Warning on Lee Dies

[808Chaney]

I'm starting to get together my reloading gear and on my Lee dies, I noticed a warning. It states: DO NOT use reloads in Glock or similar guns with chambers that do not fully support the cartridge due to the intrusion of the feed ramp.

I don't own a Glock. Currently my only firearm is my Sig Pro Model 2022 in .40 S&W. Can anybody tell me am I OK to use reloads in this gun?

Thanks in advance,

Chaney

[flycaster]

It's fine. Reloads are just fine in Glocks, too, just not ones pushing the top end of the pressure scale. Some calibers, like 9mm and .40S&W, are intrinsically higher pressure, and more care is needed with those. Others, like .45acp, are lower than those two, and allow more leeway. Stay within published specs, and you should be fine.

Chuck

[Crosshair]

It's an issue with casehead support. Glocks tend to have oversized chambers and generous feed ramps that expose part of the case. To be fair, many autoloaders have some of the casehead exposed, but the Glocks are more than most.

Reloading then overworks the brass and weakens it. Especialy if it is from an oversized chamber.



The factory barrel is on the right. Aftermarket on the left. The reason it is such a "problem" with the 40 S&W is because it operates at about 35,000 PSI, similar to the much smaller 9mm, but with a much larger surface area of unsupported chamber. The 9mm case walls are also twice as thick.

It's not much of an issue in the 45 ACP because the 45 ACP is a rather low pressure round.

The design of the Glock disconector allows it to fire while out of battery as well. I have observed this in plenty of used Glocks. Combined with the issue of casehad support, it is no wonder why the 40 S&W Glocks seem to have a higher than average incidence of catastrophic failure. It also could be because of their popularity, but the badly designed Glock disconnector, casehead support, and thinner case walls contribute to the problem.

[bcarver]

I have seen several manuals that tell you not to use reloads but that is the litigation thing.

[Shoney]

People also swap out their Glock factory barrels for various brands of aftermarket barrels so they can shoot lead. That voids the Glock warantee as well.

You can shoot lead in Glock barrels, you just have to use hard cast, use medium loads, and check and/or clean the CHAMBER and the bore more often.

[Dannyl]

Hi,
I bought my first 0.40 S&W in 92, it is a S&W 4006.
in 96 I also bought a glock 22 in 40 S&W.

I have been reloading for them with Lee dies ( and so are at least 5 friends of mine) without ever having a single problem.

IMO, Regardless of the gun make and bullets used, proper gun maintenance which means cleaning up each time after you shoot, and using the right stuff to keep your bore free of lead or copper ( depending on what bullets you use) goes a long way towards ensuring reliable and safe operation of firearms.

Regards,
Danny

[NWPilgrim]

I have shot thousands of reloads through my Glock using both factory and replacement barrels. All lead bullets. After shooting a hundred rounds of reloads through one and then the other barrel I compared them. I could not see any difference in leading in the factory compared to the replacement.

I CLEAN THE BARRELS AND CHAMBERS WELL AFTER EACH SHOOTING SESSION. As I do for all my other guns.

[wingman]

I CLEAN THE BARRELS AND CHAMBERS WELL AFTER EACH SHOOTING SESSION. As I do for all my other guns.

Bingo, that plus correct loading technique will make for fun filled years of shooting.

[wncchester]

"Warning on Lee Dies "

I think you worded that incorrectly. The warning is on reloading for (some) Glocks. It's not about Lee dies at all.

To the best of my knowledge, only a few Glocks have a chamber that doesn't fully support the cases.

[snuffy]

It's a CYA society we live in. Cover Your A**! The lawyers insist on warnings like that for almost everything we do nowadays. All reloading supply companies say the same thing, to CYA for some fool that thinks if a little powder is good, more is better! Heck, there's room left in the case, it must be there for a reason!?¿

To repeat the above observations, I've loaded for a M-22 glock for 5 years, lately with those dreaded lead boolits. No problemo as long as you don't go to max loads!

[Jim243]

Crosshair

Are you sure your glock barrel and chamber is a 45 ACP and not a 45 GAP?

