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Old July 16, 2009, 03:55 AM   #1
rickdavis81
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Small town violence

A woman I work with was shot in the head at her home today. A couple of months ago two teenage girls were stabbed to death by another teenage boy. This stuff never used to happen in my small town. Now it's a daily occurrence it seems. We were talking about the lady at work tonight and someone brung up the two girls and I realized I had already forgotten about them due to all the other tradgedies. Makes me remember why I carry everday and everywhere.
I also lost 2 friends to a car accident 4 months ago. And had another friend loose 2 kids to a house fire while they were at work with me.

Last edited by Bud Helms; July 30, 2009 at 06:36 PM. Reason: Pushing the Nanny filter: "****s getting depressing."
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Old July 16, 2009, 08:41 AM   #2
Brian Pfleuger
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Sometimes it just all happens at once. Your town will probably go ten years without another incident.
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Old July 16, 2009, 08:55 AM   #3
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As long as this economic slow down continues I expect crime and violence to continue to go up.

As people lose their jobs and suffer under crushing economic conditions some will not be able to manage the stress and turn to deviant behavior.

Also law enforcement cuts back too.

Police departments might trim patrols to save on fuel costs or overtime, or store owners might eliminate security guard jobs or skip buying surveillance cameras because they need to save money during a recession.

McCrie said crime escalated in cities in the 1960s and 1970s because police were underfunded. In New York City, he said, Mayor David Dinkins appealed for greater police funding. Combined with changes in enforcement Mayor Rudy Giuliani made later, the tide changed in the city.


http://hamptonroads.com/2009/01/stat...ing-recessions
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Old July 16, 2009, 09:13 AM   #4
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Just how big is this small town?

One of the problems with the discussion of things like this is that everything is changing all the time and it is difficult to isolate the causes and effects. It's true that some things cause problems but sometimes there are problems happen in spite of something rather than because of it. I don't know that there was any more violence in the 1930s generally (during the depression) than there had been in other decades. Another cause and effect relationship sometimes mentioned is that overcrowding in the cities is a cause of crime and violence, yet in the last 20 years cities have been losing population, as have some states or parts of states, without necessarily a reduction in crime.

And deviant behavior is whatever you want to say it is. But has there been a dramatic rise in crime in violence in the last six months compared with the same period last year? Or do you just assume there has been. And should store owners have to hire security guards at all?
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Old July 16, 2009, 09:25 AM   #5
Philo_Beddoe
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Crime very much increases during economic slow downs, alot of crime is based on stress and economic stress is a very real stressor.

Here is a graph showing the homicide rate.




As you can see homicides rates increased during times of economic hardship and decreased when economic times were good (post ww 2 boom and great economy during dot com boom)
Attached Images
File Type: jpg homicide-rates.jpg (51.2 KB, 1050 views)

Last edited by pax; July 17, 2009 at 10:24 AM. Reason: fixed oversized photo
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Old July 17, 2009, 05:57 AM   #6
rshanneck2002
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small towns are alot different today.i have seen huge increases of big city crimanals moving to small towns lately to hide their shady operations for at least a temporary amount of time,especially involving crack and meth.they befriend a local and within 30 days they own thier home lock stock and barrell at the point of a gun,threatening also their family and loved ones with said violence,when either busted or the local heat gets on them they move to the next place. i heard it just happened to a guy i worked with a few yrs back,4 miles outside a little burg of 500-600 people,they set up shop,took over his home,well you know the story.nope small towns aint what they used to be,mayberrys gone!
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Old July 17, 2009, 06:25 AM   #7
rickdavis81
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8000 people. And it's still to big for me. There are alot of meth heads in small towns anymore. Easier to hide out in the sticks.
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Old July 17, 2009, 12:51 PM   #8
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I think with the way the economy is going we will see
a rise in crime.
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Old July 17, 2009, 03:13 PM   #9
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Small towns are no longer a place to get away from crime. The presence of urban based gangs and the incident of drug usage (if not dealing) by young people is on the rise in small town America and has been for the last ten years and more.

