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Old July 21, 2009, 01:38 PM   #1
ophidia
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WLP primers vs CCI large pistol magnum

On the packaging for the WLP primers, it says that they are for standard and magnum loads, while CCI/Remington/etc. have seperate primers for each application. Is the WLP primer therefore not as hot as the CCI magnum large pistol primer?

I'm just trying to work up some 44 mag loads and all I have are WLP, can't find the CCI locally (or at all, now, actually) and am having some unburned powder.
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Old July 21, 2009, 02:54 PM   #2
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Bummer. Around here the CCI LP magnum primers are the most plentiful of all. But yeah, the standard WLP primers won't work for slow burning powders like 296 or H110. You'll either have to find the magnum primers or else find a faster powder. Before all the magnum primers started showing up here, I was looking for 2400 powder for my big handguns. Neither 2400 nor AA #9 need magnum primers and they give some pretty hot loads. Alas though, I can't find those powders. For awhile though about all I could use was Unique for the 44.
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Old July 21, 2009, 03:06 PM   #3
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Quote: "But yeah, the standard WLP primers won't work for slow burning powders like 296 or H110. You'll either have to find the magnum primers or else find a faster powder."

Winchester states these primers are suitable for standard or magnum loads and my results confirm that. Their WLP primers have been working just fine in my .44 Mag revolvers for nearly 20 years using full power loads of W296 powder. My loads yield 1400 and 1425 fps with 250 gr cast lead bullets thru Oehler chrono in a pair of S&W M629 Classic pistols. Accuracy is excellent. Have used the same primers in mid power loads for target practice with the .44 Mag's.
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Old July 21, 2009, 03:12 PM   #4
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2nd that LHB1 , all ive used for many years is WLP for my 44mag and 45 LC. heavy doses of H110 in both and never a missfire or ignition problem !
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Old July 21, 2009, 03:46 PM   #5
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WLP are a dual purpose primer closer in strength to a magnum primer. It is plenty of oomph for H110/W296 class powders.
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Old July 21, 2009, 08:56 PM   #6
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Yep , I have used WLP with 296/H110 for years in the 44 mag with great accuracy.
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Old July 22, 2009, 12:55 AM   #7
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Try this first, You might try a little more crimp, it will help with a more complete burn. Magnum handguns with slow powders like firm crimps.

Second,..
And...I quote, (from the Sept. '09 "Shooting Times") "there are two ways to make a Magnum primer,either use more of the standard chemical mix to provide longer-burning flame or change the mix to one with more aggressive burn characteristics.
(While the next section has nothing to do with the OP's .44 Mag, it still was interesting)
Prior to 1989, CCI used the first option in Magnum Rifle primers. After that, CCI switched to a mix optimized for spherical propellants that produced a 24-percent increase in flame temperature and a 16 percent boost in gas volume.

Annnywhoo...it goes on to say how different and complicated the primers can be, too much "gas volume" (from the primer) can unseat the bullet and create its own problems.

So your problems may be both.
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Old July 22, 2009, 08:19 AM   #8
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I loaded up a few last night with a very heavy crimp. I might take them out tonight to see if that resolved it.

Thanks for all the info!
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Old July 22, 2009, 08:33 AM   #9
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I have used them in my 45 ACP load work great. Few failed to fire. about 10 out 1000. But think that have been on the back of that self for years before I found them.
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Old July 22, 2009, 08:53 AM   #10
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I use WLP primers when loading my 41 Mag with H110 and they work every time. Doesn't matter what the bullet weight is. I use a Lee FCD as the last step.
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Old July 22, 2009, 11:03 AM   #11
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On my own on this...

I guess I'm out on my own on this, but when I used to load for 44, and 41 (lost due to wife # 1, sad to say) I always used a CCI Mag. Pistol - my loads for both centered around 2400, and since it seemed my S & W's liked warm loads I felt I needed the extra primer for the heavy 2400 amounts.

Currently, I load 357 - and yes, 2400 - about 15 grains and I always still use CCI Mag. primers - however, remember that the 357 is using a small pistol primer, as opposed to the larger cal. using large primers - makes a difference I would think.

Anyway - that's my 2 cents worth!

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Old July 22, 2009, 02:55 PM   #12
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20+ years of WLP and 22 - 23 gr of WW296 in .44 mag. Plenty of ignition!
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Old July 22, 2009, 09:00 PM   #13
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I never had any issues with this load with my .44 mag Super Redhawk (which now belongs to my dad). It's a stout as hell load, but I got complete powder burn with WLP and H110. The primers were very slightly flattened, though, so I rarely loaded this one up for that gun.

In the Desert Eagle, the primers look perfect, and it's a hell of a fireball, but enough unburned powder to foul the chamber and cause feeding problems. The only thing I could think of is maybe the pressure drop from the gas port right in the front of the chamber, but isn't it already past the critical point of ignition by the time the bullet moves past there and clears the gas port?

I haven't had a chance to get the test loads I just made up out to the range, but I barely belled the cases and crimped them as heavily as I could with the Lee FCD-- to the point where the brass actually flows slightly forward so it looks like a messed up taper crimp.

