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Old July 26, 2009, 02:30 PM   #1
boy412
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My new M1 Carbine (pictures too!)

Just wanted to share some photos of my newly acquired M1 Carbine. Its a Rock-Ola that belonged to my father-in-law, and it was given to him by a family friend. Its super clean and looks like its hardly been fired! Came with a pristine magazine, sling, and case. Not sure of the case is original...probably not.

Anyway...this is my first vintage rifle and I know very little about it. Its going off to Fulton's for a TI, then I'm going to start shooting it!

Here is a full-length shot with the case:



Here is a closeup of the action:



Front sight:



Here's the rear sight. Can the sight be re-finished? The zero mark on the back is faded, and the finish is blemished. The anal retentive bastard in me wants to "fix" it, but I don't want to do anything that will affect it's value.



And a side shot of the rear sight. What does the SA stamp mean?



Anyway...I'm super excited to have this. Can't wait to start shooting!
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Old July 26, 2009, 02:31 PM   #2
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...oh and any guesses as to its value? It would be good to know for insurance purposes.

Cheers...
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Old July 26, 2009, 02:35 PM   #3
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If i were to guesstimate, Id say the SA means super awesome. That was my super corny way of expressing my love to your rifle. I think you'll love it. I'm gonna pose another question to this thread: what do you all think of an m1 carbine as a Home Defense gun??
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Old July 26, 2009, 03:02 PM   #4
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The SA stands for Springfield Armory. It's not unusual to get manufacturers parts mixed in on M1 Carbines. Especially since the sights were upgraded and the bayonet adapter were added to some after being issued. Your M1 is in great condition. To highlight the sight markings, get a white china marker and rub it into the mark. Then rub off any excess. Some people do this to also highlight any lettering or other marks on their rifle. Go to the CMP forums: http://www.odcmp.org/new_forum/ and there is a forum on carbines. There's also a section on the CMP home site on carbines. Of special interest should be the cleaning info. CMP also sells .30 Carbine ammo. Fun gun to shoot.
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Old July 26, 2009, 03:13 PM   #5
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Oh yea, a Rock-Ola M1 Carbine is a very sought after version of the M1 Carbine, partly because Rock-Ola also made juke-boxes. CMP sells carbines now for $500, but they're not Rock-Ola or in near as good a condition as you're. Yours is worth $750 to $1000 offhand.
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Old July 26, 2009, 06:06 PM   #6
amd6547
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I doubt there is any reason to send it to Fulton, but it is your money...I would spend it on ammo.
The M1 carbine makes a great HD weapon loaded with SP's. My CMP Inland is nearby right now with a 15rd mag in it and two more in the stock pouch.
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Old July 26, 2009, 06:24 PM   #7
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Very nice! The M1-Carbine is one of my favorite rifles to shoot. There have been plenty of debates on the "effectiveness" of the caliber.... but IMHO I think it makes a great HD rifle. Just load up a few 30rd mags with some soft point ammo and you're good to go!

I actually started reloading not too long ago just so I could afford to shoot mine more often. Ammo can be a bit scarce and pricey.
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Old July 26, 2009, 06:59 PM   #8
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Yes...its rare to find any .30 Carbine ammo locally. I scored some at a gun show this weekend, so have some to play with (MilSpec Lake City stuff). Got 200 rounds, and intend on re-loading for sure!

Haven't fired it yet...I just want a pro to give it a lookover and make sure everything is cool before taking it to the range. I can't wait!

So...the Rock-Ola would have come with a flip-up iron site from the factory? I know the adjustable sights were added on later as "upgrades" so to speak, but is there such a thing as a Rock-Ola adjustable sight? I'm just going to think of the sight on my gun as "super awesome", as said by DanThaMan.



