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Old July 28, 2009, 05:32 PM   #1
priler
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the truth of militec-1

there have been many people that swear all up and down in favor of militec-1 as the best lube and/or clp on the face of the planet.you can also find on some post in forums and even web sites,horror stories of how the people in charge of procurement for our military do not want to give the best product to our fighting men and women and how there is some kind of cover up. in other words,some kind of conspiracy.


you will also find people that have used militec-1 in the "sand box" that swear by the product and proud family members who have shipped the product to them in order for them to have the best to work with.


is there any real truth to this in how the product performs? is there any truth that the people in charge don't want them using this because of any nefarious reasons?


i though about the best way to answer this and realised that there are two ways.i either give a technical explanation on my own as to why all of this simply is not true and offer an explanation of what the product can and can not do based on what i know...or....find some official explanation and,hopefully,drastically reduce any hearsay and/or opinion.


i've decided on the latter for the most part,so without any further explanation on my part,here is a link explaning and shedding alot of light on the relationship between militec-1,the company who produces it and the DOD(department of defence) and decisions on giving it a stock number.


here:gao.gov/new.items/d09735r.pdf


for anyone that really wants to know the TRUTH on this issue AND shed some light on how militec-1 actually works,please take the time to read it all as it is worthwhile and keep in mind that some,but not all, is in the need for something that works well with,but not limited to,the m16 family of weapons.


i will give my further opinion depending on how this thread goes.
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Old July 28, 2009, 10:59 PM   #2
plainsman456
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I read the report and I have never heard of this product.I use FP-10 on my ar-15 as it is a conditioner and a lube.The feds supply chain works in wierd ways and they test all the time to see if stuff still works like it did in the first tests.It would be interesting to hear more about this.Good Luck
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Old July 29, 2009, 12:29 AM   #3
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I was issued Mil tec, or however it's spelled, about a month after I arrived in theater ( Iraq). I recall there was some difficulty at first, because people were using it like CLP, just wiping it on, then leaving a light coating behind. If you do that IT IS NO BETTER THAN CLP! However, if you use it like you are instructed, it works like a charm. First, you rub a light coating onto whatever part you are cleaning, then expose it to heat. Either direct sunlight or you can use a bic lighter. Obviously, you don't want to expose your bolt to direct heat, so keep the flame a decent distance away. When Mil Tec dries, there is no coating of oil on your parts. They just look really shiny. That stuff works awesome. If you do it every couple of days, the stuff never fails. Another fun trick is if you are having a problem with your M249, you can use graphite spray in a pinch. Just be ready for a horrible cleaning experience afterward.
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Old July 29, 2009, 08:37 AM   #4
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I read the report at the link you provided. Interesting. I have never used the stuff (never heard of it before actually) but I was really interested in the part about the "Continued exposure to service members...." could cause problems. Carcinogen's is something our health care system does not need to be burdened with in 25 years.

The DOD is pretty rigorous in their testing procedures and I honestly believe they try to find the best for our troops, so long as we do not have to spend a lot of money. I think they found what they were looking for (A wider application or use of product) in the other tested product. i.e., they have a product which offers even more benefits than this Militec-1.

Remember, the supply chain is ENOURMOUS and the weapons are being used in so many different environments. I used to have to play heck and threaten my guys with disciplinary action to get them to clean their rifles and pistols. One of the responses in this thread was "If you do it every couple of days..." I did not have time to supervise the cleaning of weapons every couple of days. I did not have the time to ensure it was done correctly. I would inspect the weapons and the ones who tried to pass a dirty weapon got their butts chewed and had to do it again. Repeat offenders, and there were many of them, had to start cleaning multiple weapons. I was in charge of only 35 people and about 60 weapons. Imagine some of these guys who are in charge of hundreds of weapons... Where do they get the time to clean and inspect all of them?

