The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Hide > The Art of the Rifle: General

View Poll Results: The Rifle on My Back:
.223 32 17.68%
7.62x39 23 12.71%
.308 88 48.62%
Other less popular caliber 38 20.99%
Voters: 181. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 29, 2009, 09:20 PM   #51
fisherman66
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 22, 2005
Location: Rhome, TX
Posts: 4,641
Just one on my back, huh?

I'll take a 12 gauge (even though I consider myself a rifle aficionado) and a few different kinds of loads.
__________________
la plus belle des ruses du diable est de vous persuader qu'il n'existe pas!
fisherman66 is offline  
Old June 30, 2009, 12:33 AM   #52
Blackops_2
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 20, 2008
Location: Mississippi
Posts: 2,586
Accidently clicked 7.62x39 ment .308 or 6.5 grendel.
Blackops_2 is offline  
Old June 30, 2009, 01:06 AM   #53
Tikirocker
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 11, 2007
Location: NSW, Australia
Posts: 915
Danthaman,

I'll address your comments not as a criticism of your own choices - these may be perfect for your own environment - but rather to highlight where your assertions don't apply to mine.

Quote:
This has yet to be stated, hunting small game is ideal for food because if oyu take down a moose and have less than 10 people to feed, the meat will rot.
Maybe in your part of the world - where I live, the most commonly encountered game will be Kangaroo and Wallaby, this type of game is not so big that it is unmanageable but is not small enough that you I would want a smaller cal than .303. Professional Roo hunters going back 100 years have used the .303 as standard Aussie bush cal and it does a superb job of dropping a jumper.

Realistically, if I am in a survival situation I don't want to risk a light cal on a food source and scare away my one chance at a meal because I didn't drop it first time. A .303 or .308 will drop a big Roo and not destroy the animal - like the Aborigines for 50,000 years before you toss the entire Roo on a fire and you've got your cooked food supply for days to come. If you know what you are doing and work fast you can strip Roo meat with a good knife and hang it out to make jerk ...

In the Aussie bush I'm not looking for small game in the daylight hours ... and I'm rarely coming across it as most of it is nocturnal. For that job I would be setting falling traps of stick and stone while I sleep. I can still keep my .303 cal gun for day and hunt at night without any great expenditure of energy by use of traps. This is called working smart.


Quote:
The .308 will literally destroy any small game you shoot.
That's why I'm not using it for small game ...


Quote:
However, if the hide or bones of big game is needed, the kill can easily be accomplished with a .223 placed right behind the shoulder or in the head. As many veterans will testify, shot placement is faaar more important than power.
Nothing wrong with .223 but I'd rather have the extra oomph of .303/.308 to cut down on possible errors on my part where food is a survival issue. I could miss badly with a .303 round but still do enough damage with a miss to put my dinner down and not have to chase it into the bush. When you are surviving you want to cut down on any activity that wastes energy and maximize your chances of eating. I don't trust the .223 to buck the bush I'd be shooting through, or make up for my mistakes if my shot isn't perfect. In survival I'm not trying to shoot the tightest groups or show off what a great target shooter I am ... I just want dinner come hell or high water.


Quote:
Any rifle in .308 will typically be heavier than one in .223,
In most cases that may be correct ... not in the case of the No5 Mk1 Jungle Carbine I chose for the job. The weight of the No5 Mk1 is 3.2kg or 7bl's 1oz ... that is very light indeed and allows me to carry plenty more .303 on me.


Quote:
... and one can carry far more .223 ammo than .308 without compromising thier stamina by carrying tons of .308 in a survival situation.
I have hiked 500 miles on foot over the French Pyrenees Mountains and across Northern Spain ( On the Camino Santiago ) with a 20kg pack, 100 rounds of .303 would not cause me any great deal of fatigue I assure you. .223 ammo is not that much lighter than a .303 or .308 round, the difference is negligible.

What works for you is not necessarily what works for others ...

Tiki.
__________________
The Lee Enfield forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/viewforum.php?f=27
Surplus Rifle Forums - http://www.surplusrifleforum.com/index.php

Last edited by Tikirocker; June 30, 2009 at 07:05 AM.
Tikirocker is offline  
Old June 30, 2009, 06:18 AM   #54
stubbicatt
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 15, 2007
Posts: 1,065
Quote:
Why is it the old members that make assumptions and try to start the arguing? ... says Smartwhois
Hey...!

I'm old! (Whippersnapper!)

Quote:
This has yet to be stated, hunting small game is ideal for food because if oyu (sic) take down a moose and have less than 10 people to feed, the meat will rot. The .308 will literally destroy any small game you shoot. However, if the hide or bones of big game is needed, the kill can easily be accomplished with a .223 placed right behind the shoulder or in the head. As many veterans will testify, shot placement is faaar more important than power.... says DanThaMan
Why can't I put a headshot on the small game with the 308 just as you would on larger game with the 223? Would that quell your concerns about destroying the small game? Granted, a good hit on a 3" target with a 308 would be more difficult than on a 8" target with a 223...

