ignition with pryodex ffg and #11 caps?

trigger45 · July 13, 2009, 10:33 AM

yesterday sevral misfires with this combo. no problem in my knight wolverine. should i go to the fffg equivlant? oh the other rifle was a t/c new englander .50 cal. bullets where t/c maxi-balls. like this bullet in this rifle. just want better ignition so the accuracy will show.

was using 90 grains in the new englander. was using t7 but went to pryodex because of the crud ring. the t7 was fffg. and when i cleaned between shots no problems came up. this time i also cleaned between fireings. is pryodex harder to ignite? should i get musket caps and nipples?

Pahoo · July 13, 2009, 10:54 AM

Lots of questions here but by my measure, you should not have had any problems with your current shot string. I don't feel your Misfires were with the ignition of the Pyrodex. You stated "Misfires" and I usually do not run into them untill well after getting Hang-Fires.

I know lots of folks that swear by FFFG up to and and including .50 Cal. In fact, in some publications, it even states such.

#11 Primers/Caps are at the minimum of ignition potential. This is one good reason that it is not recommended for Replacement Propellants. Those of us who can use them with 777 should consider ourselves fortunate.

In my In-Line Hunters, I have converted to a Musket primers and have worked up some good Shot Strings for them. The 209 certainly is the other end of the spectrum on ignition but personally have not had a desire to go thar.

Be Safe !!!!

Hawg Haggen · July 13, 2009, 04:38 PM

I have no problems with Pyrodex RS and #11 standard caps in rifles or revolvers either one.

Mark whiz · July 13, 2009, 09:38 PM

I've never had a problem with any powder and #11 caps in my old knight USAK or Rem1858 revolver. However, I DO use the CCI #11 Mag caps whenever possible - the Mags have a good bit more compound in them than the standard CCIs...........always seemed like good insurance to me, and it's never failed me yet.

arcticap · July 14, 2009, 02:35 AM

Quote:

is pryodex harder to ignite? should i get musket caps and nipples?

Switching to musket caps is usually a last resort.
Pyrodex P can ignite a little better than the RS, especially if the flash channel is blocked in any way or not thoroughly clean.
A upgraded replacement nipple can also help.

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...set=ISO-8859-1

http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/te...set=ISO-8859-1

The more powder that's loaded, the more powder residue that will be left behind. Sometimes a breechplug scraper will help clean up the powder chamber located at the very bottom of the barrel. I don't know what the diameter of the TC powder chamber is, .25 - .30 caliber maybe?
It may need to be more throughly cleaned out.

trigger45 · August 26, 2009, 09:26 PM

thanks for that last reply. didnt even think about the chamber area. when i got home i wrapped a spit patch around my bore brush and pulled out so much black stuff you were right. thanks.

Smokin_Gun · August 26, 2009, 10:38 PM

Get yourself and Uncle Mike's, Spitfire, or Hotshot nipple that may solve your problem, or try gettin' some real Black Powder.
Good Luck...

rocklock · August 27, 2009, 12:44 AM

If you aren't doing this,try it. A breech scraper will still leave the channel between the breech and the nipple fouled when used just by itself.
When you clean, remove the barrel from the stock, put the nipple end into a pan of warm soapy water. Put a tight fitting wet cleaning patch on your cleaning jag and pump it up an down the bore. It will pull water in and out, flushing out the breech. Take the nipple off and flush some more, and then dry thoroughly. Some folks use straight alcohol for this as a final rinse since it flashes off quicker than water. I had a hunting buddy that was always having hangfires or misfires even right after he thought he had cleaned his gun completely. After he started flushing the barrel and breech out, he had no more problems. A regular #11 cap should work reliably then. Magnum #11 primers are good if you want more fire to make certain, but it is easier for me to handle the larger musket caps with my big fingers - I like the extra insurance of a hot cap when hunting in bad weather. I know some people think it affects accuracy to much, which is somewhat right for target shooting, but it still leaves plenty enough good accuracy for hunting. I used Pyrodex for years, but switched to the holy black for everything 5 years ago when I built a flintlock.

trigger45 · October 15, 2009, 10:20 AM

it works just fine now. went off like the day i bought it.

arcticap · October 15, 2009, 12:46 PM

"It takes a licking and just keeps on ticking!"

July 13, 2009, 04:38 PM	#3
Hawg Haggen Senior Member Join Date: September 8, 2007 Location: Mississippi Posts: 10,225	I have no problems with Pyrodex RS and #11 standard caps in rifles or revolvers either one. __________________ http://blackpowdertimes.com/index.php

July 13, 2009, 09:38 PM	#4
Mark whiz Senior Member Join Date: May 19, 2004 Location: Wabash, IN Posts: 227	I've never had a problem with any powder and #11 caps in my old knight USAK or Rem1858 revolver. However, I DO use the CCI #11 Mag caps whenever possible - the Mags have a good bit more compound in them than the standard CCIs...........always seemed like good insurance to me, and it's never failed me yet. __________________ "Every moving thing that liveth, I give unto you as meat" (Gen 9:3) Aim small.........miss small. Trust God..........but keep your powder dry!