I know a clean and functional weapon is a personal responsibility, but you would be amazed at the number of people who either are too tired to do it right or just don't give a wharf rats butt about cleaning it. "But Master Sergeant Buck, it will still shoot..." was a very popular explanation as to why they had not cleaned their rifles or handguns.

If you want to use the militech-1, go ahead, I am sure it is a good product, but wear latex gloves when using it.

Anyway, sorry about the long rant, this is a peeve of mine because I hear of so many companies that want to get into the federal supply chain, not because they have the best interest of our soldiers in mind, but because then they can make more money. Anyone that just wants to make more money on the backs of our fighting men and women with no regard as to the quality of their product or service are lowlifes.

My above comment was not directed at the militech people, but the veterans you talk to can tell you of other products that did not work like they were supposed to, or fell apart after a few uses. That was one of the reasons behind the DOD setting up testing facilities.

I really hope the militec people provide the DOD with what was requested and in further testing they make the grade.
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Old July 29, 2009, 08:37 AM   #5
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Just another "gimmick", "bonds to the metal on a molecular level...." crankcase additive that's been repackaged to sell at outrageous prices to the gullible.

If Mobil 1 won't lube it, you don't need it!!!
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Old July 29, 2009, 08:49 AM   #6
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And to think, Snake Oil used to be limited to the internal combustion engine.

News flash everyone. You know what works best for your guns..........

Whichever one you feel most comfortable using because I have never seen a clean weapon fail from bad oil.
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Old July 29, 2009, 02:47 PM   #7
priler
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well,i thought i was going to get alot of koolaid drinkers but i have to agree on all the post so far,with one exception.

you know,i don't mind if a company uses our flag to sell their products and even don't mind if they take on religious over-tones...BUT,when they use our dying men and women by making certain suggestion,well,that kind of ticks me off.hence,why i posted the document.clearly the army DOES know what militec can and can not do.the fact that some people buy into this is just amazing.

obviously,some of the success stories are because they are using it in conjuction with what they are issued but none of that is a substitute for cleaning at every opportunity you get.

as a stand alone product in combat,it is highly overrated.at the range,who cares what you use.

like many other companies,their combination of ingredients might be a propietary mix,that somebody else invented the individual chemicals.they might keep the formula a secret but i think it's obvious that it's a high grade oils combined with lubricity improvers and use bi-polar technology...or something similar to that....but one that lacks good cleaning and protection agents,obviously.there are others out there that are much better.

you will find this type of technology in the better motor oils out there too.

as an aside,imo,in a rifle that uses the m16 type of direct gas impede system,if you use a dry lube(any type of dry lube) what you end up with is dry grit,especially in a sandy environment. if you use a wet lube(almost any type of quality wet lube),what you end up with is mud...wet mud.

of these two ways,dry grit or wet mud,imo,an m16 will run better and much more reliably in wet mud.
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Old July 29, 2009, 05:47 PM   #8
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Wow. Thank you for posting that.
After reading the article (yes, unlike our Congressmen, I actually read before I vote) I am ready to cast my vote:

I will never buy Militec, and will post a link to that article whenever I read the fanboys getting cranked up.
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Old July 29, 2009, 08:55 PM   #9
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I bought some about 10 years ago and it worked just fine as a lube if applied to bare metal and heated according to the instructions. Luckily my home is heated with hot water radiators, so it's easy to warm up a gun (or dry one out for that matter.)

Okay, the stuff works well enough as a lube, but you can't just slop it on so it is a little extra trouble. But everything else I've lubed with for 40-some years works to some degree and I've tried most everything and have the half-full bottles to prove it. Does that make me a lube collector?

My favorite lube for pocket carry is TW25B. I stumbled across it many years ago and it worked - you can just blow the lint off the gun.

John

P.S. - When I start questioning what I really know about lube I just go reread one of Mr. Vickers' posts, or his site http://vickerstactical.com/tactical-...n-lubrication/

You go tell him he shouldn't like Militec. He doesn't suffer fools lightly, so be forewarned.

