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Old June 19, 2009, 05:16 PM   #51
KLRANGL
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thats why there are so many thieves,people to cowered to take any action.
I'm pretty sure the lack of personal action is not the cause of an increase in theft... That's a "garbage cause flys" argument if I've ever heard one...

In a situation like this, you got to weigh the risks and the benefits. I have no problem with someone going out there and trying to stop the guy, but to me it just isn't worth it. I'll confront him, but if he just says go away and keeps going at it, I'll let him. Car radios are a dime a dozen anyway...
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Old June 19, 2009, 06:18 PM   #52
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Wow... lots of discussion about what you can't do -- which most of us know by now.
A few options ranging from urinating on him¹ to pepper spray to weed killer. Even dogs.² Most popular seems to be whacking him in the leg with a bat.

I've also noted that some people like to criticize the posts of others but never offer a solution either.

My friend used a non-lethal option that's often available in your average home.
I want to see if anyone thinks of it.

One friend I sent this to had the most creative solution.
Living in Nevada, his son has a nice collection of about 8 tarantulas³...


¹ Wild: It's probably best to open the driver's door so you can whiz in his ear.
² Attack Chihuahua anyone? Most effective up a pants leg.
³ Yeah... I'd come out of that car like a flippin' rocket too.
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Old June 19, 2009, 06:24 PM   #53
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My friend used a non-lethal option that's often available in your average home.
I want to see if anyone thinks of it.
Sigh...wait till hes distracted a bit, fill your hand full of Hot Sauce...rub in eyes...

Or shampoo....

Or Fire extinguisher

Then when he is rolling around on the ground, puke in his face. Then kick him in the oysters as hard as you can

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Old June 19, 2009, 06:28 PM   #54
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Trying to subdue or arrest him by force could lead to your losing the gun, which could be either bad or very, very, bad.

I wonder if it would be considered excessive force if some 250 pound force (me), while using persuasion and sweet reason, accidentally stumbled into the car door and broke the guy's legs. Of course the door would be damaged, but I would explain that I do have this problem with tight shoes, and...

Jim
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Old June 19, 2009, 06:36 PM   #55
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I'd be inclined to close the door on his leg and lean on it until the cops arrived (I'm 6'3", 245#), & have the wife hit the panic button on the alarm and call the neighbors to come help (I have good neighbors).

Gun would be last resort if the guy was a threat and coming at me. I would do what any "prudent man" would do - assume that someone coming at an armed man after being reapeatedly, loudly warned off - would try to take my weapon from me and use it on me, and I would respond "appropriately" . . .
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Old June 19, 2009, 06:47 PM   #56
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My friend used a non-lethal option that's often available in your average home.
I want to see if anyone thinks of it.
Oh the suspense!
Garden hose?
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Old June 19, 2009, 06:50 PM   #57
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Aerosol air freshener?
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Old June 19, 2009, 07:14 PM   #58
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Did your friend use a dirty diaper?
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Old June 19, 2009, 07:16 PM   #59
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Aerosol air freshener?
Ouch. I didnt say Oven Cleaner because that can cause permanent damage.

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Old June 19, 2009, 07:27 PM   #60
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From Florida statute 776.06
http://www.leg.state.fl.us/STATUTES/...776/ch0776.htm

Quote:
776.06 Deadly force.--

(1) The term "deadly force" means force that is likely to cause death or great bodily harm ...
Skydiver, if you will reread my first post, I expressed no opinion whatsoever on what the homeowner should do. I only pointed out that whacking the robber's knees with a baseball bat was every bit as legal - or as illegal - as shooting him right through the heart under the same circumstances. And I stand by that, even for those who live in Florida.

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Old June 19, 2009, 07:37 PM   #61
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Is there a standard legal definition of "great bodily harm"?

Certainly the home owner has every right to get physical with the BG. If you grab him by the leg and drag him out of the car he could hit his head on the ground, potentially under some circumstance, somewhere, a fatal injury. Is that "great bodily harm"?

