The Firing Line Forums

Go Back   The Firing Line Forums > The Conference Center > Law and Civil Rights

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old June 7, 2009, 07:38 PM   #1
Senator Vitaman
Member
 
Join Date: May 2, 2009
Posts: 37
National park firearm laws

What are they now? Where can I find a reliable source about this?
__________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U-dQfb8WQvo This is scary stuff, tell congress no cutting off care.
Senator Vitaman is offline  
Old June 8, 2009, 12:02 PM   #2
NavyLT
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2006
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
Posts: 1,719
BEWARE: Section (h) has a federal court injunction against it and is no longer valid.

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text....0.1.1.2.0.1.4

§ 2.4 Weapons, traps and nets.
top
(a)(1) Except as otherwise provided in this section and parts 7 (special regulations) and 13 (Alaska regulations), the following are prohibited:

(i) Possessing a weapon, trap or net

(ii) Carrying a weapon, trap or net

(iii) Using a weapon, trap or net

(2) Weapons, traps or nets may be carried, possessed or used:

(i) At designated times and locations in park areas where:

(A) The taking of wildlife is authorized by law in accordance with §2.2 of this chapter;

(B) The taking of fish is authorized by law in accordance with §2.3 of this part.

(ii) When used for target practice at designated times and at facilities or locations designed and constructed specifically for this purpose and designated pursuant to special regulations.

(iii) Within a residential dwelling. For purposes of this subparagraph only, the term “residential dwelling” means a fixed housing structure which is either the principal residence of its occupants, or is occupied on a regular and recurring basis by its occupants as an alternate residence or vacation home.

(3) Traps, nets and unloaded weapons may be possessed within a temporary lodging or mechanical mode of conveyance when such implements are rendered temporarily inoperable or are packed, cased or stored in a manner that will prevent their ready use.

(b) Carrying or possessing a loaded weapon in a motor vehicle, vessel or other mode of transportation is prohibited, except that carrying or possessing a loaded weapon in a vessel is allowed when such vessel is not being propelled by machinery and is used as a shooting platform in accordance with Federal and State law.

(c) The use of a weapon, trap or net in a manner that endangers persons or property is prohibited.

(d) The superintendent may issue a permit to carry or possess a weapon, trap or net under the following circumstances:

(1) When necessary to support research activities conducted in accordance with §2.5.

(2) To carry firearms for persons in charge of pack trains or saddle horses for emergency use.

(3) For employees, agents or cooperating officials in the performance of their official duties.

(4) To provide access to otherwise inaccessible lands or waters contiguous to a park area when other means of access are otherwise impracticable or impossible.

Violation of the terms and conditions of a permit issued pursuant to this paragraph is prohibited and may result in the suspension or revocation of the permit.

(e) Authorized Federal, State and local law enforcement officers may carry firearms in the performance of their official duties.

(f) The carrying or possessing of a weapon, trap or net in violation of applicable Federal and State laws is prohibited.

(g) The regulations contained in this section apply, regardless of land ownership, on all lands and waters within a park area that are under the legislative jurisdiction of the United States.

(h) Notwithstanding any other provision in this Chapter, a person may possess, carry, and transport concealed, loaded, and operable firearms within a national park area in accordance with the laws of the state in which the national park area, or that portion thereof, is located, except as otherwise prohibited by applicable Federal law.
NavyLT is offline  
Old June 8, 2009, 12:05 PM   #3
knight0334
Senior Member
 
Join Date: January 1, 2006
Location: Brookville, PA
Posts: 442
The bill allowing carrying in National Parks was signed into law. However it doesn't go into effect until early next year. Until then, NP's are off limits.
knight0334 is offline  
Old June 8, 2009, 12:09 PM   #4
NavyLT
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2006
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
Posts: 1,719
Public Law 111-24 will take effect February 22, 2010 which will enact the following law, but, for now, the above rule is still in effect WITHOUT the (h) provision.

http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/...qHSFUk:e87019:


SEC. 512. PROTECTING AMERICANS FROM VIOLENT CRIME.

(a) Congressional Findings- Congress finds the following:

(1) The Second Amendment to the Constitution provides that `the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed'.

(2) Section 2.4(a)(1) of title 36, Code of Federal Regulations, provides that `except as otherwise provided in this section and parts 7 (special regulations) and 13 (Alaska regulations), the following are prohibited: (i) Possessing a weapon, trap or net (ii) Carrying a weapon, trap or net (iii) Using a weapon, trap or net'.

(3) Section 27.42 of title 50, Code of Federal Regulations, provides that, except in special circumstances, citizens of the United States may not `possess, use, or transport firearms on national wildlife refuges' of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service.

(4) The regulations described in paragraphs (2) and (3) prevent individuals complying with Federal and State laws from exercising the second amendment rights of the individuals while at units of--

(A) the National Park System; and

(B) the National Wildlife Refuge System.

(5) The existence of different laws relating to the transportation and possession of firearms at different units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System entrapped law-abiding gun owners while at units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System.

