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Old June 22, 2009, 02:57 AM   #26
Nnobby45
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My nextdoor neighbor had something similar happen. He was awakened at night by a knock on the door, but didn't open the door since it was late and he didn't recognize the person at the door. Instead of answering the door he went to a window with a view of the door and watched to see what was going on...............
Ayoob wrote up a very similar story (potentially) about a knock on the door and an accomplice hiding in wait. The knocker wouldn't leave until the citizen, home with his young son, held his Glock up in the window.

The two teens later murdered a couple of college professors in an adjoining state when they were let in posing as college students. The man and woman professors were brutally stabbed to death for their kindness.

Back to the man and his young son. The next day a grave just big enough for the two of them was found near the front yard.

The plan was to murder people to see what it was like, and travel thru Europe on the stolen credit cards.

I know some of you saw the story.
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Old June 22, 2009, 04:10 AM   #27
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Male or female I will try to treat each the same.

In my three defensive encounters women were a part in two of them. The worst night of my life involved a 70 something year old lady and an 8" kitchen knife.

If I don't know you, or expect you I'm probably not going to open the security door. I will talk to you through it.

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Old June 22, 2009, 05:50 AM   #28
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And people think i'm paranoid sitting around with my gun on my hip while watching everything that goes on through night vision camera's that i set up around my house.
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Old June 22, 2009, 10:24 AM   #29
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And people think i'm paranoid sitting around with my gun on my hip while watching everything that goes on through night vision camera's that i set up around my house.
Not me. I'd call you smart and prepared.
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Old June 22, 2009, 03:57 PM   #30
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I live in a "not so great" part of a medium sized college town. I keep a .38 hidden downstairs but even with it available quickly I'm still not opening the door. When I first moved into my place I was told that a man was going door to door with a lawnmower asking if he could mow for a few dollars, if you allowed him to he would mow and ask for $5, If not he would rob you at Knife point. Seemed stupid to me (we live in an apartment with no grass) But I heard someone fell for it.
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Old June 22, 2009, 04:02 PM   #31
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Over the last few months I've finally got my wife to not open the door.
I will open it if I know you, otherwise it stays locked. The two 90lbs dogs barking "bloody murder" helps people get the hint.
I feel it's my job not to be a victim.
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Old June 22, 2009, 04:36 PM   #32
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A couple of comments on this:

I've noticed that there is some kind of sleazy magazine subscription company out there that targets people in drug re-hab to sell subscriptions door-to-door. Someone drops them off, they have to go door to door and then someone comes buy to pick them up. I can generally spot them a block away and most of the time, won't open the door for them.

Once, I saw one of them just standing on the corner of my yard. Now, mind you I live in a spread out neighborhood where most of the losts are one acre or more. So, this looked really out of place. I approached her and asked what she was doing hanging around out here. She explained, and I determined that she really wasn't a threat. If anything, she was being exploited by some sleazy magazine company. So, I left her alone and conspicuously noted the license tag of the car that picked her up. I havent' seen these folks come around since then.

Now, I carry a gun with me to the door, and place it in a spot where i can grab it quickly. I still don't genrally open the door, even during the daytime, unless I recognize the kids or their paraents.

On another note. About 10 years ago I was riding my motorcycle going by a neighbohood. I noticed that another motorcycle was laying in the ditch. I got off my bike and approached the other motorcycle wondering what happened - thinking perhaps it was stolen. Then, I looked about 10 yards in front of me and noticed a guy just lying in the dirt - no helmet and he wasn't moving. It was late at night and I ran to get help. I knocked on several doors, but no one would help. I never asked to come in - just told them to please call 911 or an ambulance. Fortunately someone did. I think the guy lived, don't really know what ever happened to him. Ambulance came, I gave a statement to the cops and left.

The only point is, be careful. Be prepared, but there are times when people do need help. If someone asks you for help in the middle of the night, grab your gun, but dont' forget to call the cops.
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Old June 22, 2009, 04:37 PM   #33
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All this reminds me of a funny thing that happened half a century ago - in kinder times before we had "intruders".

Actually, it was really closer to 60 years ago - I was a medical student, it was a warm Saturday afternoon, and I was catching up on sleep by taking a nap on my sofa. The door was open (as we did in those days) but, the screen door was hooked. The fad of the time was people selling magazine subscriptions citing the most imaginative reasons for their need to get income from their sales.

An attractive young woman rang the doorbell and, still half asleep, I answered it.

Her opening question was, "Would you be willing to help my husband out?". Not quite awake my answer was "certainly, step right in!" as I flung the screen door wide open.