Considering that virtually ANY action by the home owner could, under some conceivable circumstance prove fatal or severely injury the BG then it seems as if such a strict understanding of the term would render the home owner legally impotent. I mean, you could kick the guy in the leg and cause a blood clot that kills him. There has to be a reasonable continuum between standing there with a lemonade for the guy and shooting him in the face.
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Old June 19, 2009, 07:46 PM   #62
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peetzakilla,

It varies from state to state, but the commonlaw understanding of "great bodily harm" would include any disabling or crippling injury that lasts. A broken finger would probably not qualify; a broken skull probably would. (In my jurisdiction, a cop last year told me any broken bone would definitely qualify - but he was trying to scare the snot out of me when he said it, so I'm not sure that our local prosecutor's office would agree.)

It would be measured by the "reasonable" standard: what would an ordinary person reasonably expect to happen to him physically when you whacked the guy's knees with a baseball bat? ... when you shot him? ... when you dragged him out of the car? ... when you grabbed him by the scruff of his collar and shoved him up against the wall? ... when you pepper sprayed him? ... when you Tased him?

Of course there are always freak accidents, but a "reasonable" person would realistically expect serious injuries or even a fatality from some of those actions, and would realistically expect only temporary or transient injuries, or no injury at all, from the others.

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Old June 19, 2009, 08:17 PM   #63
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Att: PAX

Pax's quote: "I expressed no opinion on what the home owner should do"...

Of course you did PAX. That is exactly why I commented on your response to my comment. You enlightened us about the Florida statutes concerning what would happen if someone actually used a baseball bat on some sorry SOB (who is laughing at the man while stealing his radio). You compared using a bat on the thief as the same as shooting him through the heart!!
Puleeeeese..... Now let's see here: You can't use a gun on him, you can't use a bat on him, you can't use anything on him, (because it is excessive use of force, etc). You would not have posted it if you didn't feel that way about the situation. Of course, that is your right to express those beliefs and quote the statues (as to what we can and can't do)...... I respect your right to say it, I just don't happen to agree with you.

We are losing our individual rights as a free and law abiding citizens in this country. When you can't respond to a criminal who is committing a felony againist you, then where are we heading in the long run?

If that scum bag thief would have laughed at me (while stealing my radio from my car) I promise you, I would have taken care of business immediately. My baseball bat, would be very busy giving that low life a serious attitude adjustment. It's not a macho thing, but rather a principle thing. I just don't believe you can commit crimes like this and just walk away laughing at the victims. No way would I ever let that happen. I just wasn't raised that way. This guy is going down, one way or another. Hopefully the police can get there before it goes south, way down south............
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Old June 19, 2009, 08:47 PM   #64
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We are losing our individual rights as a free and law abiding citizens in this country. When you can't respond to a criminal who is committing a felony againist you, then where are we heading in the long run?
Losing our individual rights? Some years ago a law abiding citizen could not carry a weapon in Florida or where I live, and now we can.

Quote:
If that scum bag thief would have laughed at me (while stealing my radio from my car) I promise you, I would have taken care of business immediately. My baseball bat, would be very busy giving that low life a serious attitude adjustment. It's not a macho thing, but rather a principle thing. I just don't believe you can commit crimes like this and just walk away laughing at the victims. No way would I ever let that happen. I just wasn't raised that way. This guy is going down, one way or another. Hopefully the police can get there before it goes south, way down south............
Certainly an expeditious way to ensure the loss of individual rights and personal freedom by not abiding with the law.
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Old June 19, 2009, 09:07 PM   #65
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Well said Scott.
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Old June 19, 2009, 09:17 PM   #66
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Skydiver,

I'm sorry you do not like what the law says about use of force.