(6) Although the Bush administration issued new regulations relating to the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens in units of the National Park System and National Wildlife Refuge System that went into effect on January 9, 2009--

(A) on March 19, 2009, the United States District Court for the District of Columbia granted a preliminary injunction with respect to the implementation and enforcement of the new regulations; and

(B) the new regulations--

(i) are under review by the administration; and

(ii) may be altered.

(7) Congress needs to weigh in on the new regulations to ensure that unelected bureaucrats and judges cannot again override the Second Amendment rights of law-abiding citizens on 83,600,000 acres of National Park System land and 90,790,000 acres of land under the jurisdiction of the United States Fish and Wildlife Service.

(8) The Federal laws should make it clear that the second amendment rights of an individual at a unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System should not be infringed.

(b) Protecting the Right of Individuals To Bear arms in Units of the National Park System and the National Wildlife Refuge System- The Secretary of the Interior shall not promulgate or enforce any regulation that prohibits an individual from possessing a firearm including an assembled or functional firearm in any unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System if--

(1) the individual is not otherwise prohibited by law from possessing the firearm; and

(2) the possession of the firearm is in compliance with the law of the State in which the unit of the National Park System or the National Wildlife Refuge System is located.

Last edited by NavyLT; June 8, 2009 at 12:14 PM.
NavyLT is offline  
Old June 13, 2009, 11:03 AM   #5
langenc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 19, 2007
Location: Montmorency Co, MI
Posts: 1,187
Even next year the visitor centers, restrooms and other bldgs will be a no-no.
langenc is offline  
Old June 13, 2009, 11:10 AM   #6
maestro pistolero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 16, 2007
Posts: 2,077
Quote:
Even next year the visitor centers, restrooms and other bldgs will be a no-no.
RESTROOMS? Do you have a source for this? Thanks
maestro pistolero is offline  
Old June 13, 2009, 11:45 AM   #7
NavyLT
Junior member
 
Join Date: January 25, 2006
Location: Oak Harbor, WA
Posts: 1,719
Quote:
Originally Posted by langenc
Even next year the visitor centers, restrooms and other bldgs will be a no-no.
Quote:
Originally Posted by maestro pistolero
RESTROOMS? Do you have a source for this? Thanks
The applicable law is 18 USC 930. The applicable portions are:
Quote:
§ 930. Possession of firearms and dangerous weapons in Federal facilities
(a) Except as provided in subsection (d), whoever knowingly possesses or causes to be present a firearm or other dangerous weapon in a Federal facility (other than a Federal court facility), or attempts to do so, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 1 year, or both.

(g) As used in this section:

(1) The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.

(2) The term “dangerous weapon” means a weapon, device, instrument, material, or substance, animate or inanimate, that is used for, or is readily capable of, causing death or serious bodily injury, except that such term does not include a pocket knife with a blade of less than 21/2 inches in length.

(3) The term “Federal court facility” means the courtroom, judges’ chambers,
witness rooms, jury deliberation rooms, attorney conference rooms, prisoner holding cells, offices of the court clerks, the United States attorney, and the United States marshal, probation and parole offices, and adjoining corridors of any court of the United States.

(h) Notice of the provisions of subsections (a) and (b) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal facility, and notice of subsection (e) shall be posted conspicuously at each public entrance to each Federal court facility, and no person shall be convicted of an offense under subsection (a) or (e) with respect to a Federal facility if such notice is not so posted at such facility, unless such person had actual notice of subsection (a) or (e), as the case may be.
Notice a couple of things.

1. (g)(1) requires Federal employees to be present regularly performing their official duties. I doubt very seriously that janitors cleaning the bathrooms in the National Park are actual Federal employees. It would more likely be a company contracted by the government, and the employees would be of the company, not the government. What matters, in that regards, is where that person's paycheck comes from - if it says US Treasury, they are a federal employee. If it says Joes Cleaning Service, they are an employee of Joes Cleaning Service, whether or not Joe has a contract with the government. Now, does a park ranger, using the facilities count as official duties?

2. (h) requires the facility to be posted. No posting=no prohibition. One cannot make an assumption of actual notification, it must be provided in such a way as to prove notification was received, for instance a pamphlet required to be given to every vehicle entering a park would be considered actual notification. But a statement such as, well he had to know it was a federal facility because it was a building in a National Park, is not actual notification.

I don't think restrooms will be off limits.
NavyLT is offline  
Old June 17, 2009, 08:01 PM   #8
langenc
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 19, 2007
Location: Montmorency Co, MI
Posts: 1,187
Many restrooms Ive been to are right in the visitor centers.
langenc is offline  
Old June 17, 2009, 08:09 PM   #9
maestro pistolero
Senior Member
 
Join Date: August 16, 2007
Posts: 2,077
It is my understanding that the new law replaces the previous restrictions with the prevailing CCW law of the State that the park is in.

Quote:
The term “Federal facility” means a building or part thereof owned or leased by the Federal Government, where Federal employees are regularly present for the purpose of performing their official duties.
Or shall we say doodies?
maestro pistolero is offline  
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
This site and contents, including all posts, Copyright © 1998-2014 S.W.A.T. Magazine
Copyright Complaints: Please direct DMCA Takedown Notices to the registered agent: thefiringline.com
Contact Us
Page generated in 0.08750 seconds with 7 queries