B'sides, one of the variables which hasn't been interjected in the discussion is choice of bullets. Bullet choice might have somewhat of an equalizing effect in this discussion. There are "explosive" varmint bullets, FMJ bullets, monolithic solids, soft point expanding bullets... surely one could select the proper bullet for this exercise? Use a FMJ on headshots on small game, and the proper bullet choice for other situations which present themselves.

I wouldn't feel defenseless with the 223, but where it shines (IMO) is in automatic rifles because it doesn't tend to deflect the muzzle due to accumulated recoil. But I can't legally have an automatic rifle, so for my purposes, and the purposes of the OC's question, the 308 in perhaps a SLR would be a better choice.
stubbicatt is offline  
Old June 30, 2009, 08:50 PM   #55
smartwhois
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 2, 2009
Posts: 52
I meant old in post count, not in life.

smartwhois is offline  
Old June 30, 2009, 09:10 PM   #56
pvt.Long
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 7, 2009
Posts: 433
With my own experince in hand ill take a m14 and a 1903 for the long tuch if its needed
pvt.Long is offline  
Old June 30, 2009, 09:13 PM   #57
only1najeep
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 21, 2008
Location: MS
Posts: 157
I said .223 because that is what I own, When I'm able to buy an M1A it will become .308
__________________
Better to be tried by 12, than carried by 6.
NRA basic rifle instructor
NRA basic shotgun instructor
NRA range safety officer
only1najeep is offline  
Old June 30, 2009, 09:31 PM   #58
Fat White Boy
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 18, 2005
Posts: 1,276
I use 3 rifles- A Remington 700vls in .308 and a Winchester Model 70 in .270 for big game. For varmints, I use a Browning Model 1885 in .22-250.
Fat White Boy is offline  
Old June 30, 2009, 11:25 PM   #59
Ignition Override
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 18, 2008
Posts: 1,773
Although a novice with all of this, my recently-acquired LE Jungle Carbine (in .303) would be my choice. To put this in context, I've never yet hunted or been all that far from civilization, and so my preference and views are worth nothing.

But the combination of the Jungle Carbine's light weight/portability and its power really appeal to me.
This occurred to me even before seeing the superb photo posted by experienced (LE etc) shooter, Mr. Tikirocker. He would be my LE guru and it's a shame for some of us that he does not live over here in the Mid-south. Gun store staff here seldom if ever see any Lee-Enfield.

Asking them about such rifles and surplus ammo on the phone surprises them, as if they were asked whether they speak Russian.
Ignition Override is offline  
Old July 1, 2009, 01:02 PM   #60
smartwhois
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 2, 2009
Posts: 52
Fat White Boy, the question is, what if you only had one, what would you choose?
smartwhois is offline  
Old July 1, 2009, 01:20 PM   #61
wyobohunter
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 21, 2008
Location: Back in Wyoming
Posts: 1,125
small game big gun FYI

I once popped the head off of a stupid chicken (Spruce Grouse) with my .338 RUM at ≈ 30 yds and damaged zero meat. Of course that isn't the norm for me but... It was a slow day bear hunting. Anyhow, like an earlier poster said, if you carry a medium - large bore rifle and you're really hungry, aint no reason you can't take small game.


Although I chose my 30-06 Springfield (Tika Lite Stainless/Leupold Ultra light scope) because it's light and I'm accurate with it beyond 300 yds;

my Marlin 1895 GS 45-70 Government is a close second because it is so durn handy+lightweight and is good to 200 yds with a little less precision of course (ghost ring sights).

I would also consider a battle rifle in carbine form... LE, M1A etc. so long as it were 30 cal.

Finally, as an earlier poster said, a 12 gauge with several kinds of ammo would really be my top choice, but this is a rifle thread so... 30-06 Springfield it is.

Last edited by wyobohunter; July 1, 2009 at 01:29 PM.
wyobohunter is offline  
Old July 1, 2009, 01:23 PM   #62
XpatBubba
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2009
Location: Roatan, Honduras
Posts: 114
I am still not clear on the original question. Hunting gun? Or all around, pick one defense/hunting/SHTF gun?
Am am sure answer could be better with a more clearly stated question.
XpatBubba is offline  
Old July 1, 2009, 04:27 PM   #63
LordofWar
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2009
Location: Pakistan
Posts: 646
7.62x51mm NATO to be precise.
In a HK G3A4.
LordofWar is offline  
Old July 1, 2009, 06:27 PM   #64
mp25ds4
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 6, 2009
Posts: 392
I, like Tikirocker
would have to say .303 british over the 7.62x51
1st of all the rifle on my back would be an enfield wether it was a .303 or a newer .308 enfield. If you look at the rounds side by side you can tell why, yes the .303 is slightly smaller but it packs more gunpowder because its 5MMs longer. They're both good calibers and i would use either in battle as long as they were coming out of an enfield or m14 barrel
__________________
Liberal Newscaster Katie Couric, while interviewing a Marine sniper, asked:
'What do you feel.....when you shoot a Terrorist?'
The Marine shrugged and replied, "A Slight Recoil."
mp25ds4 is offline  
Old July 1, 2009, 07:10 PM   #65
Tucker 1371
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 29, 2008
Location: East TN
Posts: 1,989
Well if finding and affording ammo was not an issue, then the 6.8 or 6.5 Grendel in a piston AR (or after/if it's out and proven itself maybe the Masada/ACR). If there are no feeding issues with it (thought I heard about some once) then I think the Grendel is probably the better of the two. Recoil is significantly less than .308 but it retains its energy just as far if not further and it outperforms 5.56 terminally with a slight tradeoff in recoil and ammo weight. I would think (don't know for sure) it would be able to handle game on up to deer and probably a little larger.

