The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Hunt

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old July 22, 2009, 02:14 PM   #26
verti89
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 10, 2008
Posts: 157
Our hunting situation is actually quite nice...we stay in a person double-wide on his personal land then make a 5 minute drive to another persons personal land and use it to access the public hunting ground a good 5 miles in from the nearest public entrance. So as far as a 'camp gun' goes, unless there isn't enough dinner for the 3 of us I doubt there will be much need for self defense. The sidearms are purely for the hike in and hike out, while our rifles are strapped to our backs. Last year we had success hiking to a certain spot and waiting and I think that is our plan for this year as well.

I have read the pepper spray tactic but like you I am not real comfortable with letting a bear get close enough for that, and i also dont feel like carrying around the small fire extinguisher that would it would require to affect a bear at a range I would feel at least some sort of comfort.

I totally agree with the whichever you can shoot better argument, which is why last year I went with my .45. My dad didn't have any guns yet so my .45 was all I had shot. This year I am much more experienced and still have plenty of time to practice with the .357 so its not as much of an issue.
verti89 is offline  
Old July 22, 2009, 02:14 PM   #27
gun nut
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 7, 2009
Location: midwest
Posts: 298
I'd take the 357.
__________________
The only stupid question is the one not asked! (Unknown)
gun nut is offline  
Old July 22, 2009, 03:08 PM   #28
GringoGrande
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 12, 2009
Location: Sandusky, Ohio
Posts: 131
Darwin Awards: Hitting any Bear on the Nose with anything

I personally want to have popcorn and soda ready and a chair to watch whoever is going to whack a bear on the nose with anything. Truly invisions "Darwin Awards," material.

If and when I hunt and it is allowed in the state I am in, I carry a Para Ord Wart Hog .45 with +P Hardball. It is small, not that heavy and a very good comfort when you set the rifle down to take a crap, eat lunch, dress out the game, sleep etc.

My friend in Montana, who owns a horse pack-in camp has a sign at the lodge that says "You are FOOD, be prepared to defend yourself." and recomends levels of that defense or survival. Rifle, Pistol, ammo, Bear Blast Spray, Sheath knife, folding knife, local map & compass, survival kit w/first aid kit.....and the ability to climb and swim.

Gringo
__________________
If you don't stand behind our troops, then how about you standing in front of them. Next time you see a vet or active duty USA Military person, just say thank you, they will know what it is for.
GringoGrande is offline  
Old July 22, 2009, 03:23 PM   #29
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
The rangers up by Mt Mitchell stated

that they have used the stick to the nose technique successfully.

I wouldn't try it, but they didn't suggest it might work, they flat out said it HAS worked.

I still wouldn't try it.
MLeake is offline  
Old July 22, 2009, 03:54 PM   #30
verti89
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 10, 2008
Posts: 157
the only time I would even enterain whackin a bear in the nose is if it was AFTER I had put all my lead into him and it was a test to make sure the beast was dead...and even then it would have to be a really big stick.
verti89 is offline  
Old July 22, 2009, 05:01 PM   #31
BillCA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2004
Location: Silicon Valley, Ca
Posts: 7,087
+1 on the .357 mag for another reason -- the noise. That sharp concussion of the .357 magnum from the business end is considerable. And unpleasant inside of 20 yards. Even if you miss, that blast may change a bruin's mind about seein' what you taste like.

If I was stuck deciding between .45 and .40 for black bear, I'd look for the hottest 180gr FMJ .40 load I could find. I want something that will penetrate and break bones vs. expansion. Browns and Grizzlies are much tougher critters and I'd opt for any Elk-suitable rifle over a handgun.

Quote:
the only time I would even enterain whackin a bear in the nose is if it was AFTER I had put all my lead into him and it was a test to make sure the beast was dead...and even then it would have to be a really big stick.
We have some crazy folks here in California (is that a surprise?) who use pointy sticks to hunt bear. It's amazing to watch a pair stalk within range like a Marine sniper to get their shot at 40 yards or so. Even with a compound bow, bears seldom fall right away.
__________________
BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)
BillCA is offline  
Old July 22, 2009, 05:14 PM   #32
goodspeed(TPF)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 19, 2009
Location: WI
Posts: 1,162
Quote:
Since you're carrying a rifle, it's probably not a big deal what handgun you carry.
I agree with this in regards to the three you offered. I would go with the XD .45 iffin I had to make a choice, but that's my preference.
__________________
It's a trick. Get an axe.

