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View Poll Results: What 1911 stainless steel fordged full size with rail to get?
Taurus PT-1911 SS-RAIL 16 21.92%
Kimber Stainless TLE/RL II 14 19.18%
Or another 1911.. If so what one??? 43 58.90%
Voters: 73. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 10, 2012, 09:28 PM   #1
380acp
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Taurus 1911 vs kimber vs ??? Railed 1911

I ma looking for a stainless steel railed 1911 to add to my toys. What do you feel is better all around I know the Kimber is made in the usa and is forged have to remove the plactic part on it. But at a factory list of $1291 thats a lot of money "Stainless TLE/RL II" See it for around 1200 asking price.


Then there is the Taurus it is a forged frame and is got lot the bells so to speak of I could want .Still have to remove then dumb key lock on the trigger. Bust it list is MSRP: $938.00 but I see it for $666 dollars on buds guns.


What is the better of the two. I Know what one is cheaper but I know that a name plate is not a judge of what you get an input?
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Old July 10, 2012, 09:40 PM   #2
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IMO the Kimber is a superior gun. Conversely and again IMO, the Taurus is the better buy/value. In essence, if money were no option, I go with the Kimber and the Taurus if I am looking to maximize my value on a more frugal-like budget (which unfortunaly seems to be the case 'in-my-neck-of-the-woods ).

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Old July 10, 2012, 10:50 PM   #3
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One of sigs 1911s would be my choice if I was in the market for 1911 w/ rail
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Old July 11, 2012, 02:13 AM   #4
Mosin44az
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Springfield maybe?

My Taurus 1911 broke its hammer and thumb safety in the first 200 rounds. Cheap metal.

Kimber does not have a great rep on this site either.
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Old July 11, 2012, 02:16 AM   #5
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Kimber's rep is spotty where ever you go. They're customers that have no problems with theirs then there are customers that have a multitude of problems with theirs. I don't like that and i just couldn't stomach paying the premium kimber ask when they run MIM parts and have a plastic MSH. That bothers me.

I'm not sure on taurus never really looked into them. If i was considering a factory 1911 it would be DW, springfield, colt, and STI. JMO YMMV.
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Old July 11, 2012, 02:21 AM   #6
freenokia
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Why not a ruger?
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Old July 11, 2012, 02:23 AM   #7
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Nothing wrong with Ruger, i'm not fan of the cast frame though that's personal opinion.
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Old July 11, 2012, 07:18 AM   #8
TacticalDefense1911
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Of those two guns the Kimber would be my choice but there are better guns available for the same about of money that would be far better choices. Taurus is cheap junk; sorry to bust peoples chops who own one and "its been flawless" but you don't get all those "bells and whistles" at that price in the 1911 world without sacrificing quality and fitting. Kimber can make a very solid 1911 but at the price they ask for them you can get one that does not have the Schwartz firing pin safety and has far fewer MIM parts, and for the price they ask for these guns there is no reason they should have that many MIM parts in them when for alot of their higher end guns they are asking semi-custom, forged internals prices.

If you are looking for a railed 1911 there are several very good options available to you. The Springfield Operator, Colt Rail Gun, and S&W E-series are three production level 1911's that come to mind that have an excellent reputation thus far. This would be a good place to start. The Springfield TRP is a higher end gun and thus a higher end price but these guns time and again get excellent reviews. The Dan Wesson Specialist just started being released in sizeable quantities. These guns are semi-custom quality with forged internals. Outside of going with a high end gun like a Nighthawk or Wilson, this is about as good as it gets.
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Old July 11, 2012, 07:37 AM   #9
Yung.gunr
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There are many other 1911 makers that have much better reputations the both Kimber and Taurus. While I do own a Taurus I am not sure if I would spend 1911 money on a Taurus.

Springfield is the first that comes to my mind with the budget that you are looking at. However, I am unsure on what their product line holds based on what you are looking at.

Bottom line, pass on the Kimber and Taurus and keep looking.

Might I suggest a used 1911. I know there is a substantial market of used 1911s. If you are inexperienced with them it may be a good idea to require the seller to meet you at a gunsmith of your choice to have him look it over for you.
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Old July 11, 2012, 08:28 AM   #10
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Colt Rail Gun.
One of my shooting buddies is a member of the shooting press, he gets to test a lot of guns, and in his words, he'd "climb a mountain of Tauruses to get to a Rock Island." On the other hand, he liked the Colt Rail Gun enough that he bought his test gun.
Though it's not forged, I've been admiring the ATI Thunderbolt. The pricing is not nearly as attractive as a couple of years ago, but still well south of $1000.
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Old July 11, 2012, 10:35 AM   #11
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Since I cannot in good conscience suggest that anyone buy a Taurus or a Kimber, my vote goes to the Colt Rail Gun.
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Old July 11, 2012, 10:37 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freenokia
Why not a ruger?
a) Not forged, which was a requirement

b) They don't offer a rail, which was a requirement
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Old July 11, 2012, 11:47 AM   #13
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taurus and kimber are two of the WORST brands you could pick. taurus is trash, and you don't get nearly enough for what you pay for in a kimber.

