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Old July 19, 2009, 01:35 AM   #1
Peptobismol9
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Maybe im wrong?

It was 12:30 and the door creaked open. It was dark, I snatched a 870 magnum shotgun in 20 gauge, Cocked it, and got out of the bed quick. I was out of bed, locked cocked and ready to roll in about 2 seconds because the shotgun is right next to my bed in the corner. Well, I get out the door and my blood is pumping, and my mom is standing outside going "HERE KITTY KITTY KITTY." Trying to get the cat iin the house. The Gun wasnt loaded. My mom was ,mad. She was actually, mad that I was willing to jump out of bed with a shotgun and defend the house and my family. She said Im Evil for considering (as if I havent already made up my mind) resorting to a shotgun during a home invasion, Because I dont know the persons circumstances. My thoughts - If they dont consider my circumstances before Opening my door and waltsing in at 12:30, Why should I risk my life to consider theirs.
I would like feedback. Am I right or wrong? Should I change my view on the situation? This really bothers me for some reason.
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Old July 19, 2009, 01:58 AM   #2
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Quote:
locked cocked and ready to roll
Quote:
The Gun wasnt loaded
Call me a prick all you want but your mom's anger was justified if the home is hers and you are not in agreement with her that you are allowed to defend the home.
Now for the real reason for my reply...
In quote one, you lied to us and yourself... locked and cocked maybe but ready to roll? Maybe you meant "ready to row" cuz an empty shotgun makes a better canoe paddle than club.
I was raised that you never bring a knife to a gun fight and an empty firearm is less useful than a cubscout knife. Also Family rule number one was never point a gun at anything you are not ready to kill and an empty gun won't kill so don't bring it to bear.
Do what you want but a golf putter is a far better weapon than an empty 870.
And once again, you and your family should have a serious discussion where the rules of home defense and each occupant's role in this are defined and set in stone... LIVES ARE AT RISK! If it is not your house, you really have no say in this...

EDIT FOR...
If it is YOUR home than I think you need to explain your stance on home defense but suggest shells for the gun are kept handy if not in it.
And loose cats outside are targets for me and my dogs if I spot them....

Brent
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Old July 19, 2009, 01:59 AM   #3
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wrong to defend your home against unknown persons entering at all hours of the night? in my opinion, NO. if your mom knows you own a weapon and are ready to take action against intruders, then she should have no reason to get angry and should have expected it anyway.

P.S.--- next time it may not be your mom, so try and have a few shells in that street sweeper!
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Old July 19, 2009, 01:59 AM   #4
Farmland
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I don't know your age but if one of my kids comes down the stairs with a loaded shot gun they would get the back of my hand. I would expect them to wake me up. That is my view point.
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Old July 19, 2009, 02:00 AM   #5
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Quote:
Am I right or wrong?
Where do you live? Btw, imho, wrong.
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Old July 19, 2009, 02:06 AM   #6
Peptobismol9
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Despite that. I didnt say I loaded it. I understand The issue of having an unloaded gun, but I have had a bad encounter with my dad, Involving a loaded mosin nagant. I dont want to go through that again. You also have to consider I just woke up. This is from someone who wakes up, but has eye problems. I cant see for a good 3 minutes, but I wasnt that far asleep. I was too busy staying up to catch my tv shows around 11. when I said cocked locked and ready to roll I refered to my ability to ready myself for the situation rather than the action of the gun. If you really think you could do better, I hate to say it, But you would probally be suprised. I think It was justifiable because the front door is within arms length of my flimsy broken door. Oh and I just noticed a detail. I didnt aim The gun. So, PFFFFFFFFFFFFFTTTTTTTTTT. Jesus H Christ, would everybody listen to this guy. Talks so tough behind a computer monitor. I came here for a idea on right or wrong not A bunch of bullcrap he probally prepared yesterday.
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Old July 19, 2009, 02:18 AM   #7
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Actually, I was being trained to handle various HD situations from 6 years old when dad showed me which single shot 12 gauge was always loaded and how to get off one shot if ever we were intruded upon while "sissy" babysat us. Later on at 12 I was allowed to keep my .410 in my room but unloaded and I had an assortment of rounds chosen by my father for various uses. I had #6 for cats, #4 for coons or small dogs, Buck and slugs for all other threats. I wasn't to leave my room armed if dad was home unless I heard a physical scuffle than I was expected to as I was if he wasn't home as I was second in command for HD duty with momma being the only one allowed to stand me down. I wasn't but 14 when momma had a belligerent person on our porch intimidating her... She hollered to me awaking me with "Son come here quick and bring your dog..." I knew what she meant as I didn't have a personal dog and the family dog didn't sleep in a closed bedroom. Every family is different as is every person but I have always been pretty quick to get ready once awake albeit a deep sleeper. In "MY" house I keep my gun loaded, my 19 year old son is not allowed to leave his room armed unless requested or I am not home.
We have these rules so he is not mistaken in haste for an armed intruder. When he does leave the room he is to speak out, even if it is to sound as if he is the defender as I know his voice. If I need help I know he is gonna be right there loaded for bear.
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Old July 19, 2009, 02:19 AM   #8
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Age/Location? That makes a huge difference in assessing your actions, imho. I don't see how you can be faulted that much, if you live in Detroit, a seriously shady part of Houston, El Paso, maybe even Atlanta, and definitely South Central LA.