[Crosshair]

Are you sure your glock barrel and chamber is a 45 ACP and not a 45 GAP?

Those aren't my photos. I linked them from a thread I have bookmarked from another forum where people were discussing the issue of chamber support in Glocks. That just happened to be the best photo in the bunch.

[HeroHog]

Sorry but that looks like a very bad design! That AND it can fire out of battery?!?!? OK, I used to think Glocks were OK, just not my thing, now, I wouldn't have one!

[snuffy]

That AND it can fire out of battery?!?!?

Don't believe it! That's just an internet myth. To fire out of battery would mean the barrel is unlocked from the slide. My M-22 will still release the FP while the slide is SLIGHTLY moved to the rear. IT IS NOT UNLOCKED! As soon as the barrel moves down to unlock from the slide, the disconnector works and the FP will no longer fall.

The same goes for my SA 1911 45. The slide can move to the rear, and the hammer will still fall. BUT in the case of the 1911 45, the slide has to be all the way forward for the hammer to reach the firing pin. If it is not, the hammer will have to seat the slide AND still have enough punch to hit the FP hard enough to fire the primer, not gonna happen!

[deadcoyote]

It's a CYA society we live in. Cover Your A**! The lawyers insist on warnings like that for almost everything we do nowadays. All reloading supply companies say the same thing, to CYA for some fool that thinks if a little powder is good, more is better! Heck, there's room left in the case, it must be there for a reason!?¿

Diaper Diplomacy!!

[HeroHog]

OK, still not happy with all the exposed brass...

[kiwi56]

I had one experience of a Lee Die in 45ACP I had probably sized a few hundred cases with it and yes I had purchased the die new, it had never been dropped or abused by me but the carbide insert in the sizing die cracked and dislodged completely ruining the case I was resizing. I replaced it with a full set of Rcbs dies and now use those.

[arkieron]

Can anyone help me with a proper load for a 9mm 124 gr cast bullet using Win 231 powder? I have just got my lee turret press set up. I am using an auto dsk powder dispenser. I couldn't find that size cast bullet listed in the Lee chart. The .34 disk was listed with 115 gr. New and Dumb.

[NWPilgrim]

Data for 124 gr lead bullet using WW231:

From Lee manual, 2nd Edition
OAL = 1.095"
start: 3.3 gr, .31cc, .30 auto disk, .3 scoop, 910fps
max: 4.0 gr, 1035 fps

Lyman #49 (for 120 gr lead RN so seat a tad longer for 124)
OAL = 1.065"
Start: 3.1 gr, 1010 fps
Max: 4.0 gr, 1148 fps

[arkieron]

Thanks for the info!

[Crosshair]

Don't believe it! That's just an internet myth. To fire out of battery would mean the barrel is unlocked from the slide.

False. A Gun that is in battery has the barrel locked to the slide and is all the way forward. Glocks WILL fire with the slide set back. This compromises the timing of the gun, meaning the barrel/slide will unlock early and in a high pressure situation.

My only striker fired handgun, a Hi-Point C9 of all things, will not drop the firing pin when it is even 1/16" out of battery. I have come across several Glocks in used gun cases that will and will do so past 1/8".

My hammer fired guns will drop the hammer in such a situation, but the hammer will not contact the firing pin and/or it will drive the slide all the way foreward and retain enough energy to fire the round.

[orionengnr]

Crosshair--
Great pictures, and the statement "a picture is worth a thousand words" has never been truer.

PS--after reading your firing-out-of-battery post, I just pulled my Kahr P45 out of the IWB on my hip, unloaded it, triple-checked it unloaded, then performed your test. It appears that the Kahr will not fire out of battery.

I also removed the barrel and dropped a cartridge into the chamber. It exhibits none of the exposed cartridge case that your pics show.

I like this pistol more all the time.

[Archie]

I do recall seeing a firearms users manual saying, "Go ahead and shoot reloads in this firearm." Most explicitly say something like: "Use only factory fresh ammunition in the proper caliber for this firearm".

To put perspective on this, match books say "Close Cover Before Striking" and Q-tips say not to put the q-tip in your ear canal.

I must be a real adventurer.