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Old July 25, 2009, 03:40 PM   #1
onthejon55
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Movie theater situation

So a few months ago during spring break i decided i would take my sister out to the movies and spend some good quality time with her before i go off to college next year. After the movie i was waiting for her to finish using the restroom when i noticed there were three young men standing outside the bathroom laughing and looking my way.

"no big deal" i thought. after my sister came out of the restroom and we started making out way to the door one of the young men yelled some horrible, sex related comment about my little sister loud enough for me and her to hear it. At this point my temper flared and i made the mistake of telling them to go F*** themselves and showed them a certain hand gesture.

At this point the largest kid of the group (6'2", 180lbs). starts walking towards me and yelling something about beating my A**. I realized at that point that i really should have kept my mouth shut and proceeded to bee line across the parking lot for the my car telling my sister that we really need to go before this kid trys to fight me.

As soon as we reach the car i unlock it and tell my sister to get inside and lock the door. The kid was about 10 yrds from the car still walking strait for me when i decided to unholster my Walther P22 and keep it behind my back in order to not make a scene in case he changes his mind.

The kid walks within 15 feet of me starts yelling at me telling me i need to apologize and that if i dnt he is going to beat my a**. I very calmly hold my left handout and tell him repeated that he needs to leave and just walk away. Continues the yelling and keeps scooting closer and when he was withing 5 feet of me i pull the gun from around my back and hold it in front of my chest, pointed down at the ground, in plain view and tell him once again in a firm voice that he needs to leave.

He looked at the gun, mouthed "oh sh**" to himself and turned 180 degrees and walked back to his car without a word spoken. I looked around and realized that a bunch of people were watching and didnt even try to break up the potential fight this make me mad so instead of telling everyone sorry or explaining myself i just got in my car and left.

my mistakes(as i see them):

1.In hind sight i realize that yelling back at a bunch of teenagers was asking for trouble but when someone yells at your little sister its almost impossible not to voice your opinion.

2. Using the gun to scare him rather than how its supposed to be used- i did this because i realized that this kid was just looking for an easy fight and would have stopped if he had met any resistance. I also didnt want to draw down on someone in the middle of a parking lot with 10-15 people watching.


Tell me what you think i did right and wrong! any and all opinions welcome.
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Old July 25, 2009, 03:46 PM   #2
MLeake
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You already know...

... it would have been better to shrug it off. The guys were offensive, but not threatening. Although I could see where your sister might have felt intimidated by their comments and attitudes.

From a legal perspective, if things had devolved to shots fired, you would have created some problems for your own SD defense, IE you mouthed off and gestured in a way that could be argued by a prosecutor to have been escalatory. Escalation on your part can nullify, or at least badly complicate a claim of SD.

You might also have been better off to keep the gun out of view, and just apologize to the guy in the parking lot. This would have required swallowing pride, but would have put you in much less legal jeopardy of a brandishing or assault charge.
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Old July 25, 2009, 03:47 PM   #3
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you and one lippy teen no need for the gun give him an a$$ whoopin.
as long as he is unarmed.
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Old July 25, 2009, 03:48 PM   #4
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Of course you want to protect your sister, but...

Were you paying attention in your CCW class? You did take one, right?

There was an old saying when I grew up, "Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me."

Would have been so quick with your initial response if you weren't carrying a gun? A weapon in the hands of a civilian is meant to protect your life or that of someone else when you are in imminent danger.

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Old July 25, 2009, 03:53 PM   #5
onthejon55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAIGAFISH
you and one lippy teen no need for the gun give him an a$$ whoopin. as long as he is unarmed.
He was 6'2" and 180lbs. Im 5'5" and 130 lbs on a good day.

plus my sister was with me so if he knocked me out she would have been as his mercy
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Old July 25, 2009, 04:01 PM   #6
SAIGAFISH
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get alittle hand to hand training it greatly asist in dealing with the average
sized male 6ft 175.did not mean to offend sorry.
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Old July 25, 2009, 04:04 PM   #7
Brian Pfleuger
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Getting in your car and driving away would be the prudent move. There was absolutely no reason to speak to or respond to him in any way. It appears to me that you had all the time in the world to just leave, and you chose to stay and risk a confrontation.

Would you have stayed if you were NOT armed?
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Old July 25, 2009, 04:06 PM   #8
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He wouldn't have hit you; i'm sure he's always just been able to intimidate everyone and if you stood up to him he wouldn't have done anything.

You only need a few self defense physical moves, a front kick to the pelvis area in this case, should knock him down.

