The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > Hogan's Alley > Tactics and Training

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 13, 2009, 02:36 PM   #1
JohnH1963
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 22, 2008
Posts: 416
Defense against a Taser

If someone has a taser in hand pointed at you, is there anyway to defend against it?
JohnH1963 is offline  
Old June 13, 2009, 03:05 PM   #2
Michael Anthony
Member
 
Join Date: April 28, 2007
Posts: 83
Don't make any sudden movements and comply with the police officer's commands.

Seriously though... to bring this on topic, maybe the question should be about using a firearm to defend against a taser.
Michael Anthony is offline  
Old June 13, 2009, 03:41 PM   #3
Trooper Tyree
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 5, 2009
Posts: 167
I think this is a valid concern. Tasers are marketed in my area as personal defense weapons. You can even buy pink ones.

I'm not adding this to post "gun related content" but I do have a question about guns.

If a taser was to hit in close proximity to your ccw, would it be possible for the electrical pulse to cause detonation of one or more of the bullets in the gun/magazine? Can electrical current even detonate a bullet?

What if you are on the ground, gun is between you and ground with the steel frame grounding you to ground? You would now have a flow off current from you through the gun to ground, moreso than if you were standing and the current was going through your soles or your halo or whatever.

How would one defend against a tazer? Are certain people more immune to them than others? I grew up around electrical fences and doing my own household wiring repairs, shocks and the shock sensation are not new to me. Once you wrap you mind around it you can even function while hooked on a electric fence. I've found most of electric fences impact on people is just the fear of an "electrical shock" in reality they don't hurt you.

When tazered can you still function? Would you be able to pull your CCW? Would a knife to cut the cables be a better way to go?
Trooper Tyree is offline  
Old June 13, 2009, 03:51 PM   #4
Dragon55
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 15, 2009
Location: East Tennessee
Posts: 811
If we're gonna talk about pellet rifles and paint ball guns then certainly a taser would qualify as a firearm to me. It is certainly more incapacitating.

As far as defense I'm thinking maybe winter clothing would help but of course that would require some preparation...... i. e. you're a BG and you know there's a risk of getting tased.

I don't know the speed of the 2 little darts but I have seen a guy catch arrows from 30 yds away.
__________________
sailing ... A way to spend lots of money and go real S L O W
Dragon55 is offline  
Old June 13, 2009, 04:16 PM   #5
scottaschultz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 392
Quote:
If someone has a taser in hand pointed at you, is there anyway to defend against it?
Do a 180 and see if you can outrun it!

As far as a taser detonating a round in your weapon... if you are in a situation where someone is pointing a taser at you and your weapon is still in your holster, then you haven't been spending enough time practicing! A weapon in your holster does not do any good if you can't draw faster than the other person.

That's the great thing about these forums... I don't have to worry about missing my soap operas! The scenarios some of you guys come up with are far more entertaining!

Scott
__________________
"I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders!" Ted Nugent
scottaschultz is offline  
Old June 13, 2009, 04:17 PM   #6
Brian Pfleuger
Staff
 
Join Date: June 25, 2008
Location: Central, Southern NY, USA
Posts: 18,755
Quote:
If someone has a taser in hand pointed at you, is there anyway to defend against it?
Two ways for sure:

1)Be farther than approximately 30 feet away.

2)Shoot them.

A taser could easily be justification for shooting, possibly depending on other circumstances but certainly in many situations you would be quite justified.

It wouldn't do you a bit of good to catch the darts. That would be just like getting hit by them.
__________________
Still happily answering to the call-sign Peetza.
---
The problem, as you so eloquently put it, is choice.
-The Architect
-----
He is no fool who gives what he can not keep to gain what he can not lose.
-Jim Eliott, paraphrasing Philip Henry.
Brian Pfleuger is online now  
Old June 13, 2009, 04:32 PM   #7
Trooper Tyree
Senior Member
 
Join Date: April 5, 2009
Posts: 167
Quote:
Do a 180 and see if you can outrun it!

As far as a taser detonating a round in your weapon... if you are in a situation where someone is pointing a taser at you and your weapon is still in your holster, then you haven't been spending enough time practicing! A weapon in your holster does not do any good if you can't draw faster than the other person.

That's the great thing about these forums... I don't have to worry about missing my soap operas! The scenarios some of you guys come up with are far more entertaining!

Scott
Personally I was thinking of the scenarios where they don't raise their hand and say, "Sir, I have a taser, can you please hold still and let me shoot you with it"? If you're carrying your weapon IWB small of back, and someone steps from concealment/ambush and hits you in the back with a taser, could it cause detonation?