She blushed a bright red, stepped back, and hurried to explain the help he needed was that he was blind and he could get some medical help from the money she would make if I bought a subscription to one of her magazines.

I declined but had difficulty keeping a straight face realizing the implications of our conversation.

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Old June 22, 2009, 04:44 PM   #34
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Another situation where a dog would have helped.

Living out in the country we hav e a different perspective on folks that just drop by. Most get run off, then a call is made to the next neighbor to give them a heads up and so on.

1/4 mile up the road the old folks were working the garden when 2 guys snuck into their house and stole a bunch of stuff, they sold and moved. We now have our own ver of watch. Some retired folks keep a sharp eye and a phone at hand. A good dog in almost every yard too. Then agsain we also have them killer steers, they know whats coming, they know.... dont let em catch ya...
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Old June 22, 2009, 04:49 PM   #35
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If someone I didn't know came to my door needing help, I would have no problem calling 911.
But opening myself up for them not knowing what was going on.
What an easy set up. Woman in need, of grabbing your attention so her partners in crime can invite them selves in. No thanks, may sound paranoid but when it comes to my family safety everyone else comes last.
Don't get me wrong, a few months back saw a kid doing a grab & dash at the local 7/11 I visit often. I chased him, he out weighed me by 50-60 pounds. As I chased him and threatened to beat his ... when I caught him he dropped the beer he stole and started to face off with me. So I just made sure he heard the description of him I was giving to the 911 operator. He took off running and he was caught 3 min later. I'm not heartless or afraid of confrontation I just tend to sway to my families safety first and foremost.
Would I have done this with my family in the car? NO... just a call to 911.
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Old June 22, 2009, 05:01 PM   #36
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I can say "NO" to a strange girl as easily as I can to a strange man.
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Old June 22, 2009, 06:43 PM   #37
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Reading these posts is like deja vu all over again. We have some good friends that live in a large city in Kansas. We keep in close contact with them and the scenario described by the OP actually happened to them a few weeks back. I'll call our friends Mark and Linda. About 8:30 AM one morning the doorbell rang, Mark went to the door, a lady about 35 yrs old standing there, hair disheveled, she cried, please help me, my boyfriend just threw me out of the car and drove off, let me come in and use the bathroom. Before Mark could stop her she shoved by him and came in. She kept crying let me use the bathroom so they showed her the bathroom. Twenty minutes later she was still in there. Linda went to the bathroom door and pounded on it telling the woman in a loud voice to come out. She came out, crying, "I have two unattended children at home, you have to give me a ride there, they are all by themselves." Mark said okay, "I'll get the car out" and told Linda to stay with the woman while he was opening the garage door. After he went out, the woman told Linda to go help Mark and she would wait inside, Linda wasn't having any part of that, and she got the woman out into the car and it was a twenty minute ride to where she wanted dropped off which was a shopping center at the west edge of the city. She said she would walk the rest of the way.

When Mark and Linda got home, they found the bathroom medicine cabinet was stripped bare of all the prescription drugs, and in the linen closet Linda's jewelry box had been rifled and several items taken including two items which had been gifts from her children. They called the police and when they described the woman the cop kind of laughed and said we know exactly who she is, she has pulled this four times this month. She has no children and she doesn't live anywhere near that shopping center. We haven't heard whether the woman was aprehended. Even if she was the stolen items are long gone into some crack seller's hands. Mark and Linda made a tough choice, and a wrong one, they believe in doing the right things for people but this time it was their loss.
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Old June 22, 2009, 06:49 PM   #38
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There was a story going around about 10 years or so ago.

Guy goes out to his car and the battery is gone.
Note says wife went into labor, my car wouldn't start I took your battery.
Here is 50 bucks and tickets to the basketball game for next Friday night.
So went to the game to find their house cleaned out.
Crooks gave themselves 3 or 4 hours of free rain to clean the place out.
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Old June 23, 2009, 08:17 AM   #39
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Everyone that knows me that you don't knock on my door after about 8pm. And if they need to they know to call... or they know they will meet me at the door with at least 1 weapon. I have kids and a wife. Before that you "might" have caught me off guard...but not now.

There is no reason for anyone to knock on my door late at night. If they hope for an "easy score" they would do better to look elsewhere.
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Old June 23, 2009, 09:16 AM   #40
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On another note. About 10 years ago I was riding my motorcycle going by a neighbohood. I noticed that another motorcycle was laying in the ditch. I got off my bike and approached the other motorcycle wondering what happened - thinking perhaps it was stolen. Then, I looked about 10 yards in front of me and noticed a guy just lying in the dirt - no helmet and he wasn't moving. It was late at night and I ran to get help. I knocked on several doors, but no one would help. I never asked to come in - just told them to please call 911 or an ambulance. Fortunately someone did. I think the guy lived, don't really know what ever happened to him. Ambulance came, I gave a statement to the cops and left.
Skans,

Good reminder.