Since rifle was specified I didn't say 12ga, but a Mossy 500 pump 20" would be my go to if I had to pick just one. You have a plethora of options for ammo types so it's task adaptable with just a quick change of ammo and within it's range a 12ga can drop nearly any creature on the planet (nearly, elephant, cape buffalo? ... idk).
__________________
NCO of Marines, 3rd Award Expert Rifle, 236 KD Range
D Co, 4th CEB, Engineers UP!! OEF 21JUN-20SEP2011
REV. 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Last edited by Tucker 1371; July 1, 2009 at 07:16 PM.
Tucker 1371 is offline  
Old July 2, 2009, 08:15 PM   #66
The Canuck
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 13, 2006
Location: Calgary Alberta, Canada
Posts: 307
Well, 5.56N to be more precise. The simple reason being that if something happened, you wouldn't be able to swing a dead cat and not hit a crate of the stuff.
__________________
"If you put one in the snot locker, it doesn't matter what calibre it is".
The Canuck is offline  
Old July 4, 2009, 10:11 AM   #67
BoneDigger
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 22, 2005
Location: Tyler, TX
Posts: 660
Other

Other... 30-30.

Todd
BoneDigger is offline  
Old July 4, 2009, 11:02 AM   #68
Sarge
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 12, 2002
Location: MO
Posts: 4,911
Great pic, Tiki. Ol Smelly was the first 'high powered' rifle with which I became acquainted as a kid and I still have a soft spot for them. In later years, I worked with an old gent who had been stationed along the Burma Road. Ray's accounts of the 'Weekend R&R Tiger Hunts', held by GI's and Brits, surprised me when he added that the .303 was the preferred rifle for those forays.

I'm with Art; I'd like to know where I'm going to be roughing it with a rifle on my back. Short of warding off giant maneaters or 600 yard rifle duels, I'd probably take my Ruger 580 Ranch Rifle in .223 Remington. It's proven to be 'minute of soda can' to 200 yards and it's fed everything I've thrown at it.
__________________
I'm inclined to think if a man hasn't gotten his point across in 4912 attempts, 4913 probably isn't going to do it.
Sarge is offline  
Old July 4, 2009, 11:08 AM   #69
moosemike
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 4, 2009
Location: Lebanon PA
Posts: 370




.303 for my son. .30-06 for me.
__________________
et cognoscetis veritatem et veritas liberabit vos
moosemike is offline  
Old July 4, 2009, 05:39 PM   #70
Composer_1777
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 30, 2009
Location: New Orleans, La
Posts: 242
308 because in a true survival scenario you won't have the luxury to buy ammo, basicaly do more with less, kill bigger game for more meat that you can use for bartering.

Also 308 you can carry less shells so i don't think wieght would be a factor; IMO humans adjust really quick a 10lbs 308 rifle would be like nothing after a few weeks of constant carry.

Definitely a Combat Knife or other such knives would be more useful.

After a while we'd prolly ditch our guns and use convential methods like throwing spears, slings and traps.

Assuming its an End of the modern world scenario.
Composer_1777 is offline  
Old July 4, 2009, 06:24 PM   #71
jpwilly
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 5, 2007
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 539
I'd have to go with 22lr
__________________
"Rats & roaches live by competition under the laws of supply and demand; it is the privilege of human beings to live under the laws of justice & mercy." - Wendell Berry
jpwilly is offline  
Old July 4, 2009, 09:39 PM   #72
Citizen Carrier
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 10, 2008
Location: Columbus, OH
Posts: 671
For surivival situation, I'd probably go with my Ruger Frontier model "scout" Model 77 Mk II in .308 Winchester with intermediate eye-relief scope.

It is lightweight, short and handy. Rifles are carried more than they are shot. The rifle is quick to the shoulder and will be pretty close to ideal once I put a ching sling and a timney trigger on it.

I have a goodly supply of BTHP 168 grain Remington match ammo for it, followed by smaller amounts of older government match ammo, and South African surplus ball.

Second choice would be my Miltech-reconditioned M1903 Springfield with a Tanner Saddlery M1907 leather sling and bayonet. I have about 1000 rounds or so of 30-06 ball and close to 400 rounds of black tip AP.

I don't think I would go with one of my semi-autos. Too dependent on spare parts and lubrication. Bolt-actions for sure.
__________________
Once you've got your sights adjusted to the ammunition you have, step away from the bench. In competition or the field...there are no benches.
Citizen Carrier is offline  
Reply

Tags
.223 , .308 , 5.56x45 , 7.62x39 , 7.62x51

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:06 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12478 seconds with 8 queries