The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Handguns: The Revolver Forum

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 28, 2009, 02:59 PM   #1
45 Luger Owner
Junior Member
 
Join Date: August 26, 2009
Posts: 11
Self Defense Load for S & W Model 10

From my earlier post, sounds like its serial number places it in the late sixties time frame, so, from what I know, +P loads are out. Anyone have any ideas about a good commercial .38 special self defense load for this gun? I'm not sure, for example, whether a hollow point load is the way to go if I'm dealing with older-style low pressure ammo.

I would like to know:
1. the best commercial load regardless of price--I will buy a few boxes of these. I would want this for use in intruder-type situations indoors. If you think there is a better load for outdoors, at longer distances and without as much concern for over-penetration, please let me know.

2. The best AFFORDABLE general self-defense load. I will be buying this in bulk. I would want it to cover all self-defense type situations, indoors and outdoors. I am in California by the way. Unless it is a bad idea (i.e. there is a different load that I should use), I will probably also use this ammo at the range.

By the way, if there is any reason that either of these loads won't work for my other revolver--a 1927 colt snubby--please let me know.
45 Luger Owner is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 03:07 PM   #2
brian45auto
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 19, 2009
Location: eastern pa
Posts: 499
think you might have the descri mixed on your numbers.
__________________
it's only metal, we can out think it.....
brian45auto is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 03:33 PM   #3
KyJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 7,716
Quote:
From my earlier post, sounds like its serial number places it in the late sixties time frame, so, from what I know, +P loads are out.
This is incorrect. It is perfectly safe to fire +P loads from a SW Model 10 made in the 60s. SW specifically states in their owner's manual that +P ammo is okay for any steel framed revolver with the model number inside the yoke. This corresponds to a metallurgical advance which occurred in 1957.

Now, what you might want to do is mostly shoot standard pressure loads for target and plinking. Over many years and many thousands of rounds of use, it may make a difference. It definitely has less recoil than +P loads but +P loads aren't bad at all in a Model 10. Shoot the +P loads occasionally for practice and load them for defense.

The Model 10s of that era were regulated for 158 grain loads; i.e., they will hit point of aim with the 158 gr. bullets. The "FBI load" was a +P 158 gr. lead semi-wadcutter hollow point. Remington, Winchester, Georgia Arms and others make them. For practice use any 158 gr standard pressure rounds you can find and even 148 grain wadcutters.
__________________
Jim's Rules of Carry: 1. Any gun is better than no gun. 2. A gun that is reliable is better than a gun that is not. 3. A hole in the right place is better than a hole in the wrong place. 4. A bigger hole is a better hole.
KyJim is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 03:37 PM   #4
CWPinSC
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2009
Posts: 863
Hornady makes their "Critical Defense" ammo that looks good. Speer Gold Dot "Short Barrel" is good, too. My preference is Corbon DPX. It's a light bullet (115 gr.), +p round that is designed to penetrate.

Good practice ammo is WC or SWC, if you can find them. Check Georgia Arms online.

I coulda sworn the Model 10 was rated for +p...
CWPinSC is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 04:09 PM   #5
45 Luger Owner
Junior Member
 
Join Date: August 26, 2009
Posts: 11
I see. I guess if +P is okay, then the same considerations should go into my choice as if I were choosing a 9mm or .40 S&W load.

I used to be much more informed about guns & ammo, but have been away from guns since I was in school. I remember hearing a lot of good stuff about gold dot loads. Also, hydra shock JHPs always seemed to be a reliable load... any thoughts on using a hydra shock .38 special +P 158 grain JHP?
45 Luger Owner is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 04:41 PM   #6
ligonierbill
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 20, 2007
Posts: 777
In the latest Speer reloading manual, they don't include a load above 135 grain in a JHP, and that one is their special wide mouth bullet designed specifically for the popular .38 snubbies. They also list a +P for the SWC HP, as noted by KyJim, with a note that many experts still consider this the best defense load.
ligonierbill is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 06:19 PM   #7
45 Luger Owner
Junior Member
 
Join Date: August 26, 2009
Posts: 11
To be clear, my model 10 is NOT a snub nose ... it has a 3 1/4 inch barrel. The snubby I referred to was a colt ... Ideally I would use the same loads in both but forget about the snubby, since I highly doubt a 1927 gun will take +P loads.