However, if your 15 and living in Jackson hole, Aspen, or Palm Beach you need to rethink your situation, to say the least.
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Old July 19, 2009, 02:19 AM   #9
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Let me go ahead and verify the situation. It was a last resort, and I knew it always. My parents room is across the house, and I have a door thats just dying to come off the hinges. No phone, I lost it in the creek, And a shotgun was readily available. I know for afact my door will not stay shut even when locked because the wooden frame is broken where the metal thingy majigger that holds it closed goes. So It was a last resort. I am a little paranoid, because I had an incident in middle school that turned my whole life into a cluster ****. I also Used to hang out with the wrong crowd. These were people that I didnt know were capable of what they are, but I live in constant lookout because of this. I have been treated for paranoia, and It was determined I am safe to own a gun. My parents do know my situation, I think the reason my mom was mad was because she was only as awake as I was. So if anyone thinks they really have aright to judge me, I honestly want to know why, and what you would have done, so maybe I can resort to that instead of a shotgun. I didnt ask for a bunch of smart mouthed crap. I apoplogize for my language, but im a little freaked out right now, and I know im not going to be able to get to sleep. So please, only serious answers.
Also I live in mobile county, Alabama, im 16. And for those that dont know, It is really shady here. It wasnt always bad but in the past 5 or 6 years crim e has raised alot. we have had stalkers in the neighborhood, and a few break ins on my block. Also, forgot to mention, my exes brands new 20 yr old boyfreind, hates me, cause my ex talked him into beleving I beat her. Which I am very against.
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Old July 19, 2009, 02:26 AM   #10
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I never said you pointed your weapon... I am speaking as I see it. And what I said was prepared many years ago... likely before you were even born.
I am not one who
Quote:
Talks so tough behind a computer monitor.
I am a husband and father who decides how and when people will tote a deadly weapon around. Like I tell my son routinely... "MY HOUSE, MY RULES, MY WAY OR THE HIGHWAY..."
If what I post to you in all honesty regarding your request for advice offends you... So Sad Too Bad... You came on to a premier forum dedicated to the responsible ownership, handling and use of firearms for all purposes up to and including the use for legal self defense requiring lethal force... We are a serious bunch and wait until Mrs.Pax (a mother of many) gets to read this....
May I suggest her website...
http://www.corneredcat.com/
Lots of good info...
Brent
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Old July 19, 2009, 02:34 AM   #11
Peptobismol9
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Do whatever. But I didnt load that shotgun, And I didnt aim it. I had it because I didnt know the situation going on behind that door. I follwed Gun saftey even when I beleived I was in danger. I am grateful for the advice, If thats what it is, But I assure you I will put It to use. Honestly Your way of things impresses me, But I dont beleive you analyzed the situation enough before Speaking out against me. I Follow gun saftey everyday of my life and personally aspire to become a gun saftey instructor for young children. If my Dad ever saw me pick up a firearm with the breech or bolt closed, without checking it, He would backhand me. I dont expect everyone to understand the situation, but your response Isnt pleasing. I apologize for my response personally, And would like to re-evaluate the situation in a mature manner. Hopefully you being older will be able to follow that. So shall we discuss this civilized, or do you really need to carry on like a madman. Cause I can do this allllll night.
By the way I dont get the cornered cat suggestion. Please explain, and I would be glad to share with her myself If I agree with the situation.
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Old July 19, 2009, 02:36 AM   #12