We live on a rural highway, have lived out here nearly 15 years now. During all that time, probably once a month and sometimes more often, we've needed to call the police and ambulance for car accidents after dark that happen on our corner. There's nobody else around to do it, and most cell phones don't get signal here. And if we don't hear the accident ourselves, our first knowledge that the phone call is needed is nearly always someone pounding on our door.

I still feel pretty awful about the young man who died in the car that rolled into the ditch across the street a few years back. Accident happened maybe around 10 or 11 at night - we never heard it - and they found his body the next morning at 9 am. Cold freezing night and I think he would have made it, if someone had heard and called when it first happened.

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Old June 23, 2009, 10:19 AM   #41
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most people would think twice or simply not open the door after say 10pm

why do some of the same people just easily open the door at 10am

just don't understand it.

keep door CLOSED... PERIOD.

I can look through a window and decide how to proceed.
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Old June 23, 2009, 10:31 AM   #42
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bdturnerWatch the movie "The Devils Rejects" you will never open the door to a stranger again.
So true ha ha! Thats exactly what I thought of when I read the title of the OP.
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Old June 23, 2009, 06:26 PM   #43
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Just a couple of months ago I was sitting in the living room on the computer and I heard the front door handle being manipulated. I knew the wife and kids were in bed so I went to the bedroom and got my Glock and went back to the livingroom. I verfy that the door is locked and now there is kicking and punding on the door. So I yell for my wife to call the cops and confront the person through the door telling them to leave and that if the door opens they will be shot. I hear a female reply and lookout the window to identify her( We have a neighbor that might come over if her husband showed up at the house) after realizing that I did not know her I told my wife to let the cops know that this person was kicking the door trying to get in and that I was armed and prepared to shoot if it came to that.

5 Cop cars were at my house in 2 minutes and the woman at the door was arrested on numerous charges. One of the officers saw my Glock on the coffee table and commented that her night could have been much worse if she had gotten in. This woman was saying she knew us to which the cop replied "You can thank God you are going to jail tonight because if that door had come open you would be in the morgue."

My wife thought that having the gun drawn on the door was overkill until I explained that we had no idea what or who was out there and that I will always error on the side of caution when it comes to my family's safety. She understood after that and said that she thought the gun was only if they got in the house but then she said "I guess then it could be too late."

Like most here male or female if I do not know you you are a threat until you show otherwise. If you need help say so through the door and I will call the authorities for you. It is sad that we live in times where we can be more open to taking people at their word and offering help if they need it.
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Old June 23, 2009, 06:30 PM   #44
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So I yell for my wife to call the cops and confront the person through the door telling them to leave and that if the door opens they will be shot.
Shot for what Kicking your door in? Was she a threat? was she committing a burglary? What is the governing statute in your jurisdiction ? Can you shoot someone who kicks down your door and enters without more?

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Old June 24, 2009, 01:30 AM   #45
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wildalaksa
"Shot for what Kicking your door in? Was she a threat? was she committing a burglary? What is the governing statute in your jurisdiction ? Can you shoot someone who kicks down your door and enters without more?"

wait a minute. When someone is kicking in your door and then does kick it in what is the proper response? Especially after you told them you were armed?

Let us say she kicked it in because she was freaking out that someone was after her. Are you not drawing down ready to fire if she is the threat or what was following behind a threat?

In my "jurisdiction" someone kicking your door in is a major threat.

Are you against warning someone who is kicking down your door that you are armed? Are you against being armed at all when somebody is kicking down your door? Are you in a "jurisdiction" where someone kicking down your door is not cause for alarm?

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Old June 24, 2009, 05:41 AM   #46
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When someone is kicking in your door and then does kick it in what is the proper response? Especially after you told them you were armed?
Cover, cower, conceal...and evaluate.......

Quote:
In my "jurisdiction" someone kicking your door in is a major threat.
I assume you are in gun'em down Texas, where folks can be shot for property crimes

Quote:
Are you against warning someone who is kicking down your door that you are armed? Are you against being armed at all when somebody is kicking down your door? Are you in a "jurisdiction" where someone kicking down your door is not cause for alarm?
Did I say any of that?

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Old June 24, 2009, 11:01 AM   #47
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Did I say any of that?
Not word for word, but your post conveyed general disapproval, as did your signature "lose the testosterone please."

