The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 26, 2009, 01:17 PM   #1
maestro pistolero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 16, 2007
Posts: 2,092
NRA ILA ALERT- Nevada discontinuing CCW reciprocity with Utah and Florida

Due to be effective July 1st 2009. Boy, not much notice. I wonder if Ensign's weakened political position has enabled this to happen.

http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=5001

I wonder how long has this been in works, and who is responsible for these changes? I live in Nevada and I'm pretty active here. Perhaps I could make some calls. Sometimes these things can be headed off early. Once implemented, and allowed to stand for a while it becomes much more difficult. LET'S MAKE SOME NOISE!

It doesn't matter to me personally as I have a NV and Utah permit. I just hate to see ground lost on reciprocity.

If anyone needs to get Utah or Nevada CCW certification in the meantime, I can highly recommend Charles (Chuck) Bolding - NV and Utah certified LE and firearms instructor in the Las Vegas area. email: tapsccw@hotmail.com and phone 702-278-2914
maestro pistolero is offline  
Old June 26, 2009, 01:23 PM   #2
csmsss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Orange, TX
Posts: 2,986
Ensign was a senator. CCL reciprocity is a state, not federal issue. How would his current problems have anything to do with this?
csmsss is offline  
Old June 26, 2009, 01:28 PM   #3
maestro pistolero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 16, 2007
Posts: 2,092
He is still a Senator last time I checked. He only resigned from a leadership position. He is very pro-gun, is well liked, and he has (had) a lot of juice in the State. NV in many ways is like a small town. He could pick up the phone be very influential regardless of whether discussing a State or Federal issue.
maestro pistolero is offline  
Old June 26, 2009, 01:35 PM   #4
vranasaurus
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 16, 2008
Posts: 1,175
Did those states drop reciprocity with Nevada?

It could be a since you won't recognze our permits we won't recognize yours thing.
vranasaurus is offline  
Old June 26, 2009, 02:01 PM   #5
maestro pistolero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 16, 2007
Posts: 2,092
Quote:
It could be a since you won't recognze our permits we won't recognize yours thing.
Fortunately, most states don't seem to play that way, especially Utah and Florida. NV seems to be following previously established policy, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.
maestro pistolero is offline  
Old June 26, 2009, 02:39 PM   #6
csmsss
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 24, 2008
Location: Orange, TX
Posts: 2,986
Quote:
He is still a Senator last time I checked. He only resigned from a leadership position. He is very pro-gun, is well liked, and he has (had) a lot of juice in the State. NV in many ways is like a small town. He could pick up the phone be very influential regardless of whether discussing a State or Federal issue.
Regardless, he is a senator, NOT a state legislator, Attorney General, nor Governor of Nevada. He has no authority in such matters and whatever has happened, is not his responsibility.
csmsss is offline  
Old June 26, 2009, 03:03 PM   #7
JustDreadful
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2008
Location: Sin City
Posts: 270
He has no authority, but he most certainly did have influence. He'll have it again, if the state Republican party can keep its head.

Utah was dropped because it has no live-fire requirement, which is asinine, since the Nevada shooting qual is buffoonishly easy. I could pass it blindfolded.

Florida was dropped because its permits are good for 7 years, as opposed to 5 for NV. Which makes sense because...

yeah, well... I mean...


:barf:
__________________
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."

"Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge."
JustDreadful is offline  
Old June 26, 2009, 04:02 PM   #8
divemedic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2006
Posts: 1,313
Florida doesn't have a live fire requirement either. Maybe that is it.
__________________
Caveat Emperor
divemedic is offline  
Old June 26, 2009, 09:33 PM   #9
sholling
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 1999
Location: Hemet (middle of nowhere) California
Posts: 4,260
I doubt that this will last. Nevada's convention industry is suffering and they won't want to shoot their tourism industry in the foot.
__________________
Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, California Rifle & Pistol Association, and the Second Amendment Foundation.
Annual Member: Revolutionary War Veterans Association (Project Appleseed) and the Madison Society.
sholling is offline  
Old June 26, 2009, 09:53 PM   #10
ImprobableJoe
Junior member
 
Join Date: June 11, 2009
Posts: 87
Quote:
Which makes sense because...

yeah, well... I mean...
Yeah... I'm not sure how that one works either, and I'm the most liberal, pro-gun control person I've seen on this site.