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"...change my view on the situation?..." Yep. 'They' had nothing to do with it. You scared your ma, her reaction and the possiblities has scared you. S'ok. It's not unusual. Mom will get over it and so should you.
Mind you, an unloaded firearm, of any kind, isn't of much use. Get out of bed first and load. Then investigate the noise. Lights on generally means something normal is going on. You'd best take some 'Use of Force' classes though. And fix the door.
In any case, relax. You're not evil. Mom is mad because you scared her. Has nothing to do with the shotgun or your willingness to defend the house. Isn't the cat either.
Used to scare my ma just by walking into the kitchen in absolute silence.
Her irrational fear of mice provided me no end of laughs. Put a $2, tiny, fur, cat toy, mouse next to her tea cup, while she was reading the newspaper, one time. Then went to the other end of the house. Less than 5 minutes later, I hear, "I hate you." from the kitchen. Laughed so hard it still hurts.
Did tell her to go away when the cat found a real mouse in a cupboard though. Silly woman had a bag of dry dog food way back in a corner. Mouse thought it was a dandy meal.
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Old July 19, 2009, 02:36 AM   #13
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Since I now know your age I am reaffirming my replies totally! I also assure you my stance and decisions on how my home would be defended and by whom were made a few years before you were born. In my first reply to, before you got to posting to me as if I know not what I speak of... you will see I suggest a serious sit down with the powers that be in your home...
If ya'll have already determined that you do in fact, have open permission to exit your room after hours with a firearm for home defense reasons than I apologize for making that mistake assuming you don't but your OP seems as if it isn't openly decided that you are in that position.
You later staed it takes you a few moments to get coherent and have bad vision... Both of those are issues I would consider before granting you the authority to defend even your own room...
And again, an empty gun is worthless for HD!
Sorry if I came off wrong but it is hard for me to handle these threads any different.
Brent
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Old July 19, 2009, 02:43 AM   #14
Peptobismol9
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Im glad we could work this out, And yes I do have permission from my father to shoot whoever might harm me, granted I dont aim, load, or shoot until Im absolutey positive about the situation. My mother has a very different opinion, and It is her reaction that caused me to rethink my view on this matter. I did perform the action of cocking the shotgun as soon as I grabbed it, To eject any shells In it, And allow everyone outside the door to figure out what was about to go down. My dad, Has the same opinion as me on dealing with these types of situation. I am the biggest gun lover around the block I live on and Alot of little kids look up to me, So I always show the highest amount of respect and saftey for firearms, so as to influence them well. I do teach young children in my family the saftey techniques involved in handling a firearm.
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Old July 19, 2009, 02:51 AM   #15
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HAHAHA. OMG. SPEAK OF THE DEVIL. I just complained about my door being very flimsy. I got up not long ago, walked to my room, Twisted the knob and pushed, and The inner door frame ( part in my room ) Completley fell apart. I couldnt resist coming back and typing about it. Its like the door frame was in on it. Haha. It hasnt fallen apart for months since it was broken, and Finally after This, It falls apart.
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Old July 19, 2009, 02:54 AM   #16
hogdogs
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The cornered cat website is loaded with excellent info regarding many aspects of gun handling far beyond the basics... From a mother's side of the coin but great for all to read. Pax is the owner of that website and the most active moderator of this section and no one will have to point her to this thread as she reads every single one I bet.