Let's look at this post in the TACTICS forum:

Situation: Unknown person, working the doorknob, kicking at the door, trying to get in the house.

Response: Verbal warning, call the police, and make sure a weapon is handy if needed.

How can that be criticized? I know a bit about endocrinology, and I would respectfully submit that adrenaline was much more active than testosterone in the situation, and even then MarineCorpsAT gave a considered, measured, controlled, and responsible response.

Tactically, should he have not considered even the possibility that a stranger beating on his door late at night might have unwelcome intent? Is that a time to have his gun in the safe? Should he not even have called the police. Was a verbal warning out of line?

If his tactics were bad enough to deserve your obvious ridicule, please suggest what he should have done differently.

I personally commend his actions, and hope that I will be as collected as he if I face the same situation.
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Old June 24, 2009, 11:18 AM   #48
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Cover, cower, conceal...and evaluate.......
Cover...got it. Gun in hand.
Cower...so ridiculous it doesn't even warrant comment
Conceal...in my own home. Got that covered.
Evaluate...Trying to enter my home, uninvited and after being warned of the consequences of entry. Ok...evaluated as threat.

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I assume you are in gun'em down Texas, where folks can be shot for property crimes
That's pretty uneducated, but ok. Someone trying to force themselves into an obviously occupied domicile is no longer a property crime. It is now viewed, not only by me, as a threat on the welfare of the occupants.

PS. Why the obsession with cowering? Is this a proven strategy that accomplishes anything? No. Cowering is not going to make a criminal stop. Cowering is not going to prevent, slow, or deter crime. Measured, sometimes violent, response and reaction will. Of course, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure, but to suggest cowering is ludicrous at best. Most BG's won't think "Oh hell, that guy Bob just runs to the closet when we try to kick the door in. That's not even worth the effort. Let's go down to Jimmy's house, at least he'll shoot at us."
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Old June 24, 2009, 11:23 AM   #49
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Ok...evaluated as threat. Someone trying to force themselves into an obviously occupied domicile is no longer a property crime. It is now viewed, not only by me, as a threat on the welfare of the occupants.
Or.... she could be running FROM a threat (rapist, mugger, murderer), or she could be freaked out by being in or witnessing a bad car accident and looking for help.... I wouldn't expect her (he/she/them) to necessarily be doing the "logical" thing in one of those instances....

So she finally makes it into your house and..... you blow her away..... oops, turns out she's a mom of 3 that just got carjacked with her kids still in the car... oh well, anyone banging and kicking on your door should just know that they're seen as a threat, you just can't take chances withe these things. That'll teach her.
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Old June 24, 2009, 11:33 AM   #50
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Or.... she could be running FROM a threat (rapist, mugger, murderer),
Highly unlikely. Regardless, it doesn't matter who the threat is, if someone comes through my door uninvited, I will be very well-prepared to drop him/her/them in his/her/their tracks. It depends on the situation highly, and I will likely repeat this fact: if I am alone, I will be more likely to allow a strange person into the home. If I have additional liability issues, i.e. brother, gf, parents, around nobody gets to barge in the house, regardless of the reason. I have a much greater duty to protect my loved ones than I do myself or anyone else.

Quote:
or she could be freaked out by being in or witnessing a bad car accident and looking for help.... I wouldn't expect her (he/she/them) to necessarily be doing the "logical" thing in one of those instances....
BS...I would venture a guess that nearly 80% of Americans have cell phones now. You see a wreck? Ok. Call 911. Also, if I tell you "if you come through the door, I will shoot." You should take the time to explain yourself. If I didn't have any family in the home, I may let you in. If family is around, I won't let you inside, but you are more than welcome to sit on the front deck and call 911 when I toss the phone out the window.

Quote:
So she finally makes it into your house and..... you blow her away..... oops, turns out she's a mom of 3 that just got carjacked with her kids still in the car...
Hmm..."If you come through that door, I am armed and I will shoot." It doesn't get much more clear. I will make every effort not to shoot, even explaining that I will if forced to. If she is the victim of some sort of event like this, what is barging into my home going to do?


Quote:
oh well, anyone banging and kicking on your door should just know that they're a threat, you can't take chances withe these things.
If I say that you are a threat, then you are. It is my home, my family, my safety that concerns me first. Again, if I tell you to back off, you damn well better do it.

Sorry, I didn't grow up in a generation where, by and large, society was full of good people. I am 25. My entire life has seen the scams and cheap tricks that 'people' pull on each other. I am a little more cavalier when alone, but if I am surrounded by my loved ones, I prefer to err on the side of caution and throw general concern for the whole of society out the window.
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