$400-600 RIA
$600-800 STI, Springfield
$800-1200 Colt, Springfield
$1200-2000 Dan Wesson
$1500-2500 have a custom one built
$2500up Wilson, Ed Brown, Les Baer

$700 STI Spartan V - mine is 9mm, but it can be had in 45 as well


$1200 Colt Gold Cup Trophy - these are not the original grips. i replaced the wrap around rubber grips with VZ grips


$1600 Custom built - using Fusion and Caspian parts
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Old July 11, 2012, 12:52 PM   #14
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Buy Kimber...it is better to pay 4 times the price of a Taurus copy of a 1911A1..
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Old July 11, 2012, 12:52 PM   #15
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I've owned two Kimbers in my life time, a ultra and pro. Both had all sorts of issues with feeding and extraction and both went back to Kimber more than once. The first one I bought was the ultra, I wanted a 1911 for carry and they came highly recommended from a trusted co-worker who loved Kimber and owned 4 of them.

The first time out was 50 rounds of FTF and FTE. I called Kimber the same day and the rep told me to shoot another 450 rounds through the gun and if I was still having problems, call them back. I didn't like the idea but I was new to 1911's and autos in general. Instead of doing the recommended 450, I shot 200 and still had a over 50% failure rate.

I called Kimber the next day and told the rep I had shot the recommended 500 rounds. Rather than tell me to send it in, the rep and the manager I asked to speak with afterwards both told me to go out and buy Wilson combat mags. I could not believe that they actually recommended I buy different mags because "the stock mags don't work to well in some Kimbers". So, foolishly, I went out and bought 2 new mags and the problem got worse.

Kimber reluctantly sent me a call tag and off it went. Two months later, after multiple calls and a lot of being lied to, the gun showed up on my doorstep. It was filthy and had no explanation of the work done. I immediately took it out and had the same issues. I sent it back again, received it one month later with the same issues. A week later I sold it, with full disclosure, at a huge loss.

This was quite some time ago (a little over 10 years) and I was not very hip to the forums. I got online, started researching and learned 3 inch 1911 are not the most reliable. So, like an idiot, I went out and bought the Kimber pro. Long story short, it was basically the same as the ultra.

I have never owned a Taurus 1911 but I have owned their revolvers. They ranged from complete disasters to some what acceptable. I can say that Kimber and Taurus are two brands that I would never in my life consider owning again. Take the advice of others and look at Colt or Springfield.
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Old July 11, 2012, 03:34 PM   #16
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The SIG 1911s are a solid build and well finished. I'd look at Smith&Wessons offerings too.
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Old July 11, 2012, 05:37 PM   #17
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I have a PT1911, and I haven't had a single issue. I bought mine awhile back (shortly after they came out), before most of the companies released a budget 1911. Every shot has fired just fine, from brass to steel, FMJ to HP.

I will say that the bells and whistles are more of an overblown marketing ploy on Taurus' part though. The custom work prices are a little inflated given that the work is not Ed Brown/Wilson type stuff... Given the price difference though, that is to be expected. With that being said, I still think it is a good value considering what you get. I have locked my trigger on a few occasions, and it's really one of those things that you never have to use. The aesthetics side may come into play, but with a 1911 you can always swap out parts if you so desire.

Taurus catches a lot of flack, and I do believe some of it is warranted. A lot of it comes from people who read something ten years back about the company though. Either way, the PT1911 and PT92/99 are generally considered their best models from a quality standpoint. If you are looking to save money, I think it is a good choice.
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Old July 11, 2012, 05:57 PM   #18
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All this Taurus PT1911 pooh pooh is unfounded and discriminating, the Taurus PT1911 is an in spec rendition of JMB 1911 and built with better materials then most 1911 under $1000.00 bracket, hammer forged barrel, frame, and slide, does not require a break-in period and will function reliably and accurately right out of the box, besides being fully loaded with all the 1911 upgrades, that are options on other models at a higher cost, Taurus can offer the PT at a lower price simply cause they manufacture every part of the PT1911 in house with a state of the art CNC machinery and they are one of the leaders in the world in MIM manufacturing, besides being the third largest firearm manufacturer in the world.

I believe that any of the 1911 that have been recommended are superior to the modern poli guns in the market, but then again I'm partial to an all steel single action pistol (1911).

I might be accused of being a Taurus fan boy and thats alright, I'm not, but somebody needs to stand up and set things straight, when ignorance, disdain, and untruthful perceptions are being perpetrated about a well made 1911.

I bought my PT1911 in 08 and so far have run 18.5K rounds through it with out anymore failures then any other 1911 in the market (3%), I check all the internals under magnification at 5K round intervals with out noticing any evidence of critical wear, I just walked in the house after shooting 200 accurate and reliable rounds with out any hitch, as usual, but you'll never catch me trashing any 1911 as long as it's an in spec 1911, and then I will only present my factual findings.

If your choice is between the Kimber and the PT1911 I think the choice is easy the PT1911 is at least $400.00 to $600.00 less then the Kimber, and the Kimber is not 100% better, The PT1911 comes with a no question asked lifetime guaranty vs the Kimber 1 year guaranty, your choice.

shoot safe, shoot straight, and have fun


Last edited by cuba; July 11, 2012 at 06:28 PM.
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Old July 11, 2012, 06:02 PM   #19
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I had a Taurus 1911---had 1 malfunction in 600ish rounds.