One aspect of this I've tried to pay attention to here in rural GA, is the incidence of gun crimes. "Tried to pay attention to" not only ends in a preposition , but is a very unscientific study method, I know. However, I don't hear, or read, about the incident of crimes involving the usage or possession of firearms increasing as much as the incidence of crime in general.

Up in the big city, Atlanta, that is not true.

I should probably go find some stats to support this contention ...
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Old July 17, 2009, 03:22 PM   #10
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Be courteous to those who don't deserve it, and leave your middle finger at home. These are not the days of just getting knocked down. These are the days of gunfire.
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Old July 17, 2009, 04:43 PM   #11
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I grew up in a small town in eastern NC in the 60's, 70's and early 80's. Our town had about 900 citizens. Sort of a Mayberry kind of place where everybody knew everybody. We had one policeman to keep us safe. The sheriff's deputies went home at midnight. We didn't have yellow pages we just had a yellow page. Back then we slept with our windows open at night in the summer we would however hook our screen doors. We never gave criminals a second thought because that was something that happened in New York or California. We grew up without e-mail, cell phones, ipods, video games, internet, guns with warning lables carved into the barrels, microwaves, flat screens and 500 digital channels... the list goes on and on. It seems for all we have these days we have very little of nothing.
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Old July 17, 2009, 05:21 PM   #12
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Small towns, big towns, makes no difference:


What has happened to us when we have to cower, conceal and hide your middle finger (when someone ticks you off). Let's just be courteous to those scum bags who insult you? What do you deserve, no respect? Don't you deserve honest and decency from the low lifes of the world? Sooner or later you have to stand up for what you believe in, or we are all lost....

Note: That is not to say you have to start something in return for everything that happens to you. Then again, you just can't just walk away from everything either. Depends on each situation.

I have tried to go along with (the middle of the road folks) in the last few weeks, (am still trying too)! But sooner or later, there is only so much you can take. I agree, (initially, you should try and move on and don't start anything that may get out of control). Let them win, is fine with me to a certain degree, but sooner or later, its time to draw the line.

Let me ask a question to anyone who disagrees?

Where do you draw the line? When is, it's gone too far? If the whole nation adopts this philosphy (of cut and run) then we are in deep doo doo as human beings. I personally am getting tired of all the (let's just give them what they want attitude) and move on! What is this teaching our families and kids? What the heck is this country going to be like in 20 years if we keep up this response to aggression? By then, it will be too late to try and correct things. Slowly but surely, we are losing control or our destiny and decency.

Sure, you can say that doing nothing is teaching your family to be safe. This way, you won't be injured/harmed. Yeah right! Maybe it does and then maybe it doesen't. You never know what the dirt bags of the world are going to do to you, (after you give them every thing they want). You are hoping that they just walk away and leave you alone. Maybe the will, and then again, MAYBE THEY WON'T....

Bottom line: Big towns, little towns, unemployment is going through the roof, (crime is too)! So what are you going to do, just take it??
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Old July 17, 2009, 05:40 PM   #13
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Quote:
Let me ask a question to anyone who disagrees?

Where do you draw the line? When is, it's gone too far? If the whole nation adopts this philosphy (of cut and run) then we are in deep doo doo as human beings.
Nope. The problem is the opposite. Most people no longer believe this philosophy. It used to be that if someone was a jerk, acted like an idiot, was dishonest or just annoying then you simply didn't deal with them again.
You took your business elsewhere, you refused to let them do business with you or you simply ignored them.
Sure, there might be a fist fight every now and again, but these were for "real" issues, not some jerk cutting you off in traffic.
We are in deep doo-doo as a nation because we can no longer act like civilized people, among other reasons. We can not brush off the smallest indiscretion. Every one has to be sure the other guy "gets theirs" or make sure they aren't "disrespected", and it's nonsense.
When we learn to "turn the other cheek" again, we will be far better off as a nation and as individuals.

