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Old July 25, 2009, 04:09 PM   #26
Willie Lowman
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You do know that you would be looking at a 3 month wait if you have a dealer on hand that has the suppressor you want in stock.

If you have to order it, you aren't gonna have it by deer season.
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Old July 25, 2009, 08:13 PM   #27
Enron Exec
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Funny, i have a Gemtech G5, one of my friends has the M4-1000, and another has the YHM Phantom. Out of our 16" carbines, the G5 was significantly more quiet thent he M4-1000 and a hair quieter then the Phantom. It also has the quickest detach/attach bi-lock.

That AAC video is propaganda, every suppressor fired rapid enough will eventually self destruct. When you need to unleash 500 rnds in 10 mins and not only 450 from your AR, then maybe its worth losing sleep at night.
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Old July 25, 2009, 09:12 PM   #28
kiwi56
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Suppressors

Willie your script at the bottom of your post is incorrect as you cannot silence a mid to hi power centerfire rifle round. By silence I mean as the Oxford conscice dictionary states "silent" meaning no audible noise. I have seen no so called silencers that could truly make a weapon silent, hell even a blow pipe makes a noise. However you can suppress them and get the sound level down usually by at least 60% sometimes more, I don't know why people insist on using the word silent or silence when their rifles are not. Would your "silenced" rifle stand up to a test with a sound level meter to show that it was truly silent, I seriously doubt it. Even taking into account the supersonic speed of the bullet if you took a blank cartridge and put it in the rifle would it still be silent then, I don't think so.
I had a friend used to say he bought something that was brand new reconditioned and that reminds me a lot about the words silence as used in suppressor. Just poor use of the English language. Either something is truly silent or it is not there are no half measures, your weapon is suppressed or sound moderated.
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Old July 25, 2009, 10:25 PM   #29
Crosshair
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Quote:
Out of our 16" carbines, the G5 was significantly more quiet thent he M4-1000 and a hair quieter then the Phantom. It also has the quickest detach/attach bi-lock.
I never said it wasn't quiet. As far as suppression, people seem to like the G5. I was just pointing out that it has serious design deficiencies when it comes to durability.

Quote:
That AAC video is propaganda, every suppressor fired rapid enough will eventually self destruct. When you need to unleash 500 rnds in 10 mins and not only 450 from your AR, then maybe its worth losing sleep at night.
Then please refute the points the video makes. Explain the complete lack of structural welds. Did they disappear with the rapid firing? The use of roll pins and titanium for a high-stress/high temp environment. Roll pins are something you rarely see even in Form 1 garage cans. (My washer baffle TAC-16 doesn't even use them.) The use of a pinned inconel insert instead of a full inconel blast baffle.

There is also the other video I posted where the G5 is clearly puking its guts partway through the first round.

The military really doesn't openly release the test results of it's suppressor testing, they always refer to the different test samples using numbers. From what I have read, even the top contenders suffered damage from the test, but they survived while maintaining suppressability and without catastrophic damage.

The point is that the G5 may be a quiet can, but it most certainly is not a mil-spec can as Gemtech claims and one would be ill advised to put it on anything more than a bolt gun.
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Old July 25, 2009, 11:21 PM   #30
Enron Exec
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I cant dispute your argument of the construction on the G5 can. But, no where on their website does it say welded this or that in the G5. As for that video where the Gemtech sales rep talks about welded this and that, I put very lil stock in the words of a salesman, especially whos background i know nothing of.

In this video, a M4-1000 looked like it didnt survive 1 round of the test. I know its an older gen can, but these things arent exactly advancing by leaps and bounds. So how come this AAC can failed?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjiDtrA3P8A

And vid1 shows the test indoors, guys in T-shirts, with static air. But most importantly, its on a 10.5" barrel, unlike the AAC M4-1000 can on what looked like a carbine length barrel, out doors, with guys wearing jackets.


Did the lil kid at the end of vid2 call the test in vid 1 BS? lol Cause it sure looked like they reproduced the test outdoors on a 10.5" colt commando setup and the G5 looked as good as it was before the test.

In the end, i still dont buy that the G5 is an inferior can. When they get 2 of the same guns under the same conditions testing 2 different cans, id be more privy to believe these types of vids.
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Old July 26, 2009, 05:38 AM   #31
PTK
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I know its an older gen can, but these things arent exactly advancing by leaps and bounds
As I wasn't present on the testing incidents you're referring to, I won't touch the other points.

However - and this is a big deal - AAC improves almost every model they have at least once a year. My 2008 762SD was significantly different, and quieter, then a friend's 2006 762SD. My 2008 M4-1000 is quieter and somewhat heavier (probably much more robust) than the 2005 I test-shot at my dealer's house.

The Evo-45 2008 model I have is quieter than their 2006 model - I shot them side-by-side both with 5mL of water, mine on my HK USP-T, the 2006 on my dealer's HK USP-T.

Just thought I'd throw my $.02 in regarding the innovation in this field.
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Old July 26, 2009, 09:52 AM   #32
jmorris
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Quote:
I have seen no so called silencers that could truly make a weapon silent
I have a .22lr can that I built that has no audible report using subsonic ammunition. It makes less noise when firing ammunition than when dry firing as the brass soaks up energy from the firing pin. I looked for a while for one of the Krico/Beeman electronic ignition .22 bolt guns so I could have a truly silent rifle but they only imported 200 or so of them.

Quote:
I know its an older gen can, but these things arent exactly advancing by leaps and bounds.
My M4 1000 08 (that is supposedly the same as a M4 2000 07) is completely different than my M4 2000 08.

I guess I don’t understand why this discussion is running around .223 cans. Was this about coyotes or hogs?
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Old July 26, 2009, 05:07 PM   #33
kiwi56
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suppresssors

Jmorris, If you read our previous posts we were talking about mid to high power centerfire suppressors and even with relatively low powered handgun center fire such as 38special or or down loaded 9mm they will not be truly silent. I have no doubt with those calibers you could build a can that was almost noise free but the can would be so big as to be not very practical to use. You can reduce sound levels dramatically as I have found on my 45 but silent is just plain b/s
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Old July 26, 2009, 08:19 PM   #34
jmorris
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I have read the previous posts and 12 of them mention something about .22 rimfire.
I agree that “Hollywood” quiet is what many envision every suppressed firearm to sound like and are disappointed when they hear how loud they really are but you said “no” (as in any) I was just pointing out that there are some out there.
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Old July 26, 2009, 11:56 PM   #35
Singlesix1954
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45 acp with suppresor is the way to go. Lots of momentem and little report. Once you shoot one you will start to understand why the idiots made it a law to pay the tax for a permit.
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