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Old June 24, 2009, 08:49 PM   #26
Brian Pfleuger
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WildAlaska
Now me, I would have ripped off a Dew from the pack, torn off my clothes down to my spandex thong
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Originally Posted by Otaku
Why do I have an image of Machoman Randy Savage in my mind?

That right there, folks, is the funniest mental image I can recall in quite some time.


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Old June 24, 2009, 10:38 PM   #27
Trooper Tyree
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I was in a similar situation recently at, surprise, Wal-Mart as well. My brother and I were going to go fishing, and he needed a license, so we were at the Sporting goods desk in the back.

It was about 7 or so in the evening, and there was a young fellow in front of us, late twenties to thirtyish. He was fairly fit looking, maybe 5'9", trim, had a folding carpenters knife on his belt. Hat on his head, head appeared to be shaved clean underneath. I couldn't tell if he was/had been sick, or if it was just shaven.

There was some sort of problem with the transaction that required a Manager to override. The clerk, a 17-18 year old girl had paged for a CSM to come back to the sporting goods counter. I didn't think much of it, figured a CSM would be over in a minute and we'd all be on our way. After several minutes she either paged or phoned the office. I've forgotten the order it went down in, but I think she paged for a CSM twice, and seemed hesitant to page again, and so she called the office, I think again twice. We stood there for probably close to ten minutes though. By then I was getting ******. At the CSM though, for leaving the girl hanging like that. I'd been watching the guy all this time and I was getting more and more antsy for a CSM to GTF over there and resolve it, he was making me nervous.

Unlike KingEdward's though it wasn't an outward show of anger or verbal abuse. He was quite and feigning politeness. Or trying to stay polite. But you could see he had a certain tension in him, he was wound up and getting more so as time went on. It was building and he was just holding it in.

I'm sure a lot of us do that, but he was making me nervous. I don't know what it was, but he was getting me pretty taunt and wound up myself. In reflection part of it was his funny way of standing mostly very still. Try doing that for minutes on end, it's not natural. Towards the end he did start pacing around a bit, I don't remember if he was clinching his hands into fists while standing or not, but I do remember him thumping the counter a time or two with a closed fist about 8 min in or so. He was still very contained though, in that it wasn't really directed at anyone.

I didn't have a CCW on me. I had a Ti-lite, I always carry a knife, but in a tool capacity. Sure they will act as a self defense weapon if you have to, but that's not why I carry them and they aren't what I turn to first. In this case I just reclined myself on the shelf of baseball bats behind him and watched. If the SHTF I had a nice bat all picked out, and I was also trying to act as a barrier between him and the bats, kind of keep them out of sight out of mind, no need to tempt the fellow.

It blew over very uneventfully though. At the end of the ten minutes or so, he suddenly told the girl very politely, "I'm sorry, I know this isn't your fault, but I just don't have time to deal with this right now" and walked out the automotive exit. My intuition was he knew his boundaries and had reached a point where he wanted to leave before the CSM showed up and he reacted by ripping his head off or otherwise going ape on him.

The clerk processed my brothers license and we left, there was still no CSM in sight at that point. I was a bit drained myself, typical letdown from a stressful situation, and was tempted to wait for the CSM and let loose on him myself but I figured stupid is as stupid does. If he keeps up that bad of service he might learn putting the baseball bat display on the shelf by the checkout counter might not be such a good idea.

I really felt that the CSM had put the clerk in danger by taking so long to respond. I also felt I had been put in danger by proxy. I was not a happy camper when I left.
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Old June 24, 2009, 11:08 PM   #28
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don't know what it was, but he was getting me pretty taunt and wound up myself. In reflection part of it was his funny way of standing mostly very still. Try doing that for minutes on end, it's not natural. Towards the end he did start pacing around a bit, I don't remember if he was clinching his hands into fists while standing or not, but I do remember him thumping the counter a time or two with a closed fist about 8 min in or so. He was still very contained though, in that it wasn't really directed at anyone.
Gawd dude you ought to see me when I have to wait unecessarily, I make that guy look like hes a yogi....I would run your hinkymeter off the scales and I am a scruffy, nasty looking creature on top of it with the personality of a constipated badger when I am in a good mood