Brent
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Old July 19, 2009, 02:56 AM   #17
Peptobismol9
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i just realized the meaning of the cornerd cat thing. Its actually really nice. It is something To consider, but Im a male. So the whole women and guns thing is a bit odd. But guns are guns, and gun saftey is gun saftey, wether you are a male or a female. So thanks for the link, I will read over it and use it.
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Old July 19, 2009, 02:56 AM   #18
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Mobile Alabama is a very nice city. I spent a day there, on a drive from New Orleans to Jacksonville. Mobile is a really beautiful city on the gulf coast.

I simply can't believe that it has turned into the Los Angeles of Alabama.
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Old July 19, 2009, 02:59 AM   #19
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Lol. Depends on the part of mobile. I remembe having to meet someone for Madi Gras one year, and making a wrong turn. I was young, so It was a bit scary. Toulmnaville and places like that are places you want to avoid. But you have a point, It is a good place to go on vacation. Their are alot of cruise ships going in the bay there too. So it might be something for you to check out. PS. AVOID The outskirts of Fort Condi at all cost, cause gang activity is horrible there from what I here, and its where all the shootings happen I keep hearing about in the news paper. That along with Goverment Boulevard. Last year there was a small school shooting. One person was injured, not to big of a bad deal. Most shootings happen in backyards.
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Old July 19, 2009, 03:05 AM   #20
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Some random thoughts

Pax is a moderator on this forum and owns/runs a web site called "Cornered Cat" that is written from the female point of view. But her advice is not just good for women. Men can benefit, too, not only in understanding how women view firearms, tactics and deadly force, but also in understanding use of those things. Firearms, tactics and use of deadly force does not discriminate between genders.

Pax is also a parent of several children (not even counting those of us on this forum who can use a guiding hand now and again.)

Now, my thoughts about home defense. The 870 is a fine firearm for home defense. But it is definitely the last line of defense against home invasion. First line of defense is working, lockable doors and windows. Get those priorities straight.

Second, showing up in a tactical frame of mind unprepared for a fight is not a good plan. Have a tactical plan that everyone in the home agrees with. And have it before you need it. (Have one for fire, earthquake, tornado, what have you also).

The head of the household should set the ground rules for how a home invasion or lost cat or anything between is handled. If you are head of household, be head of household. If you are not, then follow the lead of the head. If your parents are in disagreement, ledt them work it out. If you are an adult (or near adult) living at home take your adult responsibilities seriously and communicate with your parents as best you can to reach a family consensus.

Good luck, and fix that door for your Mom and Dad and for everyone's peace of mind. They will be impressed. If you don't have the carpentry skills, figure out a way. But ALWAYS "Honor thy Father and thy Mother".

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Post Script: Thanks for asking our advice here. Rest assured that everyone takes your question seriously and is telling you what they believe to be true with sincerity and to the best of their abilities. Whether they do it diplomatically is like being a good shot. Some have the knack and some have to work harder at it. Cut them the same slack you want.
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Old July 19, 2009, 03:07 AM   #21
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Pepto...

I see in the most recent post you're sixteen and living at home. Nothing wrong with that, but it also helps those of us who are older understand your thinking and opinions.

Your bedroom door isn't secure and, as you say, it's very close to the front door. To me, that would justify maintaining the shotgun loaded with an empty chamber for preparedness.

You reference an eye condition that means you can't see (or have trouble seeing) for several minutes after waking up. I'm not sure if this is simply goopy "sleep" in your eyes or some other, more serious condition. However, in either case, you need to be aware that it is your responsibility to identify your target before engaging with a firearm. That means, legally, you have to be able to determine the person was a serious threat to you -- as opposed to being, say, a firefighter or a guest in the house.

Given the combination of eye problems and physical security, your best bet would be to hold up in your bedroom until you can see well enough to comprehend what's going on.

In the relevant situation you outlined, ask yourself what would have happened if there had been one or two people coming through the door? And you with an unloaded shotgun (or an "unready" shotgun).

Even if your eyes are clear, with your bedroom door so close to the point of entry, exiting the room is not tactically sound. It puts you into immediate "lunge & grab" range of potential intruders before you can assess the situation.

Somewhat more prudent might have been to move to the bedroom door and carefully look over the area before leaving the room. This way, if you see a person you might identify them (friend/foe/known/unknown) first. That moment, seeing nothing, might give you pause and when you heard "Kitty Kitty!" you'd know your mom was the source of the noise.

The good is that you are willing to protect yourself and family and you have the tool(s) to do so. The bad is you are rushing to engage without thinking of tactics and your own safety. Don't be in a hurry to engage as you may not be able to disengage if things turn sour on you.

From your mother's perspective, she probably thinks you were over-reacting to the noise. After all, from her viewpoint, all she did was get up, walk to the door, and step outside to call the cat. Then there you are with your shotgun.

If her opinion is that it might be "merely" someone asking to use the phone, someone looking for directions or some other "plausible" reason for being there then she needs to be educated on how criminals gain access to homes of trusting souls like her.