http://www.thepiratefleet.com/index.shtml
goodspeed(TPF) is offline  
Old July 22, 2009, 10:11 PM   #33
WAPITI_ASSASSIN
Member
 
Join Date: May 19, 2009
Location: Grants pass Oregon
Posts: 53
id sell both and get a .44 lol
WAPITI_ASSASSIN is offline  
Old July 23, 2009, 06:08 AM   #34
Brian48
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 21, 2001
Location: Boston, People's Republic of MA
Posts: 1,360
I would carry the most powerful, fullsize gun you've got.
Brian48 is offline  
Old July 23, 2009, 07:24 AM   #35
Edward429451
Junior member
 
Join Date: November 12, 2000
Location: Colorado Springs, Colorado
Posts: 9,494
Time for a new handgun! Come on...you know you want a new 44 mag.

You wont use it but you'll have it just in case.

Medium weight hardcast is ok for Colorado critters (245gr)
Edward429451 is offline  
Old July 23, 2009, 08:50 AM   #36
verti89
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 10, 2008
Posts: 157
I honestly can't believe I am saying this, but I actually DON'T want a .44mag. I have shot my dads a couple of times and its just downright uncomfortable. Maybe if the grips were different I might like it, but spending several hundred dollars on a gun I know I wont want to use is a bad idea.

Someone suggested I go with the .40 as it will penetrate more than the .45 which makes sense. Any other comments??

And by colorado critters, do you include black bears?
verti89 is offline  
Old July 23, 2009, 09:45 AM   #37
30-30remchester
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 18, 2009
Location: mountains of colorado
Posts: 977
Living here in elk country of Colorado I havent been attacked by one yet but still hoping to someday. It seems like alot of extra weight you will be packing. I remember the old adage, the only reason to ever use a handgun is because you dont have a rifle. And since you will having a rifle on your hunt anyway........ Now that the logic is over, we are here to have fun and if a handgun floats your boat, take one or more.
30-30remchester is offline  
Old July 23, 2009, 09:57 AM   #38
Rolller
Member
 
Join Date: November 10, 2006
Location: SEPA
Posts: 16
Here is what i bring on ALL my hunting trips, even for pheasant. a S&W 60-15 3" bbl. stainless frame .357 and tritium nights. i load it with winchester super x 158 gr hps. it is a j frame but i like the cancealability and the decent firepower. i reason that a bear isn't just going to stroll up to me. i figure it won't make itself known untill the last second. i MAY only get 1 shot if i'm lucky , and fast. .44 would be better but this gun is pretty good. and its at least as accurate as my sig 220 at 25 yds. beyond that, i think i would use a rifle.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg DSCF1152.jpg (224.2 KB, 22 views)
Rolller is offline  
Old July 23, 2009, 12:36 PM   #39
Yellowfin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2007
Location: West Upstate NY
Posts: 2,303
Quote:
In the Blue Ridge... National Park rangers actually recommend bear spray and a big stick over any handgun for dealing with black bears. They swear by a whack on the nose with a hiking stick.
That's probably because their job tells them they can't say shoot it with the biggest gun you can possibly have on you.

As for myself, I carry bear spray and whatever gun I can have on me dictated by rules of where I am. I'm seriously considering putting an Aimpoint on a .30-30 because the #1 consideration is speed above all else.
__________________
Students for Concealed Carry on Campus http://www.concealedcampus.org
New York gun owners unite! Join now! http://www.nyshooters.net
May Issue is the new Separate but Equal.
Yellowfin is offline  
Old July 23, 2009, 12:45 PM   #40
javabum
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2009
Location: Californication
Posts: 264
whacking "any bear" with a stick puts you close enough to get what you deserve.im in california and would never do something as goofy as that.

my choice of firearm for bear hunting would be .30-.06 or greater....i want to be as far away from that critter as i can but close enough to drop it with a rifle.
life is enough risk without adding stupidity into the equation....no pistols or revolvers if i go bear hunting.
__________________
Stupidity Should Hurt.....Immensely

NRA Life member
javabum is offline  
Old July 23, 2009, 01:03 PM   #41
Yellowfin
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 7, 2007
Location: West Upstate NY
Posts: 2,303
He's not talking about bear hunting, he's talking about incidentally running into one. BIG difference. The first difference is that when DEFENDING against something, a scope is a hinderance as acquisition is slow--unacceptable when you're trying to keep something from eating you. Unless you're talking about a .30-06 set up with this task in mind, something with peep sights or a 1x red dot like an Aimpoint, short and light, there are much better choices.
__________________
Students for Concealed Carry on Campus http://www.concealedcampus.org
New York gun owners unite! Join now! http://www.nyshooters.net
May Issue is the new Separate but Equal.
Yellowfin is offline  
Old July 23, 2009, 01:21 PM   #42
javabum
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 6, 2009
Location: Californication
Posts: 264
i stand corrected....if that is the case then a 40 with bone breaking ammo would be the choice...but if all else fails and a stick is all you have go down swinging like a major league batter.
__________________
Stupidity Should Hurt.....Immensely

NRA Life member
javabum is offline  
Old July 23, 2009, 01:31 PM   #43
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
You don't normally get that close to a bear, JavaBum...