Last edited by johnbt; July 29, 2009 at 09:01 PM.
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Old July 29, 2009, 10:35 PM   #10
Jim Watson
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Quote:
With wet lubes like Militec you have to lubricate your weapon more frequently than with a grease like TW25B
Seems Mr V. likes the consistency of Militec-1 but does not buy into the metallic bond mystique, he just applies it "wet" like any medium viscosity oil.

I tried it with the heat to bond technique and saw little effect.

Since it is labeled as a lubricating oil additive, I will use it as such, I have some plain milsurp oil that it ought to go well with.
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Old July 30, 2009, 12:12 AM   #11
priler
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some of the wording use to describe the whole "bond to metal",is just word play. by there own definition,there's lots of lubes and even other substances,like water,that will adhere at a molecular level.

yes,if you burnish it on,it will create a slippery surface on metal,but my concern would be an insufficiently strong and proper boundary layer and not allow heat to develop.burnishing on militec like that,specifically because it's an oil additive,it's flash hot spots that worry me.i'm not sure what temperatures these spots would have,it would depend on the weapon,but they must range something like 400-500 degrees or more.i would worry about metal fatige and micro-fractures.

for a dry lube,i much prefer solids like molybdenum disulfide,boron nitride or cerflon.at least these have a very solid and even visibly better boundary layer that remains slippery and protective and do not allow heat to build up.(no hot spots)

as a wet lube,i think militec-1 is perfectly fine and even works great,as long as you realise there are better cleaners and rust preventors and use together,which defeats military logistics.

....and,no john,you are not the only "lube collector".i have a drawer half full of unused gun lubes,including half a small bottle of militec-1 which i got from a friend who recieved a free sample and has now moved on to weapon shield...and he says that works much better and i believe him,but he doesn't simply use it dry either.
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Old July 30, 2009, 12:47 AM   #12
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Lithium grease or its equivalent. It was good fo' yo' granpaw in Tarawa, Belgium, Cu Chi, Chosin and El Alemein and it is good for you ninjas now

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Old July 30, 2009, 08:28 AM   #13
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I did not edit my original post (rant) because I want everyone that may read this to understand I have no problem with people that use the flag OR religion for their business. (Unless the flag is used in a disrespectful way.)
My problem is with people who manufacture substandard materials for service members. Again, I am not saying Militec is substandard, what I said in my original post was that was not up to military standards as outline by the DOD testing facilities.
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Old July 30, 2009, 09:12 AM   #14
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Back in 'aught Seven (sounded just like my grandpappy there) I started the "what lube is this?" thread...and touched off a firestorm. By post 23 the challenge to Militec-1 was on and I wound up doing a "head-to-head" showdown between Militec-1 and Weaponshield.

In the end I decided that Militec-1 didn't seem to be a bad product, but that Weaponshield seemed to be a better overall product so WS is what I started recommending when someone asked.

That was a simple "merit based" decision long before I became aware of the background politics.
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Old July 30, 2009, 01:54 PM   #15
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wildalaska,...lol,..nope,no mall ninjas here,just a little bit of myth busting.

uncle buck,i didn't see anything wrong with your previous post and i agree and appreciate it,especially considering your past position. thank you Sir and thank you for having kept our people who have gone into harms way safe.

zespectre,hmm,interesting thread you started a long time ago.you seem to confirm more than deny what most people have said here.are you still using WS and hows it worked for you?

for the record,i'm not one of those who easily buys into the latest techno-wizbang product that comes along.although,i like to keep up with technology/science and have had a fasination with that field and machines since i was a small kid....from sport cars,motorcycles,all military land/air/sea weaponry,you name it. i remember as a kid taking apart all the door locks and many other things at home and putting them back together ,sometimes without my parents ever finding out,for which i would sometimes catch hell....but i also have a logical/rational streak in me.