This, BTW, is the reason for my support for a federally-recognized licence. My FL drivers licence is good in Nevada, so why isn't a FL CCW? I'm much more likely to get into a car accident than I am to shoot anyone!
ImprobableJoe is offline  
Old June 26, 2009, 10:51 PM   #11
JustDreadful
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2008
Location: Sin City
Posts: 270
Quote:
Nevada's convention industry is suffering and they won't want to shoot their tourism industry in the foot.
I very much doubt that this is anywhere on the convention authority's radar. The only show I can think of that this might possibly affect is SHOT. If conventions were a consideration we'd be the easiest state in the country to get a permit for, the AG would be working overtime to get non-resident reciprocity, no one would bother with UT or FL non-res permits anymore...
__________________
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."

"Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge."
JustDreadful is offline  
Old June 26, 2009, 11:43 PM   #12
Al Norris
Staff
 
Join Date: June 29, 2000
Location: Rupert, Idaho
Posts: 9,319
Quote:
Originally Posted by ImprobableJoe
My FL drivers licence is good in Nevada, so why isn't a FL CCW?
Your drivers license is recognized by Nevada, exactly because of reciprocity. The feds have never, ever, been involved with this issue. It is and always has been a States "Rights" issue.
__________________
National listings of the Current 2A Cases.
Al Norris is offline  
Old June 29, 2009, 02:12 AM   #13
JustDreadful
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2008
Location: Sin City
Posts: 270
The way Floridians drive, perhaps we should revisit that issue as well

__________________
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."

"Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge."
JustDreadful is offline  
Old June 29, 2009, 07:11 AM   #14
divemedic
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 12, 2006
Posts: 1,313
Quote:
The way Floridians drive, perhaps we should revisit that issue as well
That is because SE Florida is mostly retired New Yorkers and other assorted yankees.
__________________
Caveat Emperor
divemedic is offline  
Old June 29, 2009, 09:06 AM   #15
jfrey123
Senior Member
 
Join Date: July 7, 2006
Location: Reno, NV.
Posts: 1,026
From a Nevada resident:


This wasn't the act of the legislature or any of our horny and stupid leaders (Senator Ensign and Govenor Gibbons both)...


The ability and responsibility of policy regarding CCW was passed from the legislature to the Department of Public Safety (basically, the branch that runs highway patrol/capitol police). It's their job to keep track and make the rules regarding CCW. They decided to drop UT due to their lack of live fire (and here I though the requirement of a weapon handling course would be similar enough)... FL I'm not so sure about, but if they don't have life fire then they're probably gone (I think I remember hearing a story about a guy passing permit tests with an airsoft gun....?)

The whole deal for Nevada to recognize another state's permit is that the state must have similar criteria for issuing a permit to our own. Hopefully public outcry and threats of lost tourism will sway the DPS to change their mind.



If you or your friends are out of state UT or FL permit holders, I plea with you to visit their website, http://dps.nv.gov, and leave them a message telling them how you are upset with their decision to change the rules. The reciprocity with these states has held for years, no reason to change it now.
__________________
Rock out with your Glock out!
jfrey123 is offline  
Old June 29, 2009, 11:03 AM   #16
maestro pistolero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 16, 2007
Posts: 2,092
I am interested to know if there have been any issues, arrests, etc. whatsoever with licensees from these two states.
maestro pistolero is offline  
Old June 29, 2009, 03:15 PM   #17
sholling
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 18, 1999
Location: Hemet (middle of nowhere) California
Posts: 4,260
Quote:
I very much doubt that this is anywhere on the convention authority's radar.
I don't disagree, but what I said was that with the convention industry hurting that Nevada can't afford to alienate tourists. That's the other part of the economic life blood of Nevada. Having narrowly escaped robbery once in Las Vegas I won't go back unarmed, and being a California resident I rely on my FL and UT non-resident permits. But it's no big deal in an economic down turn. Any excuse to not go there and blow money is a good excuse.
__________________
Proud Life Member: National Rifle Association, California Rifle & Pistol Association, and the Second Amendment Foundation.
Annual Member: Revolutionary War Veterans Association (Project Appleseed) and the Madison Society.
sholling is offline  
Old June 29, 2009, 06:06 PM   #18
maestro pistolero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 16, 2007
Posts: 2,092
Getting a NV permit is not difficult, and it gets you quite a few states with reciprocity. NV dropped two states, but added two.
maestro pistolero is offline  
Old June 30, 2009, 10:49 AM   #19
JustDreadful
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2008
Location: Sin City
Posts: 270
Quote:
Getting a NV permit is not difficult, and it gets you quite a few states with reciprocity. NV dropped two states, but added two.
Yes, but the two states dropped are the two that people get so they can carry in the maximum number of states. That is, the two worst they could possibly have dropped. Most CCW classes in NV (in Vegas, anyway) include or offer UT and FL permit qualification; none that I'm aware of automatically offer any other states.