It sounds like many of these recs are for snub nosed revolver, such as the short barrel gold dot. I want loads for a 3 1/4'' barrel Model 10.

The hydra shock load looks to be a 129 grain bullet, so I mispoke above when I asked about a 158 grain hydra shock. Also, looking at the Gold Dot site, I wonder if the Gold Dot Speer Personal Protection JHP might be the right gold dot load, since my model 10 is not a snubby (but if the short barrel is better regardless of barrel length, please let me know).

Last edited by 45 Luger Owner; August 28, 2009 at 06:30 PM.
45 Luger Owner is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 06:24 PM   #8
45 Luger Owner
Junior Member
 
Join Date: August 26, 2009
Posts: 11
Also, I may be misunderstanding, but it doesn't seem like I'm getting recs re: a specific self defense commercial load that can be had at a cheap price (so that I can buy in bulk). That is, if you wanted to buy thousands of rounds of commercial self defense loads (NOT just loads for the range) for a good price, what would you go with?
45 Luger Owner is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 06:42 PM   #9
Elvishead
Junior member
 
Join Date: August 8, 2007
Location: Las vegas, NV
Posts: 3,397
Your M10 could be called a short barrel, and the Short barrel GDHP 135g +p would be a very good choice.

I load them in my Ruger SP101, that the barrel is just a little shorter than your gun, they work just fine. I shoot them in my 5" barrel revolvers too.

If you lived in Vegas, I could set you up with a box.
Elvishead is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 08:01 PM   #10
Deaf Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2000
Location: Texican!
Posts: 3,264
Buffalo Bore 158gr LSWHPs is the way to go. From a 2 inch M64, my chrono showed 1000 fps!!! From a 2.75 inch Speed Six the chrono said 1100 fps.

Now from a 4 inch I'd think it would be close to 1200 fps, and that's .357 magnum level.

And the empties just dropped right out of the chambers of my 64. No pressure signs at all.
__________________
"The government has confiscated all of our rights and is selling them back to us in the form of permits."
Deaf Smith is offline  
Old August 28, 2009, 09:24 PM   #11
KyJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 7,716
Quote:
but it doesn't seem like I'm getting recs re: a specific self defense commercial load that can be had at a cheap price (so that I can buy in bulk). That is, if you wanted to buy thousands of rounds of commercial self defense loads (NOT just loads for the range) for a good price, what would you go with?
I mentioned Georgia Arms. Check their prices, though I understand there is a delay.
__________________
Jim's Rules of Carry: 1. Any gun is better than no gun. 2. A gun that is reliable is better than a gun that is not. 3. A hole in the right place is better than a hole in the wrong place. 4. A bigger hole is a better hole.
KyJim is offline  
Old August 29, 2009, 07:44 AM   #12
wnycollector
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2007
Posts: 1,833
+ 1 on KyJims post!.

Georgia arms 158gr LHP +P is a great bulk purchase for .38 SD ammo...as long as its not for snubs! Stephen Camp did a nice write up about this loading.
wnycollector is offline  
Old August 29, 2009, 10:52 AM   #13
CWPinSC
Junior member
 
Join Date: July 1, 2009
Posts: 863
Quote:
a specific self defense commercial load that can be had at a cheap price (so that I can buy in bulk).
What quantities do you call "bulk"? 1,000? 2,000?