Quote:
Sure, you can say that doing nothing is teaching your family to be safe. This way, you won't be injured/harmed. Yeah right! Maybe it does and then maybe it doesen't. You never know what the dirt bags of the world are going to do to you...
I can not and will not live my life based on what others "might" do to me. I will respond accordingly. Ignoring when appropriate, which is almost ALWAYS, and responding with the appropriate force when necessary. No more, no less. That is how civilized people act.
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Old July 17, 2009, 08:24 PM   #14
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Hey Peetza:

Your quote: "We are in deep doo doo as a nation because we can now longer act like a civilized nations"....... I agree 100% with your comment.

However, you say: "When we learn to turn the other cheek again, we will be far better off as a nation and individuals"..... Unfortunately, turning your cheek nowadays, can get you stabbed in the back! I am afraid that we may be too far gone to ever go back to the good old days (as you are referring to) and "turn the other cheek". Sure would be nice if we could. Too many people do not respect authority anymore (or even human life for that matter). Where did it all go wrong?

Last edited by skydiver3346; July 18, 2009 at 05:02 PM.
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Old July 17, 2009, 08:37 PM   #15
Brian Pfleuger
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Unfortunately, turning your cheek nowadays, can get you stabbed in the back! I am afraid that we may be too far gone to ever go back to the good old days (as you are referring to) and "turn the other cheek". Sure would be nice if we could.
In the context of this thread, the answer to that is what I said above:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peetzakilla
Ignoring when appropriate, which is almost ALWAYS, and responding with the appropriate force when necessary. No more, no less. That is how civilized people act.
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Old July 17, 2009, 09:15 PM   #16
Edward429451
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Times they are a changin'...I thought small town violence was what happened in haylofts with hillbilly girls.
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Old July 17, 2009, 09:29 PM   #17
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Turn the other cheek, I will as I draw my weapon to plant a 45 in the frontal lobe and chest cavity.How about a Eye for an Eye.Bring back the electric chair,Pine oil heaven gas chamber,good old fashion hangings and firing squads O ya almost forgot the Guillotine.
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Old July 17, 2009, 09:35 PM   #18
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How about a Eye for an Eye.Bring back the electric chair,Pine oil heaven gas chamber,good old fashion hangings and firing squads O ya almost forgot the Guillotine.
"Eye for an eye" was meant to LIMIT retribution. It was meant to prevent people getting killed for offenses that did not merit such.

The problem we have today is that we want LIFE for an eye, or life for a stereo, as the case may be.
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Old July 18, 2009, 04:15 AM   #19
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As far as turning the other cheek goes, well if your are Jesus that might work. Jesus said it is best to try and be perfect. His deciples said in Romans it is best to not marry at all at devote your life to God, but you will not be frowned upon if you choose to marry.

Point being it is best to turn the other cheek, but you will not be frowned upon for stopping a BG from cleaning you out as long as you are following the law of the land.

The law of the land in Texas, Twilight Laws and Castle Doctrines. Would I shoot someone for stealing property from me? No.

But when it comes to BG's and all their garbage I do not believe in taking the path to the least resistance before deadly force.

Just because you put flowers in the barrels of their guns does not mean they won't shoot you.

If you spend all your time trying to avoid the fight at all cost, you are playing an unnatural game. That is why Castle Doctrines are passed, to give you the opportunity to fight if need be. It is easy to construct a perfect nice game in your head, it is another thing to play it.
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Old July 18, 2009, 08:40 AM   #20
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cloud8a ~

In that culture and in that time, a slap on the cheek was an insult. Nothing more, nothing less, and nothing else. Jesus was telling His disciples, "If someone insults you, let 'em." It's not worth fighting over an insult.