I suggest you practice a few physical defense moves so that you are well rounded and more confident.
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Old July 25, 2009, 04:10 PM   #9
onthejon55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SAIGAFISH
get alittle hand to hand training it greatly asist in dealing with the average sized male 6ft 175.did not mean to offend sorry.
yah i know! one of the many things i plan on doing when i have the money.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peetzakilla
Getting in your car and driving away would be the prudent move. There was absolutely no reason to speak to or respond to him in any way.
I didnt want to get caught half way in the car and get dragged out unprepared or have him block my exit then punching out a window and pulling me out.

thats what was going through my head at the time anyways

Last edited by onthejon55; July 25, 2009 at 04:10 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old July 25, 2009, 04:11 PM   #10
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your right pete thats probly amuch smarter choice.
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Old July 25, 2009, 04:14 PM   #11
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the halfway in thing is a factor
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Old July 25, 2009, 04:15 PM   #12
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Some useful self-defense moves for beginners:

1) Keep mouth shut and just keep walking.

2) "That's funny, guys, but you may not realize you're making xxxxx uncomfortable." Note: used this with some Army guys who were telling seriously off-color stories in the pool the other day, with some small kids swimming nearby. They seemed more oblivious than malignant, and that turned out to be the case. They were a bit embarrassed, but not hostile, and they watched their language.

3) Walk faster.

4) The, "Oh, sorry, I mistook you for somebody else" ploy.

5) The, "No offense meant, let me buy you a beer" ploy. (Note: this works best at bars and clubs)

6) Walk toward the nearest cop, security guard, or populated area, in that order of precedence.
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Old July 25, 2009, 04:15 PM   #13
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I didnt want to get caught half way in the car and get dragged out unprepared or have him block my exit then punching out a windshield and pulling me out.
He's not going to "punch out a windshield" (or any window for that matter) unless he's Chuck Norris, or seriously high on something. Even if he does, DRIVE AWAY!

Get in the car, start it up and drive. If he stands in the way then honk your horn and move slowly forward. Have your sister on the cell to 911.

A gun is the absolute end of the line, last resort. You STARTED by drawing your gun, without making any reasonable attempt to leave. If he grabs at your door, drive away. If he punches at your car or breaks a window, drive away.
Driving away may include driving into (not over, into) him if he's getting truly out of hand. Using your car is better than using a gun. Give him a bump if he's getting VIOLENT, I mean really truly violent, he'll get the message.

The gun is always there if things get truly out of hand. Your job, and mine, is to make every effort to make sure things do NOT get truly out of hand.
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Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; July 25, 2009 at 04:22 PM.
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Old July 25, 2009, 04:16 PM   #14
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"Sticks and stones may break my bones but names will never hurt me."
Yeah we said that first verse alot but I learned at a young age to add... "but my left hook will knock yer teeth out!"
I can't really add to what you already knew or others mentioned...
Had it been my sister... I would sprinted right on in there and hit the biggest one in the mouth and decided who want the next knuckle samich...
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Old July 25, 2009, 04:25 PM   #15
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Should not have responded verbally or 'sign' language. Probably should not have left theater 'til all was cool assuming there were several people still milling around.

Past that, me in that same situation it would tickle me to death for a punk like this to approach me and my sister indoors in front of witnesses. I just would hope that I was not carrying.
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Old July 25, 2009, 04:28 PM   #16
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This also begs the question:

If you're small (no offense, but at 5'5" / 130, you are small, especially if you have no H2H training), and you were with your little sister, why did you walk out into a parking lot when you thought the guys would follow you? Why not stay where the crowds were, or approach management and ask for security?

By going out into the parking lot, you gave up a lot of potential advantages, IE other people who could intervene or at least act as witnesses, the deterrent value of the crowd, trained security, etc.

We've already covered the issue of mouthing off at three guys.

I'm willing to bet that while you thought you were standing up for your sister, your sister was thinking that you were putting her in danger by shooting off your mouth at three idiots. I have a little sister of my own, and I can assure you that's how she'd have seen it.

I got on her bad side once, years ago, when I got in the face of a drunk who kept shoving his way to jockey for better position at a concert, and knocking into my sister and her friend. He almost knocked my sister off her feet, and at that point I chewed him out. Nothing happened, other than the guy backed off (his friend actually led him away), but I could have caused a fight. Odds would have been good that at the very least, we'd have been kicked out of the concert venue. I'd have probably ended up fighting the drunk and his buddy, and then been on the wrong side of the bouncers. My sister read me the riot act as the drunk and his friend moved away. Her friend played peacemaker, but she wasn't much happier about things.