currently i use:

hoppes #9-i've used eds red formula and still have some left but #9 is inexpensive anyway and works well and is safe.for stubborn copper fouling,i'll soak over a couple of days and it ALL comes out.i prefer it over the stuff that works in 15 minutes,every thing else comes out quick and easy with #9....but i wouldn't rub it on paint,like dot sights and such,or on fibre optic sight tubes.

isopropynol alcohol(rubbing alcohol)-about $1.29 at any walgreens,but it must be the 91% or higher and not the 50-70% stuff. after #9,this will leave every thing literally squicky clean and ready for lube.it's also the main ingredient on many gun cleaning products,including the polymer safe cleaners.it's safe on wood,polymer and any finnishes i've seen.

gunk liquid wrench dry lube w/cerflon-$3.88/11oz. at my local walmart. i got tired of different oils dripping and drying,plain and simple. i use this instead of a powder molybdenum disulfide simply because it's easily available and inexpensive.if not,i would use the dry moly.this is not simply ptfe or teflon.teflon is extremely slick but it also has a lower shear strength.cerflon is ptfe that has been reinforced with the proper grade of boron nitride which significantly increases its durability and application range.it's basically a ceramically reinforced fluoropolymer.almost everything i have right now works good with it.note:you need to know how to use this.at first it may fool you....work it in several times,go shooting,lightly clean and work it in some more.don't over do it.i have used this exclusively on one of my AKs from the get go and it now has over 2000 rounds through it(thats not much you may say BUT)and the surface area above the hammer STILL has the original look and not shinny and worn in. i also like dry lubes for anything to carry,no mess and easy clean.it has also lightened some of my triggers over time and a quick light pass outside leaves a barrier against rust without leaving gripping serations slippery.

having said that,i don't use it on everything.there are some applications were i think others are better...like grease in brake-opens,M1A and garands...mostly because they are time honored and proven to work well on these...period.

....and wet lubes on other applications were i believe it's better for the lube to stay wet.

as you can see,i don't buy into every new miracle and expensive lube that comes out but i still want to know about them.i have also used motor oils in the past and they work.

i have found that separating the three steps seems to work better than the do all products BUT there are exceptions were i would prefer those.

i am NOT trying to endorse anything here.there is always more than one way to skin a cat.

Last edited by priler; July 30, 2009 at 02:03 PM.
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Old July 30, 2009, 05:14 PM   #16
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An I'm another one with samples of about every lube and bore cleaner ever made. I have abandoned all the petroleum based cleaners at this point, except for Ed's Red, which is still in a tin that I am gradually using up. For getting rid of carbon and powder residue I am using Gunzilla, which is a vegetable oil based cleaner designed for armorers whose hands are exposed to cleaning chemicals all day long. An overnight soak softens the hardest carbon to a kind of tar like sludge, so it's good for M14 gas cylinders and pistons and Garand op-rod tips. As an aside, it also seems to loosen surface rust extremely well. Gunzilla has a little odor, but it's not eye-stinging or offensive in any way.

For copper fouling I use either Boretech Cu+2 or Boretech Eliminator. Both are water-based, odorless items that remove copper very fast. No ammonia, non-toxic. Soap and water cleanup.

For lubes, I've been trying Sprinco's Machine Gun Lube for about two years now and found it quite good as far as avoiding stoppages go. I've run something like 3500 rounds through one of my 1911's that was lubed with it without cleaning or adding more lube and had no stoppages while doing so. This was over 4 days of shooting. It would have run further if the opportunity had lasted longer. Whether it would meet mil specs or not, I can't say? I don't think it has any special claim to cleaning properties, so probably not. The military clearly wants something versatile.
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Old July 30, 2009, 05:42 PM   #17
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Everyone has their fav grease and cleaner. But my fav is better than yours, except for you, who have one better than mine...even though her fav is better than yours

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Old July 31, 2009, 09:57 AM   #18
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I use MiliTec 1 on handguns and BreakFree CLP on rifles and handguns, depending on my mood.