Quote:
I don't disagree, but what I said was that with the convention industry hurting that Nevada can't afford to alienate tourists.
And what I meant was that, if the convention authority (which takes its marching orders from the casinos) would get behind CCW reciprocity, the state coppers would buckle immediately, the NV Attorney General would craft reciprocity agreements with as many states as possible, as quickly as possible, and the NV non-resident permit would become the standard almost overnight. But I think it would be very difficult to demonstrate that the UT/FL permit issue is important to more than a tiny fraction of regular-Joe tourists. The big money players, of course, will carry guns if they want to and won't be hassled, just like they don't get hassled for hosting hookers-and-coke parties in their suites (and just like VIPs get issued carry permits in places like NYC and the People's Republic of North Kali, where average people who apply get laughed at).
__________________
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."

"Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge."
JustDreadful is offline  
Old June 30, 2009, 10:58 AM   #20
maestro pistolero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 16, 2007
Posts: 2,092
Quote:
Yes, but the two states dropped are the two that people get so they can carry in the maximum number of states. That is, the two worst they could possibly have dropped. Most CCW classes in NV (in Vegas, anyway) include or offer UT and FL permit qualification; none that I'm aware of automatically offer any other states.
But even dropping UT and FLA, reciprocity with all the other states is unaffected. If you have NV and Utah, for example, you still have the same number of states covered, because NV dropped two and added two. If you have FLA, you have lost just one (NV). I don't like it either, but it's not the end of the world. All three of those states offer non-resident permits, BTW.
maestro pistolero is offline  
Old June 30, 2009, 11:13 AM   #21
JustDreadful
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2008
Location: Sin City
Posts: 270
Sure. This means nothing for NV residents. The problem is for non-residents who hold UT or FL permits, some of whom hold such permits specifically so they can carry in NV. Gabe Suarez, for example, has said he'll no longer hold classes in NV because of this (also not in and of itself the end of the world, of course, though I would like to take a Suarez class and would not like to drive Arizona's craptastic two-lane "highway" in order to do so). And how will this affect Vegas' ability to retain SHOT?

And the larger point that this is one more dumbass bureaucratic infringement on the right to carry, which will inconvenience law-abiding people to no purpose. Unless DPS can demonstrate that visitors with UT/FL permits were causing problems, all this amounts to is uselessly hassling people for the sake of hassling people. Alaska and Vermont have the only reasonable CCW systems.

To jfrey123, Florida was dropped because their permit is good for seven years, as opposed to NV's five. Those extra two years will result in slaughter that Pol Pot never dreamed of. Slaughter, I tell you!
__________________
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."

"Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge."

Last edited by JustDreadful; June 30, 2009 at 12:06 PM.
JustDreadful is offline  
Old June 30, 2009, 12:09 PM   #22
maestro pistolero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 16, 2007
Posts: 2,092
It's more of the same crap we have to put up with until the courts sort it out, eventually. At least it is not 'right denied'. There IS a path to carry legally, and it is far from insurmountable for the time being.

I think that national reciprocity will be a natural outgrowth of forced right-to-carry restoration in recalcitrant states. In other words, we get incorporation, we get some type of right to carry in ALL of the individual states, then overcoming the barriers to reciprocity are much more possible.
maestro pistolero is offline  
Old June 30, 2009, 12:15 PM   #23
JustDreadful
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2008
Location: Sin City
Posts: 270
Quote:
to no purpose
On reflection, I shouldn't have said that. The purpose is revenue. I'd bet (I wonder if any of the casinos have prop lines on these kinds of things?) that this is DPS saying "If non-residents want to carry in NV, they can apply for the NV non-resident permit, and pay the fee."
__________________
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."

"Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge."
JustDreadful is offline  
Old June 30, 2009, 12:20 PM   #24
JustDreadful
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 22, 2008
Location: Sin City
Posts: 270
Unless Nordyke or... er, the nunchaku-ninja-guy case, whatever it's called... substantially expand on Heller, I would not favor a federal CCW law. I think the chances that Washington's version would be less restrictive than Carson City's are slim, and I think the Feds would tend to become more restrictive over time.
__________________
"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit upon his hands, hoist the black flag, and begin slitting throats."

"Life being what it is, one dreams of revenge."
JustDreadful is offline  
Old June 30, 2009, 01:33 PM   #25
model67a
Member
 
Join Date: February 19, 2009
Posts: 38
national reciprocity

There still is a bill pending on a national reciprocity law that he will have a vote on.
__________________
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch. Liberty is a well-armed lamb contesting the vote!
Benjamin Franklin (1706 - 1790), 1759
model67a is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:52 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.12211 seconds with 7 queries