I should have politely asked the dude and/or his friend to please not push women, and if that didn't produce results I should have gone looking for the bouncers. When it comes to solving social problems, pride and adrenaline are not as useful as experience and discretion - pride and adrenaline tend to be hallmarks of young males, though.

Ok, that was long-winded... but the big take-away should be that when you are with others, your actions may put them at risk, too, so out of courtesy to them you should not do anything to escalate a problem. When you are out with your sister, your concern should be for her safety, not for your ego.

Adding a firearm to the mix is just a stronger reason to try to de-escalate where possible.
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Old July 25, 2009, 04:28 PM   #17
SAIGAFISH
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that would probly be my first thought to but ,now im a father and
trying to get in less scufles . win or loss a fight usually hurts somewere
knuckles face ect.
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Old July 25, 2009, 04:40 PM   #18
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What ever you do, to not get hurt, and your younger Sister is not hurt either, I would say you won ... You are batting a hundred.

Every experience that you go through in life, let's you gain insight, you did OK.
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Old July 25, 2009, 04:43 PM   #19
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
You are batting a hundred.
You mean "a thousand"?.... batting a hundred is pretty crappy.
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Last edited by Brian Pfleuger; July 25, 2009 at 04:58 PM.
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Old July 25, 2009, 04:51 PM   #20
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Batting a thousand...

... would have been not escalating the situation to the point where your sister got more frightened than necessary, and you displayed a firearm in front of bystanders. You turned a situation where she may have been embarrassed (three guys being obnoxious idiots and talking smack) into one in which you, or more importantly both of you, could have been hurt.

If you think that's batting a thousand, you are worrying me, and so are the others who think you handled everything just fine. You created the need to draw through a sequence of poor decisions. I think you understand that, or you wouldn't have posted asking how you could have handled the situation better.

This could have turned out extremely badly for you. It turned out ok, so far - by which I mean you could still hear from the police if anybody who saw you pull the gun also caught your make, model, and partial plate. You got very, very lucky. Please appreciate that fact, and in future realize that carrying a weapon is a reason to avoid trouble, not stir it up. Especially when you are with loved ones.
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Old July 25, 2009, 05:00 PM   #21
Brian Pfleuger
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If you think that's batting a thousand,...
I'm not sure if Brit meant 100 or 1000. He seems to think the OP did "OK" and batting 100 is NOT "ok", more like horrible, but batting 1000 is perfect....

So, I'm not sure.... maybe, Brit, you meant he's batting like 225 or something?
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Old July 25, 2009, 05:41 PM   #22
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a bunch of people were watching and didnt even try to break up the potential fight
while they weren't really obligated to break up the fight, they should have been doing more then standing their slack-jawed. No smart person is going to get between to guys about to throw down, but I personally would have at least gotten out my phone and made it know I was planning on calling the cops.

as for what you did wrong, well I think you already know. sounds like that kid needs a whooping, and I feel it probably should be legal to administer one but from a legal standpoint you're boned.
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Old July 25, 2009, 06:54 PM   #23
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I know it sucks when some ignorant, animalistic meathead tries to mess with you (and more infuriating when they sexually gesture at your sister), but......

I would rather get my ass beat than get charged with murder.

He was obviously some insecure punk looking for validation. He sure wouldn't have killed you, likely not even hit you. Just say sorry. It sucks, but better for your pride take the blow instead of your face.

If you would have used that gun you would have been charged with murder.
That's just not worth it. I'm sure you and your sister would prefer you walk away with a dented ego that a dented face or a murder charge.

It's really lame that these uneducated little retards have to do stuff like that to feel good about themselves. Barbaric high schoolers are among the worst of us.
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Old July 25, 2009, 07:07 PM   #24
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I still think these are the kind of knuckle heads who need a swift kick
in the head while they still young and it might turn them around.
huh hogdogs
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Old July 25, 2009, 07:16 PM   #25
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I am Deeply Offended about this

When did talking like a punk at a helpless woman or girl become acceptable?

When did 'the law' and 'society' decide vulgarity and intimidation were part of the First Amendment rights of scum?

Others around failed to notice the situation and do anything positive? Perhaps a public fight is simply entertainment and the gang rape of the sister would be an encore?

Yeah, the police would have taken the side of the scuzzballs if you had shot one of them as a lesson to the others. The police would also take a dim view of finding this punks mother and father and beating them silly for not properly rearing their worthless, dirtbag son. It just shows how much we've lost as a society.

55, you should have probably avoided the situation. However, the only way to avoid it is to lock yourself in your home or be a sheeple. I can't really give you any advise. Sounds like you did okay over all. Perhaps the punk will remember some victims are armed in the future.
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