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Old July 2, 2009, 04:46 PM   #76
johnwilliamson062
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20 guys wth melee weapons approaching fast from 100 yards verbally declaring an intent to do me serious bodily harm and I have a G17 with four mags and one in the pipe mags?
I take a stance and wait until they close to 50 yards, then I start taking abdomen shots at whoever is in front. Misses should hit someone else and the middle should be thinned soon. Those not too excited by the idea will slow, as will those with shots in the torso. Should be able to get myself to a place where I can out run them b4 they close. I can take quick shots at anyone following me.

Or are these zombies?
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Old July 2, 2009, 04:47 PM   #77
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20 guys wth melee weapons approaching fast from 100 yards verbally declaring an intent to do me serious bodily harm and I have a G17 with four mags and one in the pipe mags?
I take a stance and wait until they close to 50 yards, then I start taking abdomen shots at whoever is in front. Misses should hit someone else and the middle should be thinned soon.
Not seeing how you would be justified in using deadly force when at fifty yards you are not in any danger.
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Old July 2, 2009, 05:04 PM   #78
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Not seeing how you would be justified in using deadly force when at fifty yards you are not in any danger.
Waiting until they're on top of you would probably be a bad idea. Especially considering it's an angry mob and you'd have to hit a few before the rest got the idea.
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Old July 2, 2009, 05:14 PM   #79
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20 guys wth melee weapons approaching fast from 100 yards verbally declaring an intent to do me serious bodily harm and I have a G17 with four mags and one in the pipe mags?
Oh cut it out, John! That's no fair. If you're going to arrange the tactics of the mob in yer favor, you should line 'em up in single file and shoot the last ones first so the lead "turkeys" don't see their friends droppin'.
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Old July 2, 2009, 07:04 PM   #80
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Waiting until they're on top of you would probably be a bad idea. Especially considering it's an angry mob and you'd have to hit a few before the rest got the idea.
I am betting that you would still have serious trouble convincing a jury that you were justified even if they approached with fifty FEET of you...
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Old July 2, 2009, 07:34 PM   #81
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Im still young enough to run very fast so that would be my first option, but If I could not run it would be warning shots and 50 yards and kill shots at 20 yards. +1 on pepper spray too. I have seen some larger cans of the pepper gel that shoot out to 30 yards. The anarchist's cookbook and the poor mans james bond have all kinds of recipes for dealing with this exact situation. And as for how I would justify myself. . . In either case I would rather be alive and in legal trouble than just plain dead.
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Old July 2, 2009, 07:45 PM   #82
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I am betting that you would still have serious trouble convincing a jury that you were justified even if they approached with fifty FEET of you...
I would never fire out of malice, but if I thought my life was truly in danger, even at 50 yrds, I'd have no qualm about opening fire.
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Old July 2, 2009, 07:55 PM   #83
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I would never fire out of malice, but if I thought my life was truly in danger, even at 50 yrds, I'd have no qualm about opening fire.
You still haven't told us how you would convince a jury that your life was in immediate danger from a crowd armed with melee weapons that was fifty feet, let alone fifty yards, away. Dont forget...you said that you would open fire at FIFTY YARDS. I certainly would have qualms about opening fire.
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Old July 2, 2009, 07:58 PM   #84
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I am betting that you would still have serious trouble convincing a jury that you were justified even if they approached with fifty FEET of you...


A jury will be the last thing on my mind.
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Old July 2, 2009, 07:59 PM   #85
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You still haven't told us how you would convince a jury that your life was in immediate danger from a crowd armed with melee weapons that was fifty feet, let alone fifty yards, away. Dont forget...you said that you would open fire at FIFTY YARDS. I certainly would have qualms about opening fire.
A jury will be the last thing on my mind.
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Old July 2, 2009, 08:01 PM   #86
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A jury will be the last thing on my mind.
But they will be the foremost in your mind afterward...and for a very very long time.
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Old July 2, 2009, 09:37 PM   #87
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Assuming getting away is not an option and you have to stand your ground. Fire a warning shot in the air make damn sure they know you are not shooting at them. If that don't work do it again and again until you are out of ammo. Dispose of all your ammo before they can take the gun from you. I don't think a court would justify you killing an entire mob in self defense.
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Old July 3, 2009, 01:13 AM   #88
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I know some of you guys are joking with your response, but some of you are not. I posted this before but obviously it bears repeating.