I had a Kimber---it had AT LEAST 1 malfunction every other mag for 500 rounds.

But I voted other:


It's the best railed 1911 under 1k I've ever laid my hands on.
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Old July 11, 2012, 07:13 PM   #20
PT-92
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Quote:
cuba

All this Taurus PT1911 pooh pooh is unfounded and discriminating, the Taurus PT1911 is an in spec rendition of JMB 1911 and built with better materials then most 1911 under $1000.00 bracket, hammer forged barrel, frame, and slide, does not require a break-in period and will function reliably and accurately right out of the box, besides being fully loaded with all the 1911 upgrades, that are options on other models at a higher cost, Taurus can offer the PT at a lower price simply cause they manufacture every part of the PT1911 in house with a state of the art CNC machinery and they are one of the leaders in the world in MIM manufacturing, besides being the third largest firearm manufacturer in the world.

I believe that any of the 1911 that have been recommended are superior to the modern poli guns in the market, but then again I'm partial to an all steel single action pistol (1911).

I might be accused of being a Taurus fan boy and thats alright, I'm not, but somebody needs to stand up and set things straight, when ignorance, disdain, and untruthful perceptions are being perpetrated about a well made 1911.

I bought my PT1911 in 08 and so far have run 18.5K rounds through it with out anymore failures then any other 1911 in the market (3%), I check all the internals under magnification at 5K round intervals with out noticing any evidence of critical wear, I just walked in the house after shooting 200 accurate and reliable rounds with out any hitch, as usual, but you'll never catch me trashing any 1911 as long as it's an in spec 1911, and then I will only present my factual findings.

If your choice is between the Kimber and the PT1911 I think the choice is easy the PT1911 is at least $400.00 to $600.00 less then the Kimber, and the Kimber is not 100% better, The PT1911 comes with a no question asked lifetime guaranty vs the Kimber 1 year guaranty, your choice.

Cuba, you make a very strong rebuttal of the Taurus 'ranting.' Moreover, you do so in an intelligent and articulate manner based on an actual 'first-hand' account (not the rhetorical 'I've never owned a Taurus 1911, but..."--It gets old after a while for sure). The fact is that there are lemons of everything in every lot of everything made by man--Specifically with guns, search the forums for any particular vendor and you will find people complaining about their horrid experiences...Indeed, I am certain that Taurus has made their share of lemons (I personally have not experienced this with the 5 total Tauri products I own which [disclaimer] does not include a 1911 model—However, I have shot hundreds of PT-1911 rounds via the range rental so I would concur with your review). That being said, I have never seen any “empirical” data indicating that Taurus has a mathematical higher ratio of hardware problems relative to their respective competition.

Years ago when I was shopping around for a ‘budget’ like 1911, I ran across the following video which I found impressive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gx7HYgTWAsg

*Edited to add that I have been contacted now three times asking 'if I think Taurus' is the only youtube videos with vendor torture testing'...? I never said they were (I'm sure you can find a torture vid pertaining to all popular models). Look, I could care less if someone loves or hates anything, I just think the criticism of 'anything' should have some degree of objective credence and scope. I will follow the thread but that's it for me post wise.

-Cheers
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Old July 11, 2012, 07:35 PM   #21
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Could you live without stainless and a forged frame? The RIA is an excellent value and I'd take it over the Taurus as a budget gun. Now wanting a stainless gun I get, but a forged frame adds nothing to the gun over a good cast frame. Most big name semi-custom shops have used or continue to use cast frames for their 1911s without a problem. My Dan Wesson sits at just over 10k rounds fired with no noticeable wear and tear to the frame.

I will say that I wouldn't get the Kimber. My honest opinion is that they determine MSRP by drawing randomly high numbers out of a hat. I'd feel comfortable buying a Taurus because I've had two good experiences and zero bad with the brand.
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Old July 11, 2012, 07:40 PM   #22
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I'd start my search, and end it too, with Springfield. Great guns, great customer service. Nothing wrong with Colt, S&W or Ruger though.

Out of Kimber or Taurus, I'd go Kimber although Kimber seems to have had some QA issues and their customer service isn't world class either. All and all, Kimber is stir much better than Taurus.
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Old July 11, 2012, 08:23 PM   #23
cuba
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Kreyzhorse:
All and all, Kimber is stir much better than Taurus.

And in your opinion in what way is the Kimber 1911 BETTER than the PT1911 ?

Really
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Old July 11, 2012, 11:38 PM   #24
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I am going to recommend a sig too. I have a sig xo 1911 than shoots great. I also have an early kimber that runs great too but sigs are priced better right now for what you get.
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Old July 12, 2012, 01:09 AM   #25
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It's a bit out of the price range, but Dan Wesson Valor

If not that one, consider the Dan Wesson Heritage and Guardian models.

The Valor is on my long-term must-own list. It's elegant, classy, and apparently dead-nuts reliable.
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