Don't skimp pennies on your SD ammo. Use what works in your gun and what has been proven, either by real-life or ballistic testing, to be reliable and effective. You won't be practicing all the time with your SD ammo. When I go to the range (usually bi-weekly), I'll put a couple of boxes of practice stuff through my carry piece, then shoot a couple of mags of the "good stuff". Don't worry, you won't forget how the SD ammo feels and shoots if you use it occasionally.

If you still intend on shooting 1,000s of rounds of your SD ammo, you might want to consider reloading. It's easy to find out what bullet your favorite ammo uses. Powder weight is easy, too - just pull a bullet and weigh the load. The powder type used may be a little harder to find, but I'll bet the specs are out there in WWW Land somewhere.
CWPinSC is offline  
Old August 29, 2009, 08:49 PM   #14
roaddog28
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2009
Location: Fallbrook, CA
Posts: 894
Like some of the other posts. +P ammo is ok in a model 10 after 1957. Model 10s before 1957 were M&P 38 specials and Smith and Wesson states not to use a +P ammo in any K frame revolver made before 1957. As far as ammo. Use 158g ball for practice. American Eagle and Magtech are excellent practice rounds. For defense. The FBI load is the proven manstopper. Buffalo Bore, Winchester, Federal and Remington all make the FBI load. This is the most accurate round for the model 10. Even if your revolver is 3 1/2 the FBI load will shoot almost dead on. Usually the only inaccurately is the shooter. I know this because I have a model 10 and the only time I miss the black or X ring is from human error.

You have the finest 38 revolver ever built. The combat masterpiece (model 10 with adjustable sites) is the only revolver that will match the model 10.

Enjoy!
roaddog28 is offline  
Old August 30, 2009, 03:32 PM   #15
AmmoSphere
Junior member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2009
Posts: 27
Something with hollow point that can penetrate wall, denim, and glass easily. Winchester has a few products that can do all three well. Do a little research and see what works best for you.
AmmoSphere is offline  
Old August 30, 2009, 05:15 PM   #16
45_Shooter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2008
Location: Metro Detroit
Posts: 1,050
I second ElvisHead; the Speer Short Barrel 135 grain +P was made for revolvers like yours. I run it in my 2" snub S&W and like it.
__________________
"You have the rest of your life to solve your problems. How long you live depends on how well you do it."
-Clint Smith
45_Shooter is offline  
Old August 30, 2009, 06:17 PM   #17
skoro
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 30, 2008
Location: Texas
Posts: 1,779
Self Defense Load for S & W Model 10

Quote:
The best AFFORDABLE general self-defense load.
I think it's the time-tested FBI load - 158gr lead semiwadcutter hollow point +P. It's what I keep in both of my home defense handguns. Even though they're 357 magnums, I think the FBI load is just about optimal for most situations.

The Buffalo Bore rounds cited in an earler post are probably the best on the market, but they're expensive.

I stick with Remington Express (preferred) or Federal. They're much less costly, if a little less capable.
skoro is offline  
Old August 30, 2009, 08:17 PM   #18
KyJim
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 26, 2005
Location: The Bluegrass
Posts: 7,716
I've said this before, but the Model 10s of that era were all regulated for 158 grain bullets and lighter weight bullets will shoot low. That's because the barrel is recoiling when you shoot. A lighter bullet will travel through the barrel and exit faster than a heavier bullet. That means the barrel hasn't recoiled as much yet when the lighter bullet exits and the trajectory is lower.

I'll give you an example. I went to the range today and shot a SW Model 27 using 158 grain loads in both .38 spl and .357 magnum. They were pretty close to dead-on at 10 yards. When I ran some 110 grain .357 magnums, I was probably 2 and 1/2 inches low. So, if you want to shot accurately in a Model 10, use 158 gr. bullets or learn to use some Kentucky windage.
__________________
Jim's Rules of Carry: 1. Any gun is better than no gun. 2. A gun that is reliable is better than a gun that is not. 3. A hole in the right place is better than a hole in the wrong place. 4. A bigger hole is a better hole.
KyJim is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:46 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.10672 seconds with 9 queries