See http://www.corneredcat.com/Ethics/pacifism.aspx

I'm available to discuss this topic via PM, if anyone's interested. It's not really appropos for the open forum, and is kinda off topic for this particular thread too.

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Old July 18, 2009, 09:07 AM   #21
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Philo_Beddoe, what is the source of that chart?
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Old July 18, 2009, 09:10 AM   #22
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I will add to what Bud was saying that in GA it does get a little weird sometimes.
I have had people cherry bomb my mail box, knock out every window in the back of my house, people come to the front door and start hitting people. Just stupid stuff.
I know someone personally who just lost someone who got shot to death because the person shooting thought he was someone else because the guy who got shot was wearing the other guy's hat. The other guy was right beside him. The kid was never a gangster, and he was 19, but he did hang out with one without knowing it, and he died for it. Small town or not people are getting out of control. It is very sad.
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Old July 18, 2009, 09:21 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pax
is kinda off topic for this particular thread too.
Maybe so Kathy, but not by much. Two primary reasons why small towns are less safe than they "used to be" are the inability to walk away from an insult and the loss of the "oneness" of the population. Small towns are no longer "communities" in the true sense of the word.

Personally, I think a discussion of personal behavior, being able to take a slap on the cheek as it were, is an important concept in "tactical" behavior.


All that said, small towns in America, or even large cities, are extremely safe, all things considered. Perhaps a discussion of real versus perceived danger would be appropriate somewhere. Not by me though, I've been down that road before.
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Old July 18, 2009, 10:45 AM   #24
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The direction the thread is taking reminds me of an incident I witnessed recently. The wife and I went down to Concord, NH for 4th of July weeked and while done there we witnessed a pair of cars stopped at a traffic light in front of Thirty Pines Market in Penacook on July 3rd.

They initially caught my attention because the second car in line had a license plate along the lines of "S&W-45". Well, the light turned green and the first car wasn't paying attention, so Mr. S&W honked his horn. That got the first car to move, but not before they replied to the horn honk with some angry hand gestures.

At that point Mr. S&W lost it, gunned the gas and pulled onto the wrong side of the road to pass the first car in the intersection. We gave them plenty of room and watched them stop further up the road and get out of their vehicles like they were going to fight. Thankfully they seemed to decide against it. However, we stayed too far back to see what caused the change of heart.

Anyhow, the whole ridiculous situation could have been avoided if people had been willing to turn the other cheek. Instead the participants decided to escalate things almost to the point of physical confrontation. Mr. S&W's angry display of stupidity put not only himself at risk, but also the lives of people in the oncoming lane (and thanks to his poor choice in vanity plates probably helped to give responsible firearms owners a bad name).
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Old July 18, 2009, 10:56 AM   #25
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Anyhow, the whole ridiculous situation could have been avoided if people had been willing to turn the other cheek. Instead the participants decided to escalate things almost to the point of physical confrontation. Mr. S&W's angry display of stupidity put not only himself at risk, but also the lives of people in the oncoming lane (and thanks to his poor choice in vanity plates probably helped to give responsible firearms owners a bad name).
Exactly. You seriously can't wait 3 seconds for someone to notice a light turned green? You seriously can't ignore a car horn and not respond with inappropriate gestures? You seriously cannot ignore "the bird" and go one with your life? You can't ignore (or just call the cops) when someone passes you like an idiot? You're really going to pull over and get out of your car to fight with someone? (All this, remember, is because of a 3 second delay at a stop light!?)

How many chances does someone need to do the right thing? The answer is that they need unlimited chances, because doing the right thing is not even a consideration in their minds. They are responding with alpha dog stupidity instead of conscious thought. Somehow, someway, they think that it puts them higher on the food chain if they can dominate someone, even someone they've never seen before and will never see again. Truth is, the only food chain they're higher on is the one in their own minds.

This sort of behavior is a big part of why we're at where we're at today. Even so, it is in itself a symptom and not a cause.
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