Answers like "Of course not because you should already have your gun in your hand" don't really answer the original question.

As for being on the ground, if you're tasered long enough, that's usually where you end up.

If you still don't think this is a valid scenario might I remind you Mall Ninjas are quite renowned for both their love of concealment and tasers?
Trooper Tyree is offline  
Old June 13, 2009, 04:50 PM   #8
DeltaB
Member
 
Join Date: June 5, 2009
Posts: 70
Quote:
If someone has a taser in hand pointed at you, is there anyway to defend against it?
If I were confronted with this scenario, my first thought is "cover." Tasers are slow in camparison to bullets, (less than 1/5 the speed) so distance is your friend. Second would be to present as small of a target as possible, sideways, weak side forward. Always moving away at right angles. Anything in your weak side hand to use as shield. A trash can lid, behind a car, even a piece of cardboard anything to cover torso. Hopefully if you are carrying, this will give you some options until you have time to present your weapon.
DeltaB is offline  
Old June 13, 2009, 04:57 PM   #9
JohnH1963
Junior member
 
Join Date: October 22, 2008
Posts: 416
Tasers are much easier to obtain then handguns. I believe some criminals probably carry these weapons because they are easier to obtain and the charges against them, if caught with one, would definately be lesser then if they were caught with a handgun.

I think its a possibility that a Taser could be used against me during a burglary or robbery thus I ask the question...
JohnH1963 is offline  
Old June 13, 2009, 09:32 PM   #10
Deaf Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2000
Location: Texican!
Posts: 3,238
Several ways to defeat a Taser.

1. Wear a vest that the barbs cannot penetrate. Maybe leather.

2. Short circuit the electrodes (metal mesh comes into mind.)

3. Block its path (umbrella?)

4. Get one barb to miss its target (quick lateral move. And that takes real good timing!)

5. Shoot 'em first.
__________________
"The government has confiscated all of our rights and is selling them back to us in the form of permits."
Deaf Smith is online now  
Old June 13, 2009, 10:05 PM   #11
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
Umbrella?

I like it. The visual amuses me greatly.

However, most of us aren't John Steed, nor even English....
MLeake is offline  
Old June 13, 2009, 10:49 PM   #12
Rich Miranda
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 4, 2008
Location: San Antonio, not San Antone...
Posts: 1,203
Quote:
As far as a taser detonating a round in your weapon... if you are in a situation where someone is pointing a taser at you and your weapon is still in your holster, then you haven't been spending enough time practicing! A weapon in your holster does not do any good if you can't draw faster than the other person.

That's the great thing about these forums... I don't have to worry about missing my soap operas! The scenarios some of you guys come up with are far more entertaining!
Scott, I'll mention the obvious first: this IS the Tactics and Training forum. Given that a taser could be used against you in a criminal act, I think the question is perfectly valid. Making fun of the OP's question is unnecessary.

Next, it is very possible, even likely, that someone could tase you before you have time to react. While criminals are indeed idiots, they generally know that they'll have to take you by surprise. And before you claim that no one could ever take you by surprise, I'll just say that yes, even you can be taken by surprise. You can be more alert or less alert, but no one is so alert that it's impossible.
__________________
Read this!: I collect .38 Special and .357 Mag cartridges and I will PAY CASH for the headstamps I don't already have! Please PM me.
Please donate blood, plasma, and platelets - people's lives literally depend on it.
Rich Miranda is offline  
Old June 14, 2009, 12:53 AM   #13
scottaschultz
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 27, 2009
Location: Missouri
Posts: 392
First of all, if I offended anyone or made light of their comments, I apologize.

Second of all, I NEVER said that I personally could not be taken by surprise. Yeah, it is Tactics and Training, and there are a lot of great ideas being exchanged on this forum, but I just can not live my life trying to account for every possible way in which someone may inflict harm on me or my loved ones. There is just no way to cover ALL the bases.

My point is that these "How do you defend yourself against..." scenarios are endless!

Let's take the same premise, but probably even more likely than being tased, how would you defend yourself if someone has a can of mace or pepper spray in hand pointed at you? It is a lot cheaper and a lot more readily available and a lot easier to use than a taser.

My other point is that regardless of how aware you are and how much you practice, there is always something you didn't count on.

On March 30, 1981, John Hinkley, Jr. managed to shoot President Reagan. 10 years later on On May 13, 1991, Mehmet Alì Agca shot Pope John Paul II. In both of these cases, these men were being protected by the most elite of all security teams on the face of the earth. There are no more thoroughly trained and situationally aware individuals than the US Secret Service and the Swiss Guard, (I am sure there are others, but these two are relevant to my statement) but yet, someone managed to get past them. If someone wants to get past your defenses, they will.