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Old June 24, 2009, 11:25 PM   #29
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Unlike WA, I don't wait... I tell the "clerk" "nebbermind, I will git the CSM my dern self!" And off I go... I look fer a fancy button down shirt and snag 'em!
they often seem to appease me just to keep their throat intact... It is either me or I will sic mrs.hogdogs (virtually a hungry bulldog with a yappin ankle biter 'tween her and a feed dish...) on 'em! And TEE-RUST MEEEEE... that irate beer buyer don't wanna keep her from getting her goods across the laser so her milk don't get hot!!!
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Old June 25, 2009, 12:16 AM   #30
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Everytime I go to walmart there is no customer service in any department I need help in.I got in trouble by a store manager when I bought a bicycle for my son and the one he wanted was on the top metal rack.

They paged for someone to that department but after ten minutes, I said *** out load and then spotted a big metal step ladder on wheels I rolled the baby over climbed up and pull the bike out of the rack.Just as I got half way down the steps Some one comes along to see me on the ladder. My wife was laughing because I got caught red handed.I got the speech about the insurance and employees only yada yada yada.
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Old June 25, 2009, 03:11 AM   #31
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While wildalaska is just looking for that special attention he so disparately needs I will say that it is typical for a person to lash out at authority from time to time.

Walmart has a display that says if you appear to be over 40 you will be carded. Some folks take being carded as a complement of looking younger. Others take it as an abuse of power.

I ask, even though wildalaska has no credibility, what does this thread have to do with firearms? Two pages of no firearm talk and it is still going.
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Old June 25, 2009, 04:03 AM   #32
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Having worked in retail before, I find that knowing how to work the store's PA system is invaluable in these situations. The CSM and Store Manger may ignore their own employees, but it's amazing how quickly they move when a customer announces to the whole store, "Hey can we get some help in Sporting Goods? This poor cashier has called for a manger five times and I have places to go. Could we either get a manager over here or could someone give me the number to your corporate office so I can complain about the slow service in this store?"

Works every time!
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Old June 25, 2009, 08:49 AM   #33
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KingEdward, it sounds to me as if you did the right thing and de-escalated the situation.

One thought, in re this comment: "like, you don't know all the facts so keep quiet and don't intervene" -- I would venture to say that in this situation, you knew all the facts you needed to know, because you saw the situation unfold from the beginning. If you had just walked in while it was happening, that would have been a different situation. But having watched it from the beginning you knew the situation well enough to figure what sort of intervention could legally & morally be made.

cloud ~

Given that most of the people posting here would be armed in such situations, and that the topic has remained strongly on the tactics one could use to defuse & de-escalate the situation so that their firearm would remain unneeded, the thread is on topic for this forum so far. It could go either way, though, so we'll keep an eye on it.

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Old June 25, 2009, 11:25 AM   #34
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I will say that it is typical for a person to lash out at authority from time to time.
If you see cashiers at Walmart as "authority", I can't imagine what lowly role you must play in our society.

Idiots lash out at clerks for the opposite reason, they are easy targets with no auth-or-i-tah at all. They are the only people professional bums, drunks, and crackheads have any contact with that they feel they can push around.

Hogdogs shows his true nobility by aiming his displeasure at lazy managers.
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Old June 25, 2009, 11:52 AM   #35
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At the first indication that the fellow was a nut.. I would have called 911 and reported a crazy man "going off" in (store name.... location).

This is my mindset: If my failure to act (physically) right here and right this second, will result in a innocent person being seriously injured... I will take physical action against a bad-guy. This does not mean that I am going to hang around to see "what if this or what if that" is going to happen. If there is an indication of trouble(enough to alarm me), I will call 911 and get myself away from danger/trouble. It is better to have Police arrive sooner than later. That fellow could have very easily been getting any number of things out of his car. His actions from the start were unreasonable.. I admit that we all have said a thing or two when stressed that we probably should not have, but to rant and rant like this fellow is a indication to me that he has deeper issues.

