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Old August 30, 1999, 08:56 AM   #1
Stoic
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Legality of a Removeable Rifle Stock on a Pistol?

Legality of a Removeable Rifle Stock on a Pistol? Does anyone know the answer to this question?
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Old August 30, 1999, 09:47 AM   #2
John Lawson
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Actually, it depends on the pistol; if it is pre-1898 or whether the ATF has declared it to be a curio or relic and whether the stock is of the original style.
For instance, you may posess an original rounded stock for a Navy Luger, but you can't have the flat board "artillery" stock with it. You should keep the components cased together. Nothing in the law says you can shoot the gun with the stock attached, however. The ATF will send you a list of pistols and revolvers you can posess stocks for.
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Old August 30, 1999, 12:11 PM   #3
Jeff OTMG
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You will need to check the laws in your state to make certain that there are no further restrictions. Under federal law you may add a removable or fixed stock to any handgun, you may use a folding or collapsable stock on a non-semiautomatic pistol, like a revolver, by completeing the paperwork, paying $200 for a NFA tax stamp, and having the firearm registered as a short barrelled rifle, or SBR. You may not add the collapsable or folding stock to a semiautomatic pistol as that you put you in violation of 922(v), manufacturing a semiautomatic assault weapon, and yes it does apply to SBR and SBS.
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Old August 30, 1999, 01:53 PM   #4
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Thanks for the replies. Stoic.
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Old August 30, 1999, 04:32 PM   #5
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Hi Folks,

OTMG, I am not sure where you get the idea that attaching a shoulder stock to a pistol (like the Luger) is manufacturing an assault rifle. (It is, of course, a short barrel rifle.) An assault rifle is defined as having (among other things) a folding or collapsible stock; a detachable pistol stock is not mentioned because it is covered elsewhere. I think that combination could only be an assault rifle if the pistol also had two other "bad" features.

FYI, I am reading from Title 18, USC, so if I am wrong, would appreciate your citing the section.

In other words, I don't think there is a difference between a shoulder stocked revolver or single shot, and a shoulder stocked (ordinary) pistol.

Jim
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Old August 30, 1999, 04:37 PM   #6
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Please permit a couple of other comments.

If the combination is either registered as a short barrel rifle or has been removed from the purview of the act in one way or another, there is no reason in the world you cannot shoot it (other than needing high quality ear protection). (You can shoot an illegal gun, too, but it does tend to call attention to yourself.)

If you want to buy a stock and a pistol and put them together legally, buy the gun, then apply for and obtain the tax stamp BEFORE acquiring the stock.

Jim

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Old August 30, 1999, 11:37 PM   #7
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Jim, no, attaching a fixed or detachable stock to a semiautomatic pistol is a SBR. To attach a folding or collapsable stock to a semiauto take you to two qualifying 'evil' features, the pistol grip and the folding stock. Not really going to use a Luger because I think using an original stock on it still allows it to qualify for C&R classification. To qualify to be a semiauto AW: if it is of foreign manufacture (semiauto w/ detachable magazine) it is allowed ZERO evil features, for domestic manufacture there is only one evil feature allowed. You don't have to have the folding stock, pistol grip, flash hider, bayonet lug, threaded muzzle, and grenade launcher to qualify, two will do it. So there is no way to attach one of those side folding stocks that replace the grip panel on a Ruger Mk II .22 pistol because although it qualifies as a SBR, the pistol grip and folding stock qualify it as a SAAW as well. If you attach a folder to a revolver then you do not go into the test criteria of an SAAW. Same as if you put a collapsable stock on an AR-15 with an 11' barrel IF the magazine has been welded in place OR it is manually operated. That would be a SBR but would not qualify for the test of SAAW.
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Old August 31, 1999, 11:04 AM   #8
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Rather than relying on faulty memory and endless speculation, you can call the ATF in D. C. and ask for a clarification. They take into account Statutory Law (the way it was) case law, or judicial rulings and ATF rulings. You will find that the Navy Luger is classified as a curio/relic with shoulder stock ONLY if it is cased with accessories in a permanent gun collection. Remove it from the collection and it becomes a class 4 weapon. Only 30 some states allow these. This is also true for the H&R line throwing gun (12 ga with 10" barrel. You must case it with a complete set of weights, canot remove it w/o class 4 status taking over. Sorry, it isn't an assault rifle, its a machine gun.
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Old August 31, 1999, 08:15 PM   #9
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You need to be very carefull about adding a stock to any handgun, for fear you may create a short barreled rifle. The Thompson contender, for example, is a single shot pistol. This is truly a sporting weapon and no reasonable person could argue that such a weapon could be deamed an assult weapon. However a person could concievably purchase the optional stock for the weapon (which is designed to be used with 16 inch barrels) and then attatch a shorter 8 inch barrel. In doing so, he would have assembled an illegal weapon with a fixed stock and a barrel of less than 16 inches, at least that is my understanding. Be aware that you need to meet both federal AND state guidelines... and every state law is different. Good luck. If you have an attorney friend locally, you should have him do a bit of research on your state laws.
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Old June 1, 2009, 11:51 AM   #10
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Non-attachable Shoulder Stock

I would be interested in comments on the legality of a non-attachable shoulder stock. I have such a device. It's a wire stock, the end of which is curved to conform to the rear strap of a Ruger Mk II. The gripping hand is placed through the stock, holding the stock firmly against the rear strap. I suppose one could more accurately describe this as a "steady rest" rather than a "stock", as it is immediately separated from the pistol when one releases their grip on the butt.
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Old June 1, 2009, 03:53 PM   #11
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Hmmm.. I have never given it any thought but I didn't realize there were legal issues. So, let's say I had a Ruger Blackhawk with a 7.5" or 10.5" barrel. If I were to somehow fashion a device which clamped onto the regular hand grips that allowed me to have the device pressed up against my shoulder, I might have violated a law? I think I remember seeing some similar device in an old Clint Eastwood western.
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Old June 1, 2009, 06:00 PM   #12
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Quote:
If I were to somehow fashion a device which clamped onto the regular hand grips that allowed me to have the device pressed up against my shoulder, I might have violated a law?
You would be committing a federal felony the moment you attached it
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Old June 1, 2009, 07:31 PM   #13
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Legality of a Removeable Rifle Stock on a Pistol?

