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Old June 28, 2009, 08:55 PM   #1
JohnH1963
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How do you defend yourself against an angry mob?

This is one low probability-high risk event that does happen and is not out of the realm of imagination. Examples of these occurrences are the following:

- Security contractors and soldiers getting attacked by angry mobs in Iraq and other parts of the middle east.

- Citizens being attacked during the LA Riots.

- Citizens being attacked by roving gangs during various hurricanes and other natural disasters.

Lets say you find yourself on the street and there is a group of 20 loosely organized males moving your way at a medium to high rate of speed. They are about 300 feet away. Under your shirt is a Glock 17 and you have 3 extra magazines stuffed somewhere on your person. You might be able to outrun them, but some of the group appear to be healthy 18 year old males and seem to be coming fast. Some of them appear to have clubs and pipes. They are yelling and charging in a hostile manner. No one appears to have a firearm.
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Old June 28, 2009, 09:01 PM   #2
Doc Intrepid
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Get in your car and drive away.



When there are more adversaries than you have rounds (sans reloads), the question becomes somewhat academic...
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Old June 28, 2009, 09:46 PM   #3
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Many moons ago, . . . there was a movie that starred some karate guru, . . . and at the end of the movie he is in a living room with a whole room full of bg's wanting his hide and all he has are his hands, feet, and a lever action rifle.

He pops the "leader" right between the eyes (bg had on big ugly white rimmed '70's sun glasses).

He then pointed at the second in command and said something like "You're next".

All of a sudden the "mob" toned down, . . . hero left unscathed, . . . and the movie went on from there.

Moral: I believe that with the mob mentality that is out there today (from what I've seen and heard), . . . the above "plan" may be the only thing that could save your bacon. Anyway, . . . backed into the OP's corner, . . . that is plan "A" in my AO. Ya gotta remember that the biggest number of most mobs are just sheeple that found a leader, . . . sans leader, . . . sans mob, . . . to say nothing that I think most of them will find a good reason to go looking for a way out of Dodge when the .45's start exiting the barrel.

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Old June 28, 2009, 09:53 PM   #4
tpareloader
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When they get in range start shooting. As they drop the rest will wise up. If they don't drop them too.
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Old June 28, 2009, 09:57 PM   #5
robmkivseries70
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Hi Dwight,
Yes, figuring out which ones are the Alpha and Beta males will go a long way towards taking down a mob.Tom Brown gives some good illustration of this behaviour in his Tracker series
Best,
Rob
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Old June 28, 2009, 10:04 PM   #6
Drake Remoray
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I think I would seek cover then go from there
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Old June 28, 2009, 10:06 PM   #7
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Defend against a MOB??

First you shoot the loudest MOB member in the head with two rouds, then the next loudest with two rounds if he is still standing, in short order the rest of them will retreat and be gone. The MOB's are only as good as the loudest (not best) member. Quickly Kill the leaders (Noise) and the rest will leave... Then do a 361 degree check and leave the area....
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Old June 28, 2009, 10:23 PM   #8
B. Lahey
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Box of skunks, potato cannon
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Old June 28, 2009, 10:43 PM   #9
dabigguns357
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duck,bob weave and find hard cover to shoot from,or better yet if at all possible don't get caught in the situation.
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Old June 28, 2009, 10:46 PM   #10
Kyo
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I would seek higher ground and make it obvious I am armed.
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Old June 28, 2009, 10:53 PM   #11
Lost Sheep
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1 mob 1 gun?

Reminds me of the Sergeant who passed the order "Fire at will." A private then asked, "Which one is Will?"

How do you tell who is the leader?

Also, this scenario calls for a lot more information. Let's assess the threat in the few seconds I have.

Am I the target of the mob? (To determine the answer to the 3 essential questions: Is my life or the life of another at risk? Is the threat immediate? Is the means to carry out the threat credible?

The added questions of tactics (retreat/withdrawal or negotiation-are these alternatives available and do they give a higher or lesser likelihood of success?) is also open. Can I seek cover? Is my gun the only defensive tool around? and morals, Is this situation one which, next week, I will still feel justified in killing someone?

One handgun against a mob is slim odds. Going down fighting may sound good on paper (or on screen), but is hardly my first choice. Sam Colt's "equalizer" has its limits. My odds of survival may be better in hiding than in fighting.

Besides, at today's prices of ammunition, I would rather run to the left or right to see if they are coming at me or just in my direction.

Distance is your friend.

Another alternative is to pick up a pipe or a brick and start running in the same direction as the mob and yelling whatever it is they are yelling.

I don't have enough intelligence to figure out a good answer to this question.

(Take which meaning of the word "intelligence" in either way you think applies to me. Intelligence: information about a situation which allows conclusions to be drawn or capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding,)

Lost Sheep
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Old June 29, 2009, 02:05 AM   #12
Re4mer
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OP, that is probably a situation where you should try to get away at all costs. If your cornered then you will obviously try and fight back but with that many coming at you at once you will probably be overtaken eventually.
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Old June 29, 2009, 02:31 AM   #13
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Daniel-san best block no be there
What are you doing out on the street in such a situation?

