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Old June 21, 2009, 01:34 AM   #126
DougO83
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Ok...I simply step back from the vehicle and then throw as much body weight as I can into the door. Now we have a perp on the ground with a broken knee cap if he's lucky...
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Old June 21, 2009, 01:42 AM   #127
supergas452M
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Did I say these folks would murder the scumbag??? No, I did not. I guarantee you they would take appropriate actions which would NOT include hidng in their homes waiting for the police to show up. If you doubt that why don't you ask Gabe, Sonny, and others how they would handle this scenario. For that matter, get hold of Chuck Norris and ask him what he would do.

Go ahead email them with your scenario.

Last edited by Shane Tuttle; June 21, 2009 at 10:02 AM. Reason: Removal of inflammatory, personal attacks.
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Old June 21, 2009, 01:55 AM   #128
Trooper Tyree
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Go inside, start burn on CD, get boombox, retrieve freshly burned CD, go outside, plug in Boombox, plunk it down next to perp and start playing your freshly burned Britney Spears CD circa 1998 or so at earsplitting levels while dancing with an improvised miniskirt on. If that doesn't make him leave I think you're out of luck.

Seriously though, when you're dealing with crazy, you just have to make them think you're crazier.

That situation would never happen to me because of how my property is set up, fenced, dogs inside that are not friendly, but, since this is really just an exercise in thinking outside the box...

I have a Daisy BB pistol, chrome, can't tell it's not real at night. I'd walk up to the door opposite him, open door, toss it inside to the floorboard or seat beside him. Grunt "throwaway gun". Slam the door. Walk around to the other side, pull my piece and wait.

Note I'm not advocating throwaway guns or giving him a fake gun so you can shoot him. Not at all. We're just thinking outside the box.

What I am doing is guessing that someone cool enough to know that you can't shoot them for what they are doing, will know that the situation dynamics have changed dramatically now that they think I put a gun in the car with them. They will know that from the legal standpoint, you can shoot an armed robber. I'd expect them to get a whole lot more cooperative in a hurry.

They might ask to give themselves up, they might bolt and take off, or they might toss the gun out the window and tell you to quit interrupting them you're disturbing their concentration. If you have the right persona though, you could throw them off their game.

That's just thinking outside the box though. It would be better to not confront at all. I'd stay inside, maybe ban supergas for something to do, he's kind of annoying.

Last edited by Trooper Tyree; June 21, 2009 at 02:03 AM.
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Old June 21, 2009, 01:59 AM   #129
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The silence is deafening isn't it Tuttle? Wild?
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Old June 21, 2009, 02:12 AM   #130
DougO83
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supergas...if you have an issue, take it to PM. Do not sit around and attempt to incite flame wars. All that is going to do is get the thread locked. You are taking this way too seriously...it's teh interwebz...
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Old June 21, 2009, 02:53 AM   #131
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Pepper spray is cheap, and easy to find. Every gun owner should have a can for situations just like this. I keep a big can of it handy, and should I ever run into a situation like this, the robber will get sprayed.
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Old June 21, 2009, 04:44 AM   #132
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Well you could turn the garden hose on em and if he doesn't like it and comes out with a screw driver then shoot em.

Also I think here (La) technically you would be legal but still wouldn't look good on your part so much, you could jump in the car with him and then shoot him since he made forced entry. Though it would be hard to convince a jury its not bloodthirsty premeditated homicide since in this case you knew he was there.

La RS 14:20

(4)(a) When committed by a person lawfully inside a dwelling, a place of business, or a motor vehicle as defined in R.S. 32:1(40), against a person who is attempting to make an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, or who has made an unlawful entry into the dwelling, place of business, or motor vehicle, and the person committing the homicide reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the entry or to compel the intruder to leave the premises or motor vehicle.

No stipulation on you being in the vehicle when the entry is made.

http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=78338
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Old June 21, 2009, 06:44 AM   #133
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Thinking outside the box

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trooper Tyree
I have a Daisy BB pistol, chrome, can't tell it's not real at night. I'd walk up to the door opposite him, open door, toss it inside to the floorboard or seat beside him. Grunt "throwaway gun". Slam the door. Walk around to the other side, pull my piece and wait.

Note I'm not advocating throwaway guns or giving him a fake gun so you can shoot him. Not at all. We're just thinking outside the box.

What I am doing is guessing that someone cool enough to know that you can't shoot them for what they are doing, will know that the situation dynamics have changed dramatically now that they think I put a gun in the car with them. They will know that from the legal standpoint, you can shoot an armed robber. I'd expect them to get a whole lot more cooperative in a hurry.