Please remember that I said this pistol stock is "on-attachable", as in it does not clamp onto, grip, or screw onto any part of the pistol. Rather, it is held to the pistol only by the shooters gripping hand.
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Old June 1, 2009, 07:38 PM   #14
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robhof

As said above; Curios and relics are exempt from the laws. On a similiar note The Sportsmans guide occasionally sells kits for the 1911, consisting of a stock and a 15" barrel with capitalized warning that both the barrel and stock must be on the gun to be legal.
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Old June 1, 2009, 08:28 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by SRMA63
Please remember that I said this pistol stock is "on-attachable", as in it does not clamp onto, grip, or screw onto any part of the pistol. Rather, it is held to the pistol only by the shooters gripping hand.
Yeah, I read that the first time.

Let me throw a question back at you: Is "gripping" a shoulder stock that "does not clamp onto, grip, or screw onto any part of the pistol" something you want your lawyer to explain to a judge? Does it do something special for you that is worth risking time in Club Fed?

What are the odds?

What are the stakes?

How much is a tax stamp?

These are questions only you can answer...
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Old June 1, 2009, 08:46 PM   #16
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There used to be such a gadget made and advertised in the 1970s. The maker and such customers as they then had thought it was legal.

BUT: As Tamara said, there is so much more stuff to keep abreast of, using one now might get you the opportunity to pay a lawyer to explain the difference in Federal court. He might get it right, he might not.
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Old June 2, 2009, 02:45 PM   #17
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I think it should be said again in very simple terms:

You can not attach any type of stock or vertical foregrip to a pistol in the United States.
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Old June 2, 2009, 04:14 PM   #18
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As said above; Curios and relics are exempt from the laws. On a similiar note The Sportsmans guide occasionally sells kits for the 1911, consisting of a stock and a 15" barrel with capitalized warning that both the barrel and stock must be on the gun to be legal.
So...what is it if only the barrel is attached?
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Old June 2, 2009, 04:54 PM   #19
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So...what is it if only the barrel is attached?
Stupid. A .45 with a 16" (not 15" that would be a SBR with the stock in that add) barrel is just stupid.

AroundLSU said it best. Please everyone reread that post, write it down, memorize it.

Last edited by Willie Lowman; June 2, 2009 at 04:57 PM. Reason: Stop and check if you are breaking Federal laws.
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Old June 3, 2009, 02:29 AM   #20
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Stupid. A .45 with a 16" (not 15" that would be a SBR with the stock in that add) barrel is just stupid.
But is it legal? The language of the ad seems to imply that it isn't without the stock.
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Old June 3, 2009, 10:10 AM   #21
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Yes it would be legal with out the stock. Old G.O. from sportsman's guide can't be bothered to explain the ins and outs of creating a SBR. It is easier and safer legally for G.O. to let you think you have to use that stock and barrel together... Like I said, you can use just the long barrel but that would be stupid. (I wonder if the gun would cycle correctly.)

The barrel length isn't an issue without the stock. Follow me?
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Old June 8, 2009, 08:16 PM   #22
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To add to this the local range/gun shot recently let me play with an Ingram. It was so rediculous. You can't shoot from the hip with anything like a hope of accuracy. I was working with holding it like a pistol I could just feel how it was going to be all out of balance. I commented this to them "Yeah it looks cool but I'd have to attached a stock to make it work. The laughed and said yeah, but that would make it illegal.
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Old June 10, 2009, 10:44 AM   #23
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aroundlsu: I think it should be said again in very simple terms:

You can not attach any type of stock or vertical foregrip to a pistol in the United States.
This is simply not true.

All you have to do is pay a $200 tax and fill out a form for SBR.

ATF regulations CLEARLY allow certain Lugers, Mausers and Browning Hi Powers to have an attached stock WITHOUT the owner having a tax stamp.
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Old June 10, 2009, 04:21 PM   #24
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This is simply not true.

All you have to do is pay a $200 tax and fill out a form for SBR.

ATF regulations CLEARLY allow certain Lugers, Mausers and Browning Hi Powers to have an attached stock WITHOUT the owner having a tax stamp.
If you pay a $200 tax for the SBR it's no longer a pistol and my comment is still accurate.

The OP and others reading this thread are not interested in attaching a stock to a very specific model relic gun. They want to attach stocks to their Glock and other modern automatics. So I felt it was important to clearly state that you simply can't do it rather than continue to bog down the thread with NFA regulations and perhaps give some kid the idea that maybe he can attach the stock to his Glock.
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Old June 15, 2009, 11:25 PM   #25
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aroundlsu
Quote:
Quote:
This is simply not true.

All you have to do is pay a $200 tax and fill out a form for SBR.

ATF regulations CLEARLY allow certain Lugers, Mausers and