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Old June 30, 2009, 10:21 PM   #26
MLeake
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Practice your DA trigger pull

For typical distances inside the house, there's generally no need for SA on a DA revolver. Even at the range, I generally don't use SA inside 15 yards. On my LCR, there is no SA option, regardless of distance.

DA isn't hard, if you put in plenty of dry fire practice.

DA also radically reduces the odds of a nervous flinch causing the weapon to discharge.
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Old June 30, 2009, 11:08 PM   #27
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Simple really, my revolver is DAO


I haven't put as much thought into this as I probably should, but my first line of defense I think would be stationing myself in the hallway to my bedroom with my shotgun. I have a very small place, from my bedroom door I can see the living room and kitchen, and hear anything in the apartment to get an idea of how many there are.

First person stepping into the hallway gets a chest full of buckshot. The hall only leads to my room and the bathroom, and I have better visibility from the doorway (as well as somewhere to retreat) than I do in my bedroom.

I don't think it would be wise to try and clear my apartment, it's small but has several blind corners, to the right, and being right handed that leaves my body leading the gun around the corner. Defensive sentry position, and wait, IMO.
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Old July 1, 2009, 12:17 AM   #28
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For me, the question is irrelevant, since I never place my trigger finger inside the trigger guard until I'm definitely going to pull it.
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Old July 1, 2009, 12:33 AM   #29
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If you've got a revolver I'd say go DA. For my uncle nextdoor who has a SA .45LC as his only HD gun I'd say go ahead and cock it.

Shooting wise I practice shooting offhand, unsighted, double taps on targets the size of a human head and coke cans at about 15yds. My HD gun is (for now) an AK so my steps are 1) raise rifle to shoulder while simultaneously taking a slight forward lean 2) look down the bbl over or past the sights (I feel that using the sights will take too long) 3) squeeze 2x.

All of this happens in about .5 to .75 seconds (estimate).
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Old July 1, 2009, 12:33 AM   #30
Frank Ettin
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As others have said --

[1] Don't go to investigate. It's a good way to get ambushed or flanked. And if there's more than one you can really be in trouble. The guy you're looking for has a huge tactical advantage. Because you are looking for him, he can wait and choose the manner of your meeting.

[2] Don't cock a double action revolver. If you're going to use a double action revolver, learn to shoot it accurately double action.
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Old July 1, 2009, 12:47 AM   #31
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I over exaggerated a simple question in my original post,but what I simply want to know is,if I see a BG in my house,do I cock the hammer or not before I point it at him and say "don't move"????
No, you do not "cock" the hammer on your revolver. This is just an accident waiting to happen.

If you know you have intruders in the home you do not go "investigate". You hole up in the room you are in behind cover and call 911. To do anything else is foolish at best. If you have to marshall other family members in to the safe room, then that changes the scenario a bit, but you still don't go looking for the intruder. You are only going to rescue an innocent, and bring them to safety.

Please, please, please get some training before you hurt yourself or an innocent. I'm not knocking you, as we were all beginners once, and I learn something new everyday, but having been in more than one armed encounter I can tell by your question that you need some good quality training.

Take care and stay safe.

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Old July 1, 2009, 01:37 AM   #32
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First, after you turn off the alarm, and call 911........

....and wolfs come in packs.
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Old July 1, 2009, 02:06 AM   #33
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So, are all the "don't go investigate" people deaf, or do they just ignore noises a lot?

I'd be calling the cops twice a night to come see if the baby tossed something out of her crib. How long do you think it would be before my calls dropped below lunch on the priority list?
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Old July 1, 2009, 07:10 AM   #34
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So, are all the "don't go investigate" people deaf, or do they just ignore noises a lot? I'd be calling the cops twice a night to come see if the baby tossed something out of her crib.
Listen.

Does the sound recur? If no, go back to sleep. If yes, keep listening.

Can you identify the source? If yes and it is a normal sound (icemaker, dog scratching, wind rattling something, etc.), go back to sleep, or if necessary, attend to the issue If no, keep listening.