I love the gun but it's a picky $hit :P. I need to get a hell of a lot more reliable action out of it before I'm comfortable taking it out hunting this fall. Damn primer shortage!
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Old July 23, 2009, 07:11 AM   #14
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Quote:
crimped them as heavily as I could with the Lee FCD-- to the point where the brass actually flows slightly forward so it looks like a messed up taper crimp.
That makes the crimp less secure against the pressure of ignition. Back off till it looks like a roll crimp without the shiney ring, AND reduce your belling to the absolute minimum needed. My experience is that overbelling causes the loose crimp problem with jacketed bullets, I reduce the bell slightly and the problem goes away.
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Old July 23, 2009, 12:51 PM   #15
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I guess I'll just have to shoot these up and then do it differently with the next loads. Part of the problem is the cases are all slightly different lengths, so I'm going to have to go through the rest of my .44 mag brass and trim it up. The crimp varies a bit from cartridge to cartridge.
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Old July 25, 2009, 06:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
But yeah, the standard WLP primers won't work for slow burning powders like 296 or H110.
Hornady lists Winchester WLP as the primer they used for the 44 Magnum load data in two of their manuals I have , the 4th Edition and 6th Edition. If it were not a suitable primer I highly doubt Hornady would list it in data where both 296 and H110 were included.
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Old July 25, 2009, 10:29 AM   #17
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I've found this to be a very interesting thread. The point is moot in my case, though, as I scored 1500 CCI magnum primers at the locally owned superstore (Scheels). They were 4 bucks/hundred(!) but I got 'em and am set for a while. I'm going to experiment with other powders for this gun as well, and I have about the same number of WLP's. Finally I'm well stocked with primers (for me, anyway)!

Thanks for all the input, guys. This is a great forum, and I like all the activity on it. Good stuff.

Chris
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Old July 25, 2009, 04:05 PM   #18
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Hang-fires

I've experienced hangfires using WLP primers with 296 powder in .45 Colt, ["Ruger-Only", type loads], with full heavy rolled crimps. The exact same load with the exception of using CCI magnum primers worked just fine. The ammo was loaded the same day and shot the same day from the same Ruger Vaquero within minutes of each other on a mildly cool cloudy day. All cases were of the same brand and trimmed to the same length and crimped identically without moving the die in the press in any way. I continue to use WLP primers, but not with that powder. What I like about WLP primers is their brass color that immediately distinguishes, say, a 950 fps load from something more powerful that otherwise looks identical when they get mixed up in a real life situation as in a gunbelt or ammo pouch where the ammo is separated from its labeled box. And yes, I prefer AA-9 over W-296. I think it's less finicky and more reliable over a wider range of charge weights. These days we're currently experiencing a lot of shortages of components and I think many of us are being challenged to make-do with what we can get rather than what we would prefer. Good luck to all, Pathfinder45.
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Old July 26, 2009, 01:27 AM   #19
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Man I don't know what batch of WW296 and WLP you ran into, but I have loaded thousands of rounds of .357 and .44 mag with nary a problem. Great ignition and lots of velocity. Very consistent and reliable. I sort of think WINCHESTER might have intended their MAGNUM powder and MAGNUM primers (WLP) work together.

In the reloading community WW296 is considered one of the all-time premier magnum handgun powders.

The way you reload may favor another combination, but for the majority of reloaders who have used it WW296 is topnotch.
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Old July 28, 2009, 03:49 AM   #20
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WLP

I believe that 296 is the powder used in factory Winchester 44 mag rounds,so I would think that if Winchester needed a mag primer for them they would produce it and not get a mag primer from someone else.I have load data from Hornady that they used the WLP and H110/W296 as well.
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Old July 28, 2009, 07:19 AM   #21
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I seem to be getting complete powder burns with the CCI primers now. My thought is perhaps the gas being bled off to work the action lowers the pressure slightly but enough to prevent a complete burn with the slightly less hot WLP primer.

This seems feasible to me, but I'm no ballistician. This could also explain why the gun functions well on "+p+" loads (this is what they call them on a relatively active DEP forum I found) which are slightly beyond published maximum loads. This seems fairly dangerous to me, so I'm not going to try it at this point, but there are plenty of people who apparently have good luck with this.
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Old July 29, 2009, 06:25 PM   #22
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I use WLP, Fed LP and LPM in my H110 loads in 41 mag.

With my loads, primers didn't make a difference in unburnt powder, as did a good crimp. I wasn't crimping because I was being a tight wad and thinking a crimp would wear the brass prematurely, but was getting unburnt powder and inconsistent performance.
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Old July 29, 2009, 09:16 PM   #23
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I'm using CCI 350 primers for my .44 Mag loads now, but I'd like to consolidate primers and just keep WLP's on hand in the future, if these provide reliable ignition in cold weather.

If nobody has any cold weather info on ignition, I guess I'll have to work up my own data ( )
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Old July 29, 2009, 10:17 PM   #24
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I think the main thing is the WLP cup thickness is adequate for the higher pressure loads. They've been used by many people for everything from precision target loads to magnum loads ever since they came out, and I don't recall every hearing a complaint before the misfire mentioned above. That may be a mainspring issue?
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Old July 29, 2009, 11:12 PM   #25
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The OP didn't say he was having misfires. He's combating unburnt powder and dirtiness issues. But it sounds like the magnum primers have solved the problem so far.
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