MiliTec 1, when applied properly, (that is clean gun, lube, and then apply heat - I go and shoot a hundred or so rounds out of it - then you are good to go), is an excellent lube. But because I have 4 or 5 gallons of CLP, that's what I use a lot of.

Is MiliTec 1 better, yes in a lot of ways. After proper application the gun is easier to clean than if CLP or most other lubricants are used.

That being said, use whatever you like as long as it does the job and that you feel confident in that product. I feel confident with CLP and MiliTec 1.
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Old July 31, 2009, 11:47 AM   #19
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I have used militec, clp, 3 in 1, wd40 (for cleaning), white lithium grease (not in the sandbox obviously), outers lube and protectant, and plain jane ATF fluid. I honestly found that the ATF fluid works as well, if not better, than ANTHING on the market outside of desert environment.

For the sandbox, I ran the rifle dry except a very light coat of CLP on the internals. I always had a squirt bottle of CLP in the flack. First mag change during a firefight I would dump some lube in the ejection port and rock on. I always found the big hang up was cleaning the automatic rifles. Couldn't use lube sparingly on foot because a little squirt bottle in the flack won't quiet cut it for a 240, and running around with a huge spray bottle wasn't always practical. Just had to lube them normaly and clean often (like every few hours on some days). I wasn't impressed with militec, though. I always found it created a very sticky film on the rifle after I thought I had wiped it nearly dry. Maybe I wasn't following the directions, IDK
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Old July 31, 2009, 12:38 PM   #20
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MiliTec 1, when applied properly, (that is clean gun, lube, and then apply heat - I go and shoot a hundred or so rounds out of it - then you are good to go)
Pretty unlikely to happen on a daily basis in the field.
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Old July 31, 2009, 12:46 PM   #21
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MiliTec 1, when applied properly, (that is clean gun, lube, and then apply heat -
I wonder if I can use my granddaughters Easy Bake Oven to apply it.
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Old July 31, 2009, 10:19 PM   #22
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Just toss the gun up on the dash while you drive around during the day.
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Old August 1, 2009, 12:19 AM   #23
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Salt water corrosion test.

Note that of the 12 lubricants tested the Militec stuff came in almost dead last. (11th place)

http://www.slip2000.com/saltwatertest.html

Needless to say, the referenced test is an advertisement for Slip 2000. It hooked me. Had to try some.
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Old August 1, 2009, 07:01 AM   #24
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Militec-1 works for me and I buy the stuff by the case: I have used it for about 20 years. Militec-1 has kept my personal guns clean and rust free in the field: Some of my guns have been stored for three years while I worked overseas with no problems.

I am a multi-tasked military advisor/instructor who uses Militec-1 on military weapons to .50 caliber and it works very well. The saltwater spray test is not applicable to large deserts.
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Old August 1, 2009, 07:22 AM   #25
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I use Tetra gun grease and oil as well as TW25. I have used Miltec-1 and while I find it to be a good product, I feel for the average shooter/hunter there are many lubes out there that will do as well. We are not in a hjostile environment involved in a full auto firefight not having the time to clean and lube.
I remember when breakfree was the endall of lubes. We got it in small ounce bottles, I used LSA medium grade weapons lube. The federal supply system is snafu. Order it one week and get the real deal, order a week later and get a SUITABLE SUB! I always tried to order (sole source) and often had to write a letter of justification. I was in charge of LGT ( logistics transportation) and asst chief of LG (base supply) and getting what you really wanted could be a challenge.

Eventually we got Visa cards for local purchase but had to be careful when an IG came in as you could get dinged for bypassing the supply system. The military has too many cooks in the kitchen when it comes to purchase. You get idiots in the budget office who scream to the CC that you spend money downtown when you could get it on a NSN cheaper. I found there to be a lot of counterfeit products as we would get messages quite frequently. This is what happens when you get multiple suppliers of the same product under the same NSN. Like the rolling stones song goes " you can't always get what you want " that should be the theme song for the federal supply system!
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