I guess what I am trying to say is that we can all be more aware of our surroundings. Carry a weapon (or weapons) and learn how to use them. Train diligently and seriously as if your life depended on it... because it does! But most of all, live your life to the fullest and don't live your life in fear. I don't.

Scott
__________________
"I don't like repeat offenders, I like dead offenders!" Ted Nugent
scottaschultz is offline  
Old June 14, 2009, 01:01 AM   #14
riggins_83
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 19, 2009
Location: Wherever I may roam
Posts: 1,483
Quote:
Block its path (umbrella?)
Man who catch Taser with umbrella can do anything.. isn't that right Mr. Miagi?
riggins_83 is offline  
Old June 14, 2009, 02:26 AM   #15
Lost Sheep
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 24, 2009
Location: Anchorage Alaska
Posts: 2,992
Tase? the verb is actually "to Taser"; tase is not a word

A man in Crestview, Florida was tasered on April 25, 2009 and when the juice was turned off, successfully drew a concealed weapon and killed the two Deputies who were arresting him.

see this news story
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7430214
abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=7430214

followed by this report of the incident
http://odmp.org/officer/19925-deputy...en-(skip)-york
odmp.org/officer/19925-deputy-sheriff-warren-(skip)-york

the second report mentions the Taser, the newspaper article did not. so I have edited this post, thanks to surg_res.

from this thread on TFL

http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/...d.php?t=354154
thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=354154

Lost Sheep

I put the grammer objection in the subject line so as not to clutter my post with dreck.

Last edited by Lost Sheep; June 14, 2009 at 04:12 PM. Reason: add the link that mentions the Taser
Lost Sheep is offline  
Old June 14, 2009, 03:19 AM   #16
stephen426
Senior Member
 
Join Date: March 11, 2005
Posts: 2,884
I bought a Taser for my wife since I can't get her to the firing range to practice (and no, NOT the pink one). She took the concealed weapons course, but never went to get finger printed or sent it in . Anyway, I don't really trust her aim, situational awareness, or resolve so I figured a Taser is safer for the "general population".

Tasers have to be registered and the cartridges release "micro dots" with tracking information of the owner. I doubt criminals would buy one and register it. The could steal an unlocked on however and easily use it.

If a criminal were to use a Taser against you, they would most likely shoot you with it first, before you ever knew it was coming. Civilian Tasers shock continuously for 30 seconds while the police models only shock for 5 seconds. For the civvie model, the idea is that you leave the taser and use the 30 seconds to run away. Taser will actually replace your Taser free with a police report. As for the officers who were shot after they Tasered the guy, they should have shocked him again or had one officer subdue him.

The only way to defeat the Taser (reasonably) is to be able to pull out the darts. Cathching them or deflecting them is impossible for most people. I saw some program on Discovery Channel where someone was able to pull out the dart. They were expecting to get Tazered and the darts were located where he could easily reach them.

So what is my point after all this? If I were a crimnal and I was planning to use a Taser to commit a crime, I would only use a stolen one. I would Taser you first (probably from behind) if you were at an ATM or if I followed you out of a bank. Your ability to defend yourself is limited at best, kind of like if someone whacked you over the back of the head.
__________________
The ATF should be a convenience store instead of a government agency!
stephen426 is offline  
Old June 14, 2009, 03:27 AM   #17
DougO83
Senior Member
 
Join Date: June 1, 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 386
A few things:

1. A Taser, the product sold by Taser International, is not somthing that the average crook can get their hands on. The buyer is run through a background check. Though I do not understand all of the nuts 'n bolts of the check, I know it is thorough.

2. Anything can deflect or deter a Taser's leads. An untrained person is not likely going to get both leads to stick in the intended target.

3. You can swat the leads out of your clothing/out of their intended path. It really isn't hard to do. We worked on stuff like this when I was certified to carry one for work.

4. It only works for a moment unless pressure is kept on the trigger. I was only incapacitated for about 3 seconds and was totally functional as soon as the current was stopped. However, you are completely helpless when you get hit, usually. Some are less affected by the current.

Can you resist the current? Maybe. Some people have proven to have a resistance of some sort to the blast. I do not have it and I was told that 'tensing up' can decrease the initial effect, but increase long-term damage*.