Does it sound like the noise might well be caused by someone in the house who should not be there? If yes, dial 911, have someone stay on the line, arm yourself, get family members to safety, and wait.

Do not shoot at anyone you cannot see.

Most of the "don't go investigate" people either have received advice from experts or from people who have taken professional self defense training, or have taken the training themselves, and understand the risk of being ambushed.

Taking a defensive position is far safer, and makes it easier to defend against two people who might otherwise fire from different directions. Additionally, the homeowner must, if he does encounter someone, verify that the someone is not a family member or friend before firing. The necessity of doing so creates another tactical disadvantage, as a violent criminal in the house will dispense with that step.
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Old July 1, 2009, 08:29 AM   #35
Frank Ettin
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It's better not to go investigating "bumps in the night" if you think there actually may be a BG there.

[1] You arm yourself. You investigate as best you can from a place of safety in house with your family. You wait and quietly listen. Does the sound repeat? Can you begin to identify it? Can you positively identify it as something innocuous? If the sound is clearly from outside, you look out nearby windows.

[2] If you can't identify the sound and believe there is a danger, you assure that your family and any known visitors are all together and with you in a place of safety. You call the police. You maintain telephone contact with the police. And you wait.

[3] You do not go anywhere to investigate, because --

(a) If you go looking, and there is indeed a BG there, you will be at an extreme tactical disadvantage. You can easily be ambushed or flanked. You may also have given a BG access to family members to use as hostages. Or there maybe more than one BG, one of whom can get to your family while you're occupied with the other one.

(b) When (whether you called them or they were called by a neighbor who may have also seen or heard something) the police respond, they don't know who you are. You are just someone with a weapon.

Massad Ayoob tells a story about the National Tactical Invitational, an annual competition in which some 130 of the top shooters and firearm trainers participate by invitation only. One of the events is a force-on-force exercise using simunitions in which the competitor must clear a house against a single "BG." According to Mas during the first six years of the NTI, one, and only one, competitor got through one of those six NTIs without being judged killed, and he was head of NASA security firearms training at the time. And one, and only one, made it through the seventh year. The tactical advantage of the ensconced adversary is just too great. And remember, these competitors were highly skilled, highly trained fighters.
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Old July 1, 2009, 09:19 AM   #36
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In answering the OP's original question... I personally would not cock the pistol. In point of fact all of my SD guns are DA/SA guns and I train a lot with them decocked/DA mode.

As for clearing a house, well we all have had to investigate sounds before. My house has a seasonal issue with possums crawling around and if I called the cops every time I heard something "scritching" around the back door or window, or "testing" the doorknob to the porch, well I'd feel like a complete idiot.

BUT

Clearing/checking a house is an extremely dangerous proposition and you should have some kind of general plan in place and rehearsed LONG before you ever try it (even for possums).

The best is having a spouse or significant other ready with the phone in case it all goes bad. You delay and they call. (oh and have a code word that means "everything is really okay". My wife knows if I just say "oh it's okay honey" she should dial 911 immediately 'cause someone might have a gun to my head but if I mention fruit we're in the clear)

Finally, the same rant I post over and over because I think it's really important advice.
Quote:
Whenever a scenario like this one comes up I feel compelled to mention that this is also one of those classic scenarios where you MUST remember that the perp may not be alone.
Even if you are able to deal with the obvious threat it is critically important to remain alert and aware of your entire surroundings in case the bad guy has backup present (just outside, in a car, or even in another part of the restaurant/club/stop n shop, etc. That's why it's so important to avoid acting too fast. You must assess the ENTIRE situation as much as possible before taking action and you MUST assume that the criminal has partners.
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Old July 1, 2009, 01:31 PM   #37
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Quote:
Um... neither?
First of all I would not "go investigate" Why would you? You hear a noice and believe it is possible one or more criminals have entered your house.

