerful regime in the world post WWII? Regardless of the eventual outcome of the Cold War, at the time it was very real and very scary.

I think ignorant is more apt than offensive.
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Old August 13, 2009, 10:45 AM   #29
digdeep74
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I remember watching.......

I remember watching one of those reality tv shows that shows fights and different police videos and seeing soome of the training those guys go through and it looked extremely painfull.
There being hazed by kicked and punched over and over to build tolerence to pain.
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