They might ask to give themselves up, they might bolt and take off, or they might toss the gun out the window and tell you to quit interrupting them you're disturbing their concentration. If you have the right persona though, you could throw them off their game.
For a good ole Southern boy who's mama didn't raise him to be makin' guesses in front of Yankee Captains, that's pretty good thinking Tyree.

A little psy-ops to play with his mind. If he tosses the gun out the car you could always mutter "Good. Fingerprints." to keep him wondering.
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Old June 21, 2009, 06:52 AM   #134
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Quote:
If you doubt that why don't you ask Gabe, Sonny, and others how they would handle this scenario. For that matter, get hold of Chuck Norris and ask him what he would do.
*Sigh* - You miss the point Supergas.
I don't care if Gabe would use his ultra-tactical Akido wrist-grip to subdue the guy, or if Chuck Norris would beat the guy silly with a cream cheese dildo. The point of the exercise is to get YOU to think about alternative methods and tactics for dealing with someone who passively resists your orders, even at gunpoint. Once someone passively resists, the threat and/or use of your lethal force becomes legally questionable. So what can or will you do to stop him from committing a crime?
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Old June 21, 2009, 06:58 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedneckFur
Pepper spray is cheap, and easy to find. Every gun owner should have a can for situations just like this. I keep a big can of it handy, and should I ever run into a situation like this, the robber will get sprayed.
Absolutely. It's one place to start when his passive resistance negates the threat of your firearm. Depending on his position inside the car, you might spray some about his head & shoulders to see what kind of reaction that gets. If that's not possible due to body position, soaking the crotch area or the rear-end of his pants will probably take his mind off the theft business in less than 60 seconds.

And, as Dwight55 said, you could make a few $$ renting him your garden hose afterwards.

But like anything else, have some idea of a backup plan in case it turns out that he's not bothered by pepper spray.
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Old June 21, 2009, 07:07 AM   #136
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Quote:
I cannot shoot him without major problems for my self,,,but really these genes should not be passed along.

I always carry a knife besides my Kimber 45 Ultra. Feet sticking out of my car door, ...
Someone actually thinks using a knife is OK when a gun is not?

Time to get some training.
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Old June 21, 2009, 07:20 AM   #137
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Bill I see this thread is still alive today. Cudos!

My post yesterday which was a feeble attempt at comedy apparently started a flame war.(right before I went to play golf)

I've thought about this scenario some since yesterday. I guess the most sensible thing to do would be to get the video camera like someone suggested and film the guy.
If he is as self assured as he sounds in the description maybe he would tell you his name and where he lives. Even better, maybe you could get a closeup of his ID card.

It's just that I still have concerns for him or his friends return visits because:

1. Thanx to the wife he knows response time for the cops is 30 minutes.
2. In this neighborhood folks will watch you rob them while holding a gun on you.
3. And... they got really nice stuff such as GPS units and nice stereos in their
vehicles.
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Old June 21, 2009, 07:40 AM   #138
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Quote:
I know quite a few expert trainers that would not hesitate to go out there and take whatever measures necessary to take this low life off the steets. I would be very happy to refer them if you so desire. These people are not just "expert trainers" they are warriors. Kind of makes the "expert trainers" argument moot doesn't it?
Not at all. Ya missed the point.

What you say a "warrior" would do is moot--thought I doubt your claim.

The comment was that expert trainers advise against it.

Usually, the advice includes both legal aspects and tactical aspects.

Referring to Suarez, he says that combat is something to be avoided if you can. Not that anyone reasonable has yet advocated going outside for the purpose of entering into combat (illegal everywhere), but has he ever recommended that a single person not sworn to enforce the law go outside alone to deal with a perp in the dark?

Do LEOs do that in non-emergency situations? Where I live they always come in twos or threes.
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Old June 21, 2009, 10:16 AM   #139
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The silence is deafening isn't it Tuttle? Wild?
Yes, it is....when it's 2 a.m. Most people that work during the day usually are sawing logs at night. I'm no exception.

As the OP and OldMarksman stated: It isn't the point and Mr. Suarez wouldn't have advocated avoidance. Your source is invalid to the topic of discussion.

Taking the high road, I'm sure your schedule is different from mine and I patiently await for your response.
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Old June 21, 2009, 10:17 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillCA
"I don't care if Gabe would use his ultra-tactical Akido wrist-grip to subdue the guy, or if Chuck Norris would beat the guy silly with a cream cheese dildo."
Heh.
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Old June 21, 2009, 11:35 AM   #141
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This is what I would do:

Evidently the bad guy knows the laws that YOU have to live buy, otherwise he would have complied to your order to remove himself from the car.