If she puts forth the "circumstances" argument, ask her what circumstances would justify someone entering the home and, say, shooting you in each knee to get money or valuables. Remind her there is no point on relying on a criminal's mercy - for he may not have any mercy on his victims.

You need to discuss with your mother what she expects to do or happen if an unsavory intruder does enter the house. She may be of the belief that an angry woman telling him to get out whilst waving an 8-inch cast iron skillet is sufficient (it is, if it works!). If she doesn't believe in taking another person's life, that's fine. However, if that intruder comes after you, you still retain the right to defend yourself as necessary.
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Old July 19, 2009, 03:27 AM   #22
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Yeah. My carpentry skills are limited. Im not allowed to use power tools but at the same time they have no problem with letting me collect firearms. My door frame, even before falling apart, had a mess of bent jagged nails holding it together. I will discuss this with my mom, And I like the way you put things. I will try to use that as an advantage in my explanation for my actions. Im supposed to get up at 6:00 and go to the river, so I will soon be able to talk to her. Im even thinking about buying everyone a nagant or shotgun for their saftey, and then coming up with a better plan.
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Old July 19, 2009, 03:32 AM   #23
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"...I'm 16..." That's a bit different, but not by much. In any case, grasshopper, chill. You scared your mom. That's all. You didn't do anything the rest of us wouldn't do, except not loading the shotgun. Relax. Da not home at the time?
"...cornered cat..." Females with firearms website. Doesn't apply to you.
Anyway, All cats, even lions and tigers, have two reactions to everything. Fight or run. You opted to fight. Even though it was a bit much without any training, you opted to stand. Not bad for a 16 year old. You have to learn some tactics and to deal with the talents and hinderances you have.
"...cant see for a good 3 minutes..." Wait, put your specs on, assuming you wear 'em and listen. You need to be able to see to do anything.
"...the reason my mom was mad was because..." Nope. Mom was mad because you scared her. You came out of nowhere when she was trying to deal with the cat. Has nothing to do with the gun. Trust me.
"...my door..." Fix it. You're not a stupid guy. Figure it out and fix the friggin' door. Fxing a door isn't rocket science.
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Old July 19, 2009, 03:44 AM   #24
Peptobismol9
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Im loving the responses. I thought everyone was going to be as bad as the guy who said I should be slapped. I was wrong. I feel 100% comftorable with the situation, And Im going to get some eye drops, and fix my door. Actually Im going to put up a metal dead bolt door. That would turn my room into a safe room. Hehe. Well except the window anyways. I also think I will install security lights with motion detectors outside. But I will put very very bright bulbs in them so they are blinding. This has inspired me to change my idea of "safe and sound". The only thing that bothers me now, is talking my parents into letting me put some ammo in my mags. They consider it unsafe for bullets to be within 3 ft of a gun. They have some strange ideas, but As long as they are my parents Im going to respect that and so as im told.
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Old July 19, 2009, 03:57 AM   #25
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I Think I should bring this up cause its kind of funny. About a month ago, the sheltered children next door come running over, At night, Cryting, and screaming. Let me back up and describe a little more. Its about 9:00 at night. Its humid outside and warm, Im in my boxers, Im polishing my sks up, And then it happens. Now I will proceed. I come running out to blood curdling screams you would expect to hear if someone was dying. Outside my room, Nathan, William, And Savanna all ages 5, 10, and 7, are crying and trying to talk. The Oldest, William, Manages to say that someone has broken in. I tell them wait in my room, lock the door, and call the police. I grab my rifle and go to investigate. Nobody is home at my house or theirs. The door is wide open, and the lights on. Nobody in sight. I get back after about 2 minutes of investigating, embarassed, because im just realizing im in my boxers. They are still crying, and explain upon questioning, and the fine placement of a my pants, they left the door open after, hearing a tap on the window, going to investigate, seeing somebody, and running. William had his pellet gun, and my brother, 11, had put on a ski mask and scared them again while I was gone to shut their door. I also allowed them to play PS3 while I calmed them and called their parents. They had apparently never called the cops. I let the little fumble around with my sks under heavy supervision, and the bolt open, And put it away. Their parents got home, and instead of even a "gee, thanks for taking care of my kids" I get threats and accusations, that I was the one at the window scaing them. Which seems odd, cause I was just trying to polish my gun and relax. Ehh. People can be crazy sometimes.
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