*Not verified personally
__________________
"You can all go to hell, I'm going to Texas."
---Colonel David Crockett

Matt 6:33
DougO83 is offline  
Old June 14, 2009, 03:32 AM   #18
Bigjim3
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 21, 2008
Location: Alabama
Posts: 419
The taser, Sucks Ive been tased 3 times. (I work in a jail) and have crapy friends. The best thing I know to tell you is do what the officer tells you to do when he or she tells you to do it. A drive stun is just as bad. I can asure you it will light up your life. But it beats the pepper spray anyday..
__________________
Jesus according to Luke:22:36: Then said he unto them, ,,,,,, and he that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one......... Thomas Jefferson: "No man shall ever be debarred the use of arms. The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
Bigjim3 is offline  
Old June 14, 2009, 09:03 AM   #19
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
Haven't been tased yet...

.... but got to experience the CS gas chamber as part of security training, way back when. Not sure which was worse, the tearing eyes or the endless stream of snot.

We rode around in the back of a stake truck (6wheel with the fencing sides and open topped bed) afterward for five or ten minutes, just sticking our heads over the side into the wind, trying to blow as much of the residue out of our faces as possible.

Probably looked like one of the big dog movies, where the drool flies around while the dog's head is out the window.
MLeake is offline  
Old June 14, 2009, 09:53 AM   #20
surg_res
Senior Member
 
Join Date: September 29, 2005
Location: Texas
Posts: 568
Quote:
A man in Crestview, Florida was tasered on April 25, 2009 and when the juice was turned off, successfully drew a concealed weapon and killed the two Deputies who were arresting him.
I can't find anything in the article about a taser, still confused by that story.

I don't think that a taser, or other electrical source, could detonate a rifle or pistol round unless it is specifically designed to do so. I would guess that to generate a spark there would have to be capacitance generated between two surfaces not in direct contact with one another.
__________________
----
surg_res is offline  
Old June 14, 2009, 10:09 AM   #21
tmd11111
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 26, 2009
Location: San Angelo, Tx
Posts: 275
"Don't Taze me Dude"


Sorry, couldn't resist saying that.
tmd11111 is offline  
Old June 14, 2009, 02:05 PM   #22
cracked91
Senior Member
 
Join Date: February 17, 2009
Posts: 385
I was trained in the use of tasers about 6 months ago. (never got tased though, they don't require it anymore)

1. Normally a taser is not going to be a prime choice for a bg

2. Tasers are wildly inaccurate, even up close the barbs spread alot, so if someone points it at you your best bet is probably going to be to run and hope one barb misses you.

3. If someone misses, they will not have nearly enough time to reload before you can take action.

4. Tasers often have trouble with loose, thick, or baggy clothing.

5. They normally last 5 seconds, but on the new ones you can pull the trigger multiple times and stack the charge up to 30 seconds.

If you get hit, your best bet would be to wait for the charge to stop, and as quickly as you can tear one barb out, we saw videos of a guy who got tased 5 times by 5 officers because he every time he would wait and as soon as the charge stopped he would swat if off.
cracked91 is offline  
Old June 14, 2009, 02:10 PM   #23
Deaf Smith
Senior Member
 
Join Date: October 31, 2000
Location: Texican!
Posts: 3,238
Quote:
However, most of us aren't John Steed, nor even English....
It's not just an umbrella, but anything you can get in the way of the barbs path.

Anything from a newspaperto a grocery bag to a thrown jacket, etc... You will find in tank warfare one of the ways to stop a Saggar or TOW is to drive the tank behind a tree, fence, shack, etc... Same idea, Just get something in between you and the barbs path.
__________________
"The government has confiscated all of our rights and is selling them back to us in the form of permits."
Deaf Smith is online now  
Old June 14, 2009, 03:35 PM   #24
MLeake
Senior Member
 
Join Date: November 15, 2007
Location: Outside KC, MO
Posts: 10,128
Reply to Deaf Smith

I agree with you entirely. Even so, I'm enjoying the mental picture of the umbrella being used to thwart the foul foe.

But yes, there are an amazing array of improvised weapons available out there, if you are creative enough and quick enough, and ideally well trained enough, to make use of them.
MLeake is offline  
Old June 14, 2009, 03:56 PM   #25
mskdgunman
Senior Member
 
Join Date: December 28, 2008
Posts: 127
Criminals now practice ways of defeating the Taser. The most common method we've seen is baggy clothes (they increase the distance between the probe and the skin) and trying to roll out of it and break at least one of the wires which renders it useless. You don't have to pull the probes out, just break one of the wires. Some of our BG's have gotten pretty good at it but nothing works 100% of the time. Still, they practice and they realize the limitations of the weapon.

There was a line of clothing being advertised a while back which was supposed to contain a foil or a mesh that defeated the Taser. I'm not sure who makes it or if they are still being offered for sale but the reports I read on line seemed to indicate that it worked.
mskdgunman is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:05 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.13967 seconds with 9 queries