I am glad that this situation worked out.. I am not saying your actions were wong, just that I "probably" would have acted different.
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Old June 25, 2009, 12:05 PM   #36
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Fortunately in NV there isn't a legal obligation to disarm for a private business posting a "no firearms" sign, they carry no weight of law.

I think many of us have had a similar situation thrust upon us, one for me happened in a 7-11 around 7pm during one Winter. Guy was yelling when I got in, apparently upset that his gas pump wasn't working. Clerk straightened it out, then the guy left. Couple minutes later as I was paying for my slurpee or whatever, he came back in yelling and cursing a storm. Proceeded straight to the clerk, I had already stepped back and out of his way. He was yelling about the pump still not working, saying the clerk put his money on the wrong pump, demanded refund, etc.

Clerk handled it pretty well, looked at dude and told him "You need to push the little button and turn it on"... Guy looked ready to explode, but the realization that his anger and issues were all his own fault quickly calmed him down and he left without incident.



These situations very rarely would produce the need for a firearm, IMHO only if the aggressor produced a weapon of his own. But the thought that I had my CCW (only had it for about 2 months prior) was very comforting.
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Old June 25, 2009, 12:48 PM   #37
ilbob
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In the end, no physical aggression (other than he grabbed at the beer) and no crime committed.
so no reason for you to become involved.
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Old June 25, 2009, 12:55 PM   #38
KingEdward
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correct, not physically involved.

At the time he was really seeming to boil and rock back and forth was when
I moved forward and made some noise of my own and said the comment.

I felt that had he stayed honed in on her, and only her, he was going to lash out.
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Old June 25, 2009, 02:30 PM   #39
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The part of your story that made my hair stand up a little was when you said he went out to his car and came back. Glad he went for his ID card.
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Old June 25, 2009, 02:59 PM   #40
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suffice it to say I had my eyes on him.

When he leaned in and was digging around in the car (which was about 75 feet away outside) the thought hit me,

"what if he comes back in with something way worse than an id card?"

that would have probably caused me to back away for a moment and
dial 911.
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Old June 25, 2009, 04:15 PM   #41
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Gotta be carefull around folks like that. We were in a mickey Ds years ago, a guy was giving the cashier a very hard time making her so nervous she couldnt ring him out. This guy was like 6'6 or so built good in dressy clothes too. The young kid behind the grill was telling the girl how to work the register he was of African descent, the guy said a very rude thing to the kid, I turns to a friend of mine as we were still waiting to order and tole her that old bigots do go away after they die and quit wasting the air. That guy hit me with his tray, on it was some of that nortoriously hot coffee. It hurt. I slammed him to the ground and told him I didnt work there and he couldnt treat me that way when my friends grabbed me and pulled me off. The cops came, I got a free breakfast and a small burn. I never would have thought anyone would react that way but he did and so fast I had no way to avoid the tray as it hit my head.

I had a cousin that was in a store, guy ran past him with a case of beer, my cousin chased him down and held him till the cops got there, cousin got his stuff free from the store. Sadly he passed away awhile ago.

Stuff hits the fan it goes so quick your head will spin.

When a guy I was escorting out of the bar one night took 2 steps turned and emptied a .25 at me, missed me but the shorts took a beating that night. Was so fast All I could do is drop and roll under a truck. It happens fast then all you can do is hang on and go for the ride.
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Old June 25, 2009, 06:30 PM   #42
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When I was a child my dad took me to his job Amtrak-Railroad to show me the train engines at the diesel shop.Little did I know there was this big bulley that use to pick on him.He was a big guy over 6ft 200lbs or better and my dad was 5'5 170.My dad always turned the other cheek in fear of lose of his job perhaps some fear of the big guy.

