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Old July 27, 2009, 01:01 PM   #1
Steve1911
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Bad Hit?

I have been to a couple of training classes over the years.

One thing that has always bothered me is the term "bad hit". I understand that not all your shots will be between the eyes or right in the heart... But If your bullet makes contact in the thoracic cavity, how can that be a bad hit?

Any hit in my book is a good one as long as it is in the BG and not down the road or in an innocent ... is a good one.

So what do you think?
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Old July 27, 2009, 01:08 PM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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I suppose it's all about the definition of "good hit", really.

To me, a "good hit" is one that will have a high probability of immediate or very short term incapacitation of the target. As such, most any bullet striking anything besides arms and legs, or possibly the "edges" of the torso, is a "good hit".

Next up though, if at least one "good hit" has already been made then I don't think any subsequent hits can ever be "bad", unless the subsequent shot itself was unjustified.
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Old July 27, 2009, 03:12 PM   #3
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Anytime I am struck, it is a bad hit. Anytime I hit the bad guy and not an innocent, it is a good hit.

Seriously, what peetzakilla said.
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Old July 28, 2009, 06:53 PM   #4
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We will never know the "fight" in the attacker. Some people will break off an attack at first injury...some will fight to the death. Same way with the good guys.

To me, if the BG is leaking hydraulics...that's a good hit. I would prefer him to be leaking from both sides, above the waist.

So, a bad hit is if he is still in the fight. Shoot again, hit him better/harder/more often! Stop the fight.

I have never been in a shooting fight...don't want to. This is all theory.

Mark
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Old July 28, 2009, 07:11 PM   #5
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There is a book written by the best sword fighter in ancient japan... in it he explains that there are two types of hits... "there is a hit and there is a strike... a "hit" is an attack that happens to hit wherever or is defensive... a strike however is a hit that is designed to drop the person..." (its not literal but close enough... if I remember right... I should look it up but im lazy) anyways... as long as it hits its good...
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Old July 28, 2009, 07:13 PM   #6
CWPinSC
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No "hit" is bad. There are good hits and better hits. Anything in the torso is good to me. COM is, of course, better.
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Old July 28, 2009, 07:14 PM   #7
Nnobby45
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Quote:
One thing that has always bothered me is the term "bad hit". I understand that not all your shots will be between the eyes or right in the heart... But If your bullet makes contact in the thoracic cavity, how can that be a bad hit?
Maybe as good a definition as any is the shot achieving it's intended purpose--resulting in a stop.

The definition is still shakey, since a well placed bullet can fail to stop.

Some argue that a well placed bullet that perfectly expands and penetrates as advertised is still a bullet failure. Some say the bullet worked fine and simply resulted in a failure to stop.

Do we need 4 pages of thread argument to understand that pistol bullets aren't completely reliable in stopping hostle assailants, even when they "perform perfectly" no matter how you define the failure.

Just my thoughts on the matter.
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Old July 28, 2009, 07:48 PM   #8
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Good Hit = BG stop.

Bad Hit = BG not stop.

Bad Hit = hit again. Fast. Until Good Hit.
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Old July 28, 2009, 08:24 PM   #9
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Blackfeather: Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi?
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Old July 28, 2009, 09:37 PM   #10
ranburr
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No such thing as a bad hit. Would a hit to the pelvis or the main artery in the thigh be considered bad hits? Both of those locations will put someone down and out, eventhough they are not center mass.
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Old July 28, 2009, 11:34 PM   #11
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Read a story about a guy who took a hit from a .45acp at about 10 feet to the chest. The bullet encountered the chest at just the right angle to penetrate clothes, the skin, and some muscle but not the ribs. It traveled around to his back and lodged there. This was shown on an X-ray taken in the emergency room which was reproduced with the story. Can't remember whether the object of the shooting was a bad guy or a good guy. The "bad hit" did not stop the victim.

The paramedic were confused about why the guy did not have a sucking chest wound with an entrance in the front and a bullet in the back under the skin.
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Old July 28, 2009, 11:44 PM   #12
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Don't remember where I heard it, but "there are good hits and bad hits, but every hit counts".

Quote:
Read a story about a guy who took a hit from a .45acp at about 10 feet to the chest
We all know that .45s always reduce BGs to ashes or quivering piles of goop every time. It must have been a 9x19mm.

*sorry, couldn't resist*
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Old July 28, 2009, 11:56 PM   #13
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IMO, it all depends on bullet. I was in Iraq as Infantry, and I saw quite a few of both. I shot a gentleman running a checkpoint, along with my buddy. When we laid the guy on the ground for our medic to work on, we saw 4 entry wounds just below his rib cage. our medic turned the guy over to find the exits, and was puzzled when he didn't see any. The bullets had entered in the front and hit bone, exiting out of his side. I shot 6 times that I recall, and my buddy shot about the same. He was stopped, even with the light 5.56mm we were using. Bullets react unpredictably, and that's what it depends on. A good hit with a 9mm may not be a good hit with 5.56.The checkpoint runner lived. What a medic.....!
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Last edited by Skan21; July 29, 2009 at 12:18 AM. Reason: The checkpoint runner lived. What a medic.....!
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Old July 29, 2009, 03:32 AM   #14
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Quote:
Blackfeather: Book of Five Rings by Miyamoto Musashi?
absolutely... good catch... even for my butchering of the concept...
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Old July 29, 2009, 07:48 AM   #15
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Quote:
No such thing as a bad hit. Would a hit to the pelvis or the main artery in the thigh be considered bad hits? Both of those locations will put someone down and out, eventhough they are not center mass.
Pelvic shots are not all that likely to put somebody down or out unless by a rifle and even then it may not work. Hitting an artery in the thigh certainly may not stop a person. Vascular hits really need to be such that they produce an immediate and significant dropping of blood pressure. Smaller arteries and nicks to more major arteries may not produce the desired result for many minutes or even hours.

It isn't really a good hit if the person survives long enough and is still capable of doing harm to you or a loved one, which sometimes does happen.
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Old July 29, 2009, 08:50 AM   #16
mike45
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If you can get a round on the target, even if it's the attackers foot, it may break his concentration and allow you to get further shots into center mass or he may break contact and run/hobble away.

The vast majority of the adversaries you may encounter are thugs. They want someone weak so they can accomplish their intended task with little effort or risk to themselves.
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Old July 29, 2009, 10:16 AM   #17
magnum force
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Quote:
Originally Posted by steve1911
One thing that has always bothered me is the term "bad hit". I understand that not all your shots will be between the eyes or right in the heart... But If your bullet makes contact in the thoracic cavity, how can that be a bad hit?

a bad hit is one that doesn't get the bad guy to stop what he's doing-pretty simple concept to understand, not sure why someone would start a thread about it lmao.

how's this for a thread-"what's a complete miss?" lol
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Old July 29, 2009, 04:32 PM   #18
Dallas Jack
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There are hits and there are misses. All hits will cause an effect eventually. Place your shot well, then do it again and again until the BG ceases hostilities.

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Old July 29, 2009, 04:38 PM   #19
onthejon55
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No such thing as a bad hit. There is such a thing as not enough hits.
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