To all the people who suggest using your weapon against this threat, if this so-called "angry mob" is an organized gang, shooting any one of them is an instant death sentence for you. It doesn't even have to be the leader. Once you shoot one of them, you have tipped the scale and they WILL inflict their brand of justice on the person(s) who created the inequity. They have the manpower, the money, weaponry and most importantly, the motivation to carry out this mission to its logical conclusion. They will not rest until the scales are once again in balance and this can only be accomplished by killing YOU!

Go ahead and shoot if you want, but it will be the LAST thing you ever do!

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Old July 3, 2009, 01:47 AM   #89
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When they're at 500 yards I start shooting at them with my 308 target rifle. Once at 150 yards I go for the AR15... once at 30 yards I empty the AR15 magazine then fire at them with the S&W 1911. Any who survive that I simply have Chuck Norris roundhouse kick.

All kidding aside I would avoid contact and drive away if possible. I'd be outnumbered and possibly outgunned by an unknown force with unknown firepower, skill, and motivation. If it came down to it and I had to engage, I'd try to find a point of cover and open fire with the AR.
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Old July 3, 2009, 05:30 AM   #90
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Old July 3, 2009, 07:41 AM   #91
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But they will be the foremost in your mind afterward...and for a very very long time.
Maybe so, but if the SHTF I won't be giving the possibility a single second of forethought.
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Old July 3, 2009, 08:27 AM   #92
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I won't be giving the possibility a single second of forethought.
So what kind of thought process did you use to make the decision that you would begin shooting when they approach within 50 yards??
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Old July 3, 2009, 09:03 AM   #93
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Well, I live about as far outside the city limits as I can be without being in the next county so this is not a situation I will ever likely face.

Honestly, your CCW isn't going to do you much good if seeing one of their buddies go down doesn't deter them, not that you shouldn't try it. Now I honestly never expect to encounter this situation but I do have a rifle and/or shotgun in my truck with me 99% of the time for no real reason in particular. If I could get to my truck I would probably just hightail it outa there. Now if for some reason I can get to my truck but can't get away (it has 300k+ miles on it so that's entirely possible) I guess I am left with no choice but to engage them. Ideally I would want to be able to retreat to a place where they could only enter one at a time or where their advance would be slowed (somewhere with one of those fold up bars across the entrance or maybe a parking lot full of cars). If not then be in a position where you can run and open fire.

I know [stuff] happens but why would you be out and about if there was rioting in your neck of the woods? Stay inside, it's much easier to defend yourself (both physically and in court) from there.
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Old July 3, 2009, 10:21 AM   #94
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So what kind of thought process did you use to make the decision that you would begin shooting when they approach within 50 yards??
If I determine to my satisfaction that this mob poses an immediate threat to my safety I'll first decide if retreat is possible. If not, my next decision is where to place my shots. A judge and jury will be a complete afterthought.
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Old July 3, 2009, 10:25 AM   #95
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So you don't actually stand by your statement that you would begin shooting at fifty yards? Which means that your "fifty yards" line of demarcation was arbitrary and simply bluff and bluster.
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Old July 3, 2009, 10:34 AM   #96
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So you don't actually stand by your statement that you would begin shooting at fifty yards? Which means that your "fifty yards" line of demarcation was arbitrary and simply bluff and bluster.
Well, 50yrds. is an arbitrary number. I don't know exactly when my survival instinct will require me to act, but 50yrds seems as good an estimate as any seeing I have no practical experience in this situation and likely never will. "bluff and bluster" I do not.
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Old July 3, 2009, 01:08 PM   #97
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What if the mob was carrying explicit signs saying:

Death to Creature and/or Microgunner


and the leaders with megaphones were saying - There is he is - Charge!!

Fleeing in terror seems the best option. Interestingly - some research on mob attacks indicate that the victim - even if armed freezes up and gets hurt by the mob. The mob leaders get some emotional dominance over them. See Violence - by Collins.

There are several incidents were armed officers don't defend themselves with lethal force although justified.
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Old July 3, 2009, 04:19 PM   #98
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What if the mob was carrying explicit signs saying:

Death to Creature and/or Microgunner
What if that mob was carry "Death to Glenn" signs? Once again, fleeing seems to be the best option.
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Old July 3, 2009, 06:45 PM   #99
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Glenn has already fled. The one time I saw I had an angry mob coming my way - not for me, BTW but for someone else - I beamed out of there.
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Old July 3, 2009, 07:44 PM   #100
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I read that the mobs in Somalia were pushed back by the downed aircrews with effective fire from M9 Berettas. Basically spray and prey.

If I was part of an advancing mob, someone spraying a 9mm at me would definately slow me down.
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