August 26, 2009, 09:26 PM	#6
trigger45 Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 1999 Location: TEXAS,USA Posts: 252	thanks for that last reply. didnt even think about the chamber area. when i got home i wrapped a spit patch around my bore brush and pulled out so much black stuff you were right. thanks. __________________ 5.56x45, .243win, 6.5x55SE, 6.8 spc, .270 win, 9x19mm,.45acp, .410, .50bp, 12ga. I would like to see a modern 7x57and 8x57 in my safe.

August 26, 2009, 10:38 PM	#7
Smokin_Gun Senior Member Join Date: December 4, 2005 Location: Mojave Desert, CA Posts: 1,195	Get yourself and Uncle Mike's, Spitfire, or Hotshot nipple that may solve your problem, or try gettin' some real Black Powder. Good Luck... __________________ "I Smoke Black Powder" "Favor an 1858 Remington" SGT. Smokin' Gun, Mosby's Rangers 43rd Virginia Cavalry C.S.A. SASS# 19634, ... Admin:http://blackpowdersmoke.com/oldcoots/index.php

October 15, 2009, 10:20 AM	#9
trigger45 Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 1999 Location: TEXAS,USA Posts: 252	it works just fine now. went off like the day i bought it. __________________ 5.56x45, .243win, 6.5x55SE, 6.8 spc, .270 win, 9x19mm,.45acp, .410, .50bp, 12ga. I would like to see a modern 7x57and 8x57 in my safe.

July 13, 2009, 10:33 AM	#1
trigger45 Senior Member Join Date: October 8, 1999 Location: TEXAS,USA Posts: 252	ignition with pryodex ffg and #11 caps? yesterday sevral misfires with this combo. no problem in my knight wolverine. should i go to the fffg equivlant? oh the other rifle was a t/c new englander .50 cal. bullets where t/c maxi-balls. like this bullet in this rifle. just want better ignition so the accuracy will show. was using 90 grains in the new englander. was using t7 but went to pryodex because of the crud ring. the t7 was fffg. and when i cleaned between shots no problems came up. this time i also cleaned between fireings. is pryodex harder to ignite? should i get musket caps and nipples? __________________ 5.56x45, .243win, 6.5x55SE, 6.8 spc, .270 win, 9x19mm,.45acp, .410, .50bp, 12ga. I would like to see a modern 7x57and 8x57 in my safe.

July 13, 2009, 10:54 AM	#2
Pahoo Senior Member Join Date: February 16, 2006 Location: IOWA Posts: 4,384	Lots of questions here but by my measure, you should not have had any problems with your current shot string. I don't feel your Misfires were with the ignition of the Pyrodex. You stated "Misfires" and I usually do not run into them untill well after getting Hang-Fires. I know lots of folks that swear by FFFG up to and and including .50 Cal. In fact, in some publications, it even states such. #11 Primers/Caps are at the minimum of ignition potential. This is one good reason that it is not recommended for Replacement Propellants. Those of us who can use them with 777 should consider ourselves fortunate. In my In-Line Hunters, I have converted to a Musket primers and have worked up some good Shot Strings for them. The 209 certainly is the other end of the spectrum on ignition but personally have not had a desire to go thar. Be Safe !!!!

August 27, 2009, 12:44 AM	#8
rocklock Junior Member Join Date: August 20, 2009 Location: NW Colorado Posts: 4	If you aren't doing this,try it. A breech scraper will still leave the channel between the breech and the nipple fouled when used just by itself. When you clean, remove the barrel from the stock, put the nipple end into a pan of warm soapy water. Put a tight fitting wet cleaning patch on your cleaning jag and pump it up an down the bore. It will pull water in and out, flushing out the breech. Take the nipple off and flush some more, and then dry thoroughly. Some folks use straight alcohol for this as a final rinse since it flashes off quicker than water. I had a hunting buddy that was always having hangfires or misfires even right after he thought he had cleaned his gun completely. After he started flushing the barrel and breech out, he had no more problems. A regular #11 cap should work reliably then. Magnum #11 primers are good if you want more fire to make certain, but it is easier for me to handle the larger musket caps with my big fingers - I like the extra insurance of a hot cap when hunting in bad weather. I know some people think it affects accuracy to much, which is somewhat right for target shooting, but it still leaves plenty enough good accuracy for hunting. I used Pyrodex for years, but switched to the holy black for everything 5 years ago when I built a flintlock.

October 15, 2009, 12:46 PM	#10
arcticap Senior Member Join Date: March 16, 2005 Location: Central Connecticut Posts: 2,961	"It takes a licking and just keeps on ticking!"