Quote:
Turn off the NYPD Blue reruns, put down the remote, and back slowly away. In all seriousness, please consider investing in some quality training from a reputable instructor.
This is the dumbest thing i've ever heard.My daughter sleeps on the other side of the house as us and she is only 2 years old.I WILL NOT allow some lowlife to break into my house without doing something about it!
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Old July 1, 2009, 04:02 PM   #38
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If someone is in my house late at night and my dogs didnt go off on em well they must be friendly so no I wouldnt cock the weapon as I would not have one in my hand.

Years ago when I was 15, I came home and found the window open, mom and dad was on vacation leaving me home alone for the first time. Did I go in? Heck no, I went next door called 911 let the cops go in and clear the house while I waited outside. A couple small items were found by the back door, no people found so were they in there when I went and called 911? Would hate to find out the hard way and get shot again, well that would have been the first time.........
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Old July 1, 2009, 04:06 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatoth
...My daughter sleeps on the other side of the house as us and she is only 2 years old.I WILL NOT allow some lowlife to break into my house without doing something about it...
I understand completely, and you certainly have a good reason to go out investigating. BUT --

Having a real need to go looking doesn't change the reality that going looking substantially increases the likelihood that you will lose. The guy you're looking for has a tremendous tactical advantage and will be in an excellent position to ambush you. And things will really get bad for you if he has a friend. That is real life, even if you absolutely have to go and rescue your daughter. Now your losing won't do your daughter one bit of good, will it?

So what to do?

Maybe your really need to take a hard look at whether or not there's a better way to set up sleeping arrangements. Houses aren't necessarily laid out in the most tactically sound way, but there may be some options. And, especially if there's no better way to assign bedrooms, maybe you ought to give serious thought to getting some very solid, professonal training. If you have no choice but to put yourself in a very dangerous position, good training will increase your chances of survival.
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Old July 1, 2009, 05:10 PM   #40
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Hmmmm speaking from experience...here's my thoughts on this.

1) Letting the BG know that you have a weapon will kick in an adrenaline rush. This will cause either flight or fight syndrome. Add to that, what if the BG is mentally unstable or high on some substance? They may choose to get into an altercation and the absolute last thing you want to do is to end up having to shoot them. Why provoke the biological response if you don't have to? A basic smash and grab criminal is most likely going to run once they know someone is on to them.

2) Either I've missed it or no one has mentioned this, the best thing to have alongside with you is a very, very bright small flashlight. Why? Because if its the middle of the night, their eyes will be in night vision, hitting them with the light from a powerful flashlight will most likely blind them and buy you precious time to retreat to a more tactical spot, where you can call the police from.
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Old July 1, 2009, 05:12 PM   #41
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This is the dumbest thing i've ever heard.My daughter sleeps on the other side of the house as us and she is only 2 years old.I WILL NOT allow some lowlife to break into my house without doing something about it!
Just quoting this because you highlighted the suggestion of getting training, then proceeded to say this. I second the suggestion of getting training, its probably one of the smartest things one could do.
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Old July 1, 2009, 05:21 PM   #42
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Unless you believe the perp is 25+ yards away from you, you really shouldn't cock the hammer on your DA revolver. SA releases so easily, a bump into a desk or chair may cause you to unintentionally discharge.

There may be instances when you really need to cock the hammer though, I am sure you'll know when that time comes.
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Old July 1, 2009, 05:34 PM   #43
Mello2u
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I use a 1911 "cocked and locked" and a Surefire flashlight. I have done house searches having heard an unexplainable noise dozens of times. Did it last night in fact.

There is no perfect way to do a single person house clearing. You simply can not cover all the angles at the same time by yourself.

However, if I called the police instead, I'd be labeled the guy who cried wolf. Never found anything, just the house expanding and contracting from heat and cold I guess.