Found the CMP site, which has lots of good info.
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Old July 26, 2009, 07:05 PM   #9
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There have been plenty of debates on the "effectiveness" of the caliber....
Given that the security guard at the National Holocaust Museum had his life ended by a .22 bullet, I think its safe to say that nearly ANY bullet can be considered effective. Right?
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Old July 27, 2009, 04:05 AM   #10
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Given that the security guard at the National Holocaust Museum had his life ended by a .22 bullet, I think its safe to say that nearly ANY bullet can be considered effective. Right?
Absolutely... but I wouldn't suggest it (.22lr) as a primary HD weapon.
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Old July 27, 2009, 08:18 AM   #11
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Great example you have there! Low productuion on those as well I think. +1 to the M-1 Carbine being a great HD gun. Yes Rock-Ola's did appear with adj sights, ca. 1943 along with the rest of them IIRC. By war's end many if not most were so equipped. Of course most you see now - of any mfgr - are so equipped, along with bayo lugs (late war item) and flip safeties due to at least post war re-fits. Both my 1943 and 1944 Inlands sport original to the gun adjustables..the 6-44 one has an original bayo lug (I know, only 1.5 owners--my father then me), but the old push button safety. The 43 has a lug that was fit later during the war and ditto late war flip safety.
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Old July 27, 2009, 09:46 AM   #12
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How can I determine when this was produced? I'm assuming the serial number is used, but where would I look this up?

Again, the anal retentive bastard in me will probably seek out a Rock-Ola adjustable sight. Just because...



Can anyone tell from the photos if the bayonet lug is factory or not? Just curious...

Safety appears to be the flip style:

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Old July 27, 2009, 09:53 AM   #13
boy412
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Quote:
Absolutely... but I wouldn't suggest it (.22lr) as a primary HD weapon.
No...suggesting .22LR for HD would be absurd for sure! I guess my point was that the word "effective" is vague in that context.

Cheers...
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Old July 27, 2009, 12:08 PM   #14
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Rock-Ola produced 228,500 carbines out of the 5,551,000 produced by all manufacturers. So Rock-Ola only produced about 5% of the total production of carbines. Rock-Olas were produced in 1943 and 1944, about half in each year. Rock-Ola was assigned S/Ns 1,662,520 to 1,762,519 and S/Ns 4,532,100 to 4,632,099. I'm sitting in a meeting and don't have the breakdown, say by month for when a certain S/N was manufactured. I'd assume that the first block of S/Ns were for 1943 and the second for 1944.

If you want to see the details of what the markings and dates should be on every part of the original Rock-Ola or any other carbine, get Scott Duff's or Craig Riesch's book on carbines. Craig Riesch's U.S. Carbines, Wartime Production is now available from Amazon for about $20 and is well worth it. It breaks down the codes, dates, and configuration of every part of your Rock-Ola.
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Old July 27, 2009, 12:11 PM   #15
boy412
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Quote:
If you want to see the details of what the markings and dates should be on every part of the original Rock-Ola or any other carbine, get Scott Duff's or Craig Riesch's book on carbines. Craig Riesch's U.S. Carbines, Wartime Production is now available from Amazon for about $20 and is well worth it. It breaks down the codes, dates, and configuration of every part of your Rock-Ola.
Bless you! This is exactly the kind of information I'd love to have. Thanks for the post!
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Old July 27, 2009, 12:35 PM   #16
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Also, boy412, your sight is a Type II which is milled and is the best of the three configurations of sights installed on carbines, as far as accuracy. Type II sights weren't available until 1944. After installation, the sight was staked in place with a punch. Also the left side of the dovetail, under the sight, is narrower than the right to assure proper assembly and tightness. Me, I wouldn't mess with the sight.

All U.S. M1 Carbines were produced during WWII and have been to war. There's not a perfect original carbine, unless somebody totally refinished it. At the end of the war, all carbines in service were configured or reconfigured to the version you have. If it was mine, I'd leave it like it is to keep the history that it's been thru. You've got a very nice carbine.