My dad took me at a time this guy normally does not work but so happens was working overtime that day and my dad had a run in with this guy.The guy was breaking his chops and I guess my dad had enough and the next I remember was this big dude out cold on the concrete floor. It happen so fast I didn't even see the punch that dad layed on his jaw but just heard a strange crack sound.Needless to say the guy stayed clear from dad from that point on.I guess it is true the hand is quicker then the eye.
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Old June 25, 2009, 06:36 PM   #43
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The thing is, while the time where you need to draw a firearm will come with no warning and little time to make the call, the times where you don't need to draw at all make up the VAST majority of cases. Most times in these situations, ANYONE standing up to the bully will make him back down. In the few situations left, the other person is unlikely to be able or willing to apply deadly force.

We don't live in the Wild West, and thank goodness for that. Also, thank goodness that you were there and able to apply the correct amount of pressure to make an idiot back down.
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Old June 28, 2009, 07:45 AM   #44
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I guess I too am missing something here. If, as the OP mentioned that the Asian man appeared to be between 40 and 50, why was the clerk asking for proof of age?
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Old June 28, 2009, 09:00 AM   #45
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Carding 40+

Happens to me all the time. While I look young for my age, I don't look under 30. It's just that many stores have corporate policies requiring cashiers to card anybody who isn't obviously AARP eligible.

Don't take it personally. The cashier is just trying to avoid getting fired.
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Old June 28, 2009, 09:39 AM   #46
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Quote: "Don't take it personally." No, I don't, I was carded till I was thirty four or thirty five. Loved it. But I think the Asian gentleman just cracked under the irritation due to the abject stupidity that has begun to permeate the atmosphere. Following your theory this would be the management of the store.
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Old July 1, 2009, 05:56 PM   #47
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KingEdward, I witnessed a similar situation in Clarksville a couple of weeks ago.
Convieniance store gas pump was out of receipt paper and forced me inside. There was only two other people in the store when I entered and theywere approaching the counter from different angles. The man, about fifty, from the chip rack at my 11:00 with chips. The woman, 45ish, from the coolers, at my 3:00 with a twelve pack.
We were all equal distance from the counter at my 10:00 so I eased to my right and let them fight over who is first. As I assumed a position 2 yards to their 6:00 the woman put her intended purchase on the counter and the clerk, woman-30ish asked for ID. the woman patron stated she didn't have one. Clerk stated she couldn't sell. Woman got Angry and insisted. Clerk didn't budge but showed signs of being nervous. Then the man stepped forward and said he would buy the beer. Clerk stood her ground and said she could not sell beer to someone who was obviously going to purchase it for someone else. He got MAD and approached the counter, clerk stepped back, he slammed the counter with his fist and cussed and swore...clerk took another step back very frightened and reiterated her inability to sell...
He said he would take his business elsewhere and turned to leave. There I was, now 90 degrees to his left, with my arms folded behind my back. He jumped as he had obviously forgottenmy presense during his mini conniption.
The woman also left and they got in the same car. The visibly shaken clerk came back forward appologizing and fumbleing with the cash register.
I just said "That would have really sucked if you had sold them the beer just to find out one of them was from the liquor board" she felt pretty good at that.
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Old July 2, 2009, 10:51 PM   #48
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Clerk stood her ground and said she could not sell beer to someone who was obviously going to purchase it for someone else.
I know we have a rule against straw buyers for guns.

And I know adults are not permitted to buy alcohol for minors.

But is there a law that prohibits an adult from buying alcohol for someone else who is clearly an adult (a 45ish woman)?
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Old July 2, 2009, 10:59 PM   #49
Shadi Khalil
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I dont get how or why a weapon would be of any use in this situation. Why did you feel like you were in danger?
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Old July 3, 2009, 03:27 PM   #50
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"But is there a law that prohibits an adult from buying alcohol for someone else who is clearly an adult (a 45ish woman)?"

She could not prove that she was 45ish any more then she could prove she was 22ish. She (or you or I...) are all les then 21 unless we can provide proof otherwise. Therefore, he would have been purchaseing for a minor.
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