As to what would I do if I actually encountered someone in my house? It depends on an infinite number of variables. I'd try to get him to leave and call the police with a description. I would only use deadly force as a last option.
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Old July 1, 2009, 05:45 PM   #44
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I over exaggerated a simple question in my original post,but what I simply want to know is,if I see a BG in my house,do I cock the hammer or not before I point it at him and say "don't move"????
Never, ever say "Don't move". It gives the BG the first opportunity to shoot you, if he/she is armed.
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Old July 1, 2009, 06:58 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatoth
This is the dumbest thing i've ever heard.My daughter sleeps on the other side of the house as us and she is only 2 years old.I WILL NOT allow some lowlife to break into my house without doing something about it!
First of all, if you actually read the response, I made the statement early on that having a child on the other side of the house was the only reason I would clear my house. While an unfortunate position to be in, that doesn't make clearing your house any less dangerous. If anything, it makes it more so, as in that situation you're going to be anxious to get to the child and rush your way through something that can't safely be done quickly. Wandering through your house with a gun and no idea what you're doing is an excellent way to get yourself killed. How much good is that going to do your child?

Now, this-
Quote:
Originally Posted by VHinch
Turn off the NYPD Blue reruns, put down the remote, and back slowly away
was very tongue in cheek and directed downright comical tone of the whole question. You were suggesting that you would cock your revolver and actually say "Don't move", and all that after referring to the guy as a "Perp." You couldn't make that have more a mall ninja tone if you tried.

This suggestion however-
Quote:
Originally Posted by VHinch
please consider investing in some quality training from a reputable instructor
Was very serious. Your experience level is pretty clear, and all anyone is doing is suggesting that if you're going to be in the position of having to do something dangerous and stupid, at least get some training and give yourself a chance of living through it.
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Old July 1, 2009, 08:27 PM   #46
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Was very serious. Your experience level is pretty clear
I am not sure whose experience level you are refering to,but if it is me,I would like to know where you would get that idea,other than a simple post on a revolver specific question asking people how they would handle their revolver in a dangerous encounter
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Old July 1, 2009, 08:43 PM   #47
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Sam,

Your question gave you away. No one who has had professional training would have had to ask it. All the major schools teach to not cock a DA revolver.

It's okay to be a novice. We all were. Just recognize it and change it by getting some training.
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Old July 1, 2009, 08:47 PM   #48
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Do you this, do you that? A lot of "do you's" in the thread.
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Old July 1, 2009, 08:54 PM   #49
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I think you answered yourself. These two questions, particularly the bolded italicized sections, indicate minimal training/experience with the type of situation we're discussing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatoth
Let's say you hear a noise in the middle of the night somewhere in your house,so you get your revolver and go investigate,and you encounter a guy trying to steal your television,what then?Do you cock your gun or not?Do you cock the hammer back being prepared for making the first shot count if you do indeed feel the need to fire,or do you leave it uncocked,preparing to emty your gun without the first shot being lighter and throwing off your timing or also being cautious to not accidentally shoot him if he does indeed surrender?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ninjatoth
if I see a BG in my house,do I cock the hammer or not before I point it at him and say "don't move"????
There is nothing wrong with needing training and experience. We all started there. All anyone is suggesting is that based on your situation i.e., having no choice but to get across your house to get to a child, is that you get some training and do it more safely. One of the first things you'll do in such a training session is a Simunitions run, and it's quite eye opening.

House clearing is not easy, and it is not safe, especially when done alone. Quite frankly, it's difficult and extremely dangerous even when done in a 2 man team who is well trained to do it.
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Old July 1, 2009, 08:55 PM   #50
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Well, if he's inside of MY house he's about to have a really bad day. Somebody once called in about some shots in my neighborhood. A number of local police officers just happen to know where I live. The comment was actually made, over the police radio net, that I wouldn't be calling the police to do anything except to help pick up the dead bodies. I know that they didn't say that in a bad way. The officers just "have confidence" in my shooting abilities and prior military history. It's sort of like having a combat veteran Navy SEAL living next door. There are certain things you can "automatically expect to happen" if trouble approaches his residence.
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