Well, the meeting is about over.... Here's one of my Inland shooters with a Ruger Blackhawk also in .30 Carbine:
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Old July 27, 2009, 12:41 PM   #17
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Everything you ever wanted to know about using an M1 carbine in a modern context.
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Old July 27, 2009, 03:43 PM   #18
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boy
Welcome to the club. As a group of US military weapons, M1 carbines saw lots of use in WWII, Korea and VM as well as in many foreign countries we gave and loaded them to. The majority or carbines have been rebuilt one or more times and finding a rifle with various parts from other contractors is common/normal. The rifle can be made "correct" by substituting incorrect parts with those appropriate to the time band and contractor that produced your rifle. Many of the prime contractors used subcontractors and sold parts to each other. Studying the M1 carbine is a scholarly process and not one done quickly. The resources are out there but it's not cheap or quick to get a unit back to correct grade in many instances. As a Rock, trade parts for your rifle will be less common and pricey but if $$$ is no object they are to be had. If the stock is not a Rock/ Rock-appropriate that has to go to. Any makings or letters on the outside of the stock?
Regardless of contractor it would be rare to find an all original unit wearing every part it came out of the plant with. Not impossible, but rare.
On the rear sight I will give you this one word of caution. Rear carbine sites are heavily staked in place on many rifles especially if the rear unit was upgraded during a rebuild. Your rifle is wearing a SA site so you should look for heavy staking. Many receivers are ruined in an attempt to change out the rear site by using improper technique. It only comes off one way, try it the other way and you are screwed!
You got an adjustable type already so why change it other than to get the SA off and an R-O on. Changes to get it back to correct grade could improve its value or ruin it if poorly executed. It looks like you may have a later slide. If so, your noggin is going to appreciate it.
You seem to have a fine looking example. Mixmaster or not, it could have seen action in its current form. Spend some time researching the rifle and reading the endless data and links provided on the CMP forum before you make a move but by all means take the thing out for a spin at the range. If it’s a shooter …well you know the old saying about fixing things that aren’t broken.
Best
S-
PS If I sound like somebody that would leave it as is that's because I would.
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Old July 27, 2009, 04:34 PM   #19
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Very nice-- congrats on you new rifle! A very underrated gun, and within its limitations, a gem is there..
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Old July 28, 2009, 01:18 AM   #20
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Beautiful carbine you have there. One day I have to get a Saginaw Steering Gear model, as I worked for the factory they were produced from 06-March this year. Good selection of defensive ammo available these days, some may not feed well without work on the feed ramp and such I've heard but with that I see an excellent house gun, maybe in some cases preferable to a shotgun, handgun ctg. or .223 carbine, or handgun.

Always loved the feel and balance of these honies. You got a nice one.
Have considered the DCM program to obtain a Garand and Saginaw Carbine, have to get around to that one of these days.


Wleoff-Nice BH, but how about an Automag III flame thrower
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Old July 28, 2009, 02:14 AM   #21
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That is a nice weapon, I have an Inland 1943 dated. Maybe when I get a better camera I will post pics. Welcome to the M1 Carbine club!
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Old July 28, 2009, 02:19 AM   #22
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beautiful rifle and a piece of history for sure
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Old July 28, 2009, 02:46 AM   #23
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Love it.
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Old July 28, 2009, 08:52 AM   #24
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It we are turning this into a ‘show me your M-1 carbine thread’ I want in on that action, here is mine.

Notice the rear sight and the barrel band.

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Old July 28, 2009, 10:45 AM   #25
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C'mon Guys! Enough already! I was just about over my "I want" gun fever and seeing these pictures has stirred it up again.

I used an M-1 Garand (Details will probably get me in trouble, along with about six other people) while on active duty. Kicked like a mule and shot straight as a jet on take off! I want one for myself!

My father had an M-1 Carbine and he and my uncles used to practice target shooting by rolling tires, with plywood centers, down the sand banks. He said he does not remember what ever happened to it, but it was his favorite gun and he would like another one.

I eventually want to get both the garand and the carbine and have a turkey shoot with my father. He is getting old and his eye sight is fading, I think I can out shoot him now!

Thanks for the pictures. Now if I could just save up about $1,800.00 I could get both of these treasures.
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