However, I would keep the gun handy, As quickly as possible, ZIP TIE a rope to his ankle and tie the other end to the trailer hitch, then enter the drivers seat and tell him that we are going for a ride, I think his reaction would be PRICELESS.

DISCLAIMER: This SHOULD NOT be taken as advice, I was mearly attempting to inject some HUMOR into a senario that pretty much leaves you with your hands tied by any legal definition
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Old June 21, 2009, 12:18 PM   #142
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I still like the discharge of Tactical Spew...one could load up with grape juice for colour, polenta for texture and baby shrimp for that o gawd get them off, GETTHEMOFF response....

The get out the ropes and chains...

I'm going to the market today, my food choices and meal planning will be based to tactical applications versus nutrition and flavour..

Ken chan, why you eat pea and oreo soup with squid? Disgusting!

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Old June 21, 2009, 12:35 PM   #143
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You guys and gals best educate yourselves!

Quote:
I don't know about the laws where you live but here in Florida, I do believe you have the right to stop someone who is burglarizing your home/property.

Quote:
Also I think here (La) technically you would be legal but still wouldn't look good on your part so much, you could jump in the car with him and then shoot him since he made forced entry.

"Think?" "Technically?" What the hell are you guys talking about? I have seen several posts like this, and it horrifies me. If YOU OWN A GUN, YOU MUST, MUST, MUST, MUST ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY HAVE TO KNOW WHEN AND HOW IT CAN BE EMPLOYED IN YOUR STATE! If you don't know, sell your guns. If you don't know, you are a danger to yourself and your family as you might go to jail and leave them in the lurch. The Skydiver said he lives in Florida, and I can assure you that the CASTLE doctrine DOES NOT APPLY in this situation. In Florida, using a gun in this situation is going to get you in jail.

What you guys are saying is that you've read the laws, and in your states you believe that you would be justified. Are you willing to go to jail over "I think," and "technically?" Not me dude!

One other thing, when you guys and gals post with testosterone (I know, but gals produce testosterone too) fuelled bravado on this forum, understand one thing. If you ever are involved in a shooting that isn't absolutely righteous, everything you've ever posted will be blown up on the big display screen in front of a jury.

I don't always agree with WildAlaska, but be sure of one thing, you don't want to end up like the Pharmacist after a bad shoot. The difference in his case between heroism and jail is apparently one shot.

Sorry about the rant, I just had to get that off my chest.

BTW, TeeRoux, it looks like you are right, the LA law seems to justify you in this case, I wasn't attacking you particularly, I don't think you are the type of poster I am referring to.
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Old June 21, 2009, 12:37 PM   #144
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Since there can be some issues with "recoil" using spew... I prefer to prepare in advance and use exhaust fumes... Just last night I was testing a new formulation using egg salad samiches, grilled chicken salad with a raspberry vinagrette dressing and mangos topped off with several Ice House beers... Brought tears to my daughters eyes without direct dispersal. One of them let loose in the vehicle and slam door shut and I WIN!!!
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Old June 21, 2009, 12:47 PM   #145
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Quote:
mangos topped off with several Ice House beers
Dude thats covered under the NVA, I didnt know you had a tax stamp!

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Old June 21, 2009, 01:07 PM   #146
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dawg.

or pepperspray
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Old June 21, 2009, 01:12 PM   #147
jjyergler
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To my point.

Quote:
Brought tears to my daughters eyes without direct dispersal.
Not only is that probably a violation of the laws of the state of Florida, it is probably in violation of several international treaties and conventions. I'm not sure whom I should call, DCF or the UN.
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Old June 21, 2009, 02:09 PM   #148
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Quote:
egg salad samiches, grilled chicken salad with a raspberry vinagrette dressing and mangos topped off with several Ice House beers...
I don't think the car could be salvaged.
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Old June 21, 2009, 02:13 PM   #149
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And whatever you do, DON'T LIGHT ANY MATCHES

Can anyone say W.M.D.
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Old June 21, 2009, 02:38 PM   #150
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Quote:
I don't know about the laws where you live but here in Florida, I do believe you have the right to stop someone who is burglarizing your home/property.
I don't know how I missed this... maybe it was posted while MY eyes were watering.

But under no circumstances is it legal to use lethal force to stop a property only crime. If you are in the car and a thug tries to jack it from you, you can feel that the risk to your life was elevated to the point that lethal force is justified but you cannot walk up to your car to stop the theft of car or contents with lethal force.
If you are in the home and it is intruded upon you can use lethal force to protect your life or health not your property.
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