Good grief Jim I'm a neurosurgeon, not a god
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Old June 29, 2009, 06:05 AM   #14
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Pick up a club yourself and join in. Do that Sgt York "follow me" wave and blend in.
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Old June 29, 2009, 06:11 AM   #15
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If you shoot someone who is a member of an organized gang on their turf, you are pretty much screwed! With them, its all about retribution. They take this "An eye for an eye" thing very seriously and very literally and I am sure they will not rest until you are dead.

And I have to ask too, what are you doing out in that situation in the first place?

As far as bring in Iraq as a contractor... As Superchicken used to say, "You knew the job was dangerous what you took it!"

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Old June 29, 2009, 06:45 AM   #16
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Rex Applegate published a book on crowd and riot control probably 50 years ago. Find a copy and see what he had to say, though it goes without saying that it was written from a police standpoint and not from a personal safety standpoint. But Elmer Keith mentioned the subject. His solution was his ever-present .44.

Regarding security contractors in Iraq, I think they are part of the problem, rather than part of the solution. We could form battalions of mercernaries or a form of foreign legion instead, to have troops under military discipline, but that isn't the American way.
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Old June 29, 2009, 09:11 AM   #17
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Quote:
Get in your car and drive away.
Engage
Evade
Escape

For a mob, I like the last 2 options the best.

In all seriousness, the best defense is to not be there...where "there" is the location of the mob.
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Old June 29, 2009, 09:43 AM   #18
stephen426
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These are vastly different scenarios here.

For soldiers and security contractors, they are in a war zone and can fire back indiscriminantly if they do not back down. That is war and anyone who engages you is the enemy.

This is very different from the LA riots where you are dealing with civil unrest. Just because a mob is moving in your direction does not give you a right to start "mowing them down". Not even the police would do this unless they were fired upon. How do you know you are the target? Now if I was some of the drivers that got attacked, I would defend myself with lethal force if they tried to drag me out of my car and beat me up. First of all, I would avoid areas of civil unrest at all costs. The only reason I would go is if I had to pick up a loved to to remove them from the area of unrest. I would go with several people who would all be heavily armed. Anyone that approaches in a hostile manner will be starring down multiple barrels. Any agression will be met with gun fire. If I was caught in the riot unexpectedly, I would use my car as a weapon if needed. I would lay on the horn and plow through anyone that was intent on harming me. Always drive with your doors locked!

As for looters after a hurricane, I went through some of that after Hurricane Andrew. People were breaking into a mall and carrying stuff off. Are you going to shoot people indiscriminately over property (probably damaged anyways) or are you going to let insurance cover it? What if you owned a convenience store or grocery store? Could you really open fire on people just trying to get food and water for their families? Most people will say that those people should have been better prepared. What if they didn't have the money to stock up? Many people are at the subsistance level. Are you just going to mow them down? Not me. Now if they are forming gangs and roaming my neighborhood, I will blockade the street (maybe the whole gated community) with my neighbors and limit access to residents only. Visitors would need approval from the resident before being allowed in. If a mob approached, they would be warned to turn back. If they continued to approach, a warning shot might be fired. If they continued still, shots might start firing until they turned away.
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Old June 29, 2009, 10:06 AM   #19
PT111
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I always liked the story about the Sheriff standing there with the double barrel holding off the lynch mob. Someone yells "He only has two shots with that gun". The Sheriff replies back, "Are you volunteering to take one of those two shots?" and the mob backs off. As long as the mod thinks you won't shoot you are in trouble but when you shoot one the rest have a tendency to disburse or at least the vast majority of sane ones.
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Old June 29, 2009, 10:09 AM   #20
Brian Pfleuger
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I make pizzas faster. The only angry mob I'm going to see is when I'm 10 minutes behind on New Years Eve.
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Old June 29, 2009, 10:10 AM   #21
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ninja training and focus
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Old June 29, 2009, 10:21 AM   #22
goodspeed(TPF)
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failfailfailfailfailffailfailfailfailfailfailfailfailfailfailfailfail

This thread is all sorts of FAIL.



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Old June 29, 2009, 10:21 AM   #23
kayakersteve
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one degree - Makes all the diffrence

Steviewonder:
Quote:
Then do a 361 degree check and leave the area
What does that additional one degree give you tactically???
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Old June 29, 2009, 10:27 AM   #24
Big Ugly Tall Texan
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Get away if you can. Failing that...

The situation you described is pretty much no-win. If you can, slip away while they are still fairly distant. Just because some are coming hard and fast doesn't mean they are coming hard and fast FOR YOU.

If you can't get away, keep the Glock concealed and try to be an non-threatening as you can until a threat is aimed directly at you.

If some guy yells something like "Get the big white boy with the bald head, no teeth and a stupid expression", then I would produce the pistol and if he didn't back down IMMEDIATELY, I would shoot him between the eyes, while still trying to find a way out.

Whatever you do, don't start with spray and pray. I would only shoot those who showed themselves to be an immediate threat to me. Like I said, you know why the mob is angry. It may have nothing at all to do with you.
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Old June 29, 2009, 10:55 AM   #25
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Announce in a loud clear voice that " I am HIV positive, and am starting to show the symptoms of AIDS. If any of my blood gets on anyone, they are doomed to a slow painful death".
Then, slowly walk through the middle of the crowd and leave the area.
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