... the bear gets that close to you.

Bears run faster than people do. Bears have a better sense of smell than people do. Bear encounters often happen in areas where visibility is limited, which makes sense because if you saw it a ways off you'd probably avoid it.

The only way you get close to a bear is if it's a cub, in which case look out for Mama. Even cubs will usually try to avoid you.

If the rangers are looking for a "dangerous" bear, I'm sure they do so with big caliber rifles or shotguns. For normal, day to day work, they said they and their biologists favor spray and sticks.

Note: around Mt Mitchell, typical black bear weights would run #200-400. The record in the region is close to #800, but again that's a record. How big are the blackies in Colorado?
MLeake is offline  
Old July 23, 2009, 11:16 PM   #44
Fat White Boy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2005
Posts: 1,276
I read that in bear country, you should wear bells to warn the bears and carry pepper spray if they get too close. You can tell what kind of bears are around, by their droppings. Black bear droppings have berries, roots, mouse fur and small bones. Grizzly droppings have berries, roots, mouse fur, small bones, bells and shredded remnants of pepper spray cans....
Fat White Boy is offline  
Old July 23, 2009, 11:37 PM   #45
guntotin_fool
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 18, 2004
Posts: 1,446
I think that carrying a rifle around would be enough for the bears, I would then carry a .22 for potting dinner if legal, or for skunks or raccoons in the camp scavenging.
guntotin_fool is offline  
Old July 24, 2009, 01:41 AM   #46
cracked91
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 17, 2009
Posts: 385
Normally I would say .357. When it comes to extensive outdoors use I am a revolver man hands down. But I have heard nothing bad about XDs. In a .45 vs .357 arguement I say .357 because of better penetration. But its 5 rounds vs 13 rounds. I have to say XD. If you have extra magazines thats another bonus too. Or do yourself a favor and go buy a Ruger alaskan in .454 and you'll never have to say "Is it enough" again. At least not in North America
cracked91 is offline  
Old July 24, 2009, 06:12 AM   #47
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
If you have time to fire 13 rounds from a pistol at a bear...

... then it most likely wasn't SD, at first. You may only get off one or two shots, so you want the maximum chance with each of penetration to vitals.
MLeake is offline  
Old July 24, 2009, 11:11 AM   #48
BillCA
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 28, 2004
Location: Silicon Valley, Ca
Posts: 7,087
Bear Spray Substitute

__________________
BillCA in CA (Unfortunately)
BillCA is offline  
Old July 24, 2009, 09:51 PM   #49
elkman06
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 14, 2006
Location: Wyoming
Posts: 885
Well, Having occasion to come upon a 500lb blackie which happened to be munching on the remains of my Moms' moose, I can state, without reservation that I wished to have been still carrying my rifle as opposed to the .357 at my side. I fired two warning rounds which didn't deter the bear from his dinner. It worried him but didn't scare him off.
I have to agree with whomever said that a pistol is only good to fight your way back to the rifle that you should not have dropped in the first place.

extra weight, don't bother.
elkman06
__________________
"The right of the citizens to bear arms in the defense of themselves and of the state shall not be denied." Wyoming Constitution Article 1, Sec24

"Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6"
elkman06 is offline  
Old July 24, 2009, 10:37 PM   #50
MBGSXR600
Member
 
Join Date: January 23, 2008
Posts: 20
I always have my 45 when i go out.. you never no what will happen, and at what point ... you could put your rifle down and then bam.. BEAR!!! right behind you .. Stuff always happens that way.. was cleaning my kill last year right by a river.. kept seeing bear tracks all around me.. i was just praying one would not come up to me when i only had my knife in my hand... I would take the 40cal with some +P rounds.. i used my XD alot in the colder wet climets of CO and WY.. never had an issue what so ever.

Last edited by JohnKSa; March 27, 2010 at 04:34 AM. Reason: Terminology adjustment
MBGSXR600 is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.14602 seconds with 8 queries