Again, I've expressed no personal opinion here - only told you what the law actually says. If you hate the law, work to change it. But I think you'll find most people agree that dead is dead (in the immortal words of Archie Bunker, "Wouldja rather they wuz pushed outta windows, little girl?") and maimed is maimed regardless of the instrument used to inflict the damage - so most folks are probably going to be happy to hear that the law makes no distinction between maiming someone with a baseball bat or maiming them with hobnail boots or maiming them with a golf club or maiming them with a firearm.

Me? I agree with Archie Bunker.

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Old June 19, 2009, 09:31 PM   #67
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Old Marksman and PAX:

What the hell are you suggesting, do nothing? Just call the police and sit there while the thief is robbing you blind (right in front of you)?

Your quote kills me Old Marksman: "Certainly an expeditious way to ensure the loss of individual rights and personal rights by not abiding by the law".... So someone can rob you and you can't do a damn thing about it but call the police? What about the guy coming back later and doing something worse to you next time? The way you explain it, you would probably help them load up the goods they are stealing from you. As of yet, I have not read one word about what you would do in this situation: All you keep saying is what will happen, if I do something to the poor thief...

I have to believe folks, that the law is on the side of the victims to some degree (and if its not, then we are in deep doo doo). I respect the law and I believe that the law is on our side. Victims have rights too and we just can't let the bad guys of the world abuse citizens and nothing is ever done about it. No way in my book would I let that happen, (that's just me).

I just would have to do something besides a phone call in this scenario. But I guess that is the difference between you and me. I don't ever want to start any trouble with anyone, but I will not be robbed (especially right in front of me) and do nothing about it. Sorry....but that is the way it is.

Last edited by skydiver3346; June 19, 2009 at 09:38 PM.
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Old June 19, 2009, 09:35 PM   #68
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Skydiver, Have you failed to be up to speed on what you are legally allowed to do? It is public info in florida and if it is not a "violent felony" you cannot detain or use force to stop the crime so you would be charged with crimes and some are a felony... Shredding the car is not in that description.
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Old June 19, 2009, 09:38 PM   #69
buck9
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Do not have a ccw.

I do not have a ccw so the gun is out. I would find a stick, many laying around my driveway. Yell hey honey let the dogs out. As my two 100 pound male Boxers came rushing out the door I would wave the stick and say get it boys and then toss it in the car.
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Old June 19, 2009, 09:45 PM   #70
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Now what?

Put away the gun. Replace it with a sledge hammer. Aim at the creep's ankles. Fire away.
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Old June 19, 2009, 09:50 PM   #71
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Hogdogs:

Wow hogdogs, I thought you might be a little tougher on the thief than that, (from your past threads).
At any rate, let me ask you, "what exactly would you do if you heard and saw someone stealing equipment from your vehicle and when you approached him, he just laughed at you and went on ripping your radio out"?? Just make a phone call, right?

I live pretty much out in the boonies and the police would take a long time to get to my home.
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Old June 19, 2009, 09:55 PM   #72
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Take the bag of trash up to your car, open top and dump it all over the guy.

Chances are he ain't gonna like the smell.
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Old June 19, 2009, 10:08 PM   #73
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I would later inform the officers that he got his face beat in when he exited my truck (cars are for city slickers) after I politely asked him to stop tearin up the truck and kindly leave my land. "officer, he then rushed out and approached with clenched fists and jist a cussin me, my wife and my momma! So I took him down..." Can't be lumpin' him up or shooting him as he lays across the car seat though!
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Old June 19, 2009, 10:11 PM   #74
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Hogs: Check this out

Okay, what if he is bigger and tougher than you and kicks your ass instead? Then what are you going to do?

From the original post, this perp laughed at the home owner even as the owner held a gun on him... Uh, I gotta believe this is one tough hombre and/or a nut job. Either way, you are going to get a butt whipping just fighting him (even if you win).
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Old June 19, 2009, 10:16 PM   #75
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Okay, what if he is bigger and tougher than you and kicks your ass instead? Then what are you going to do?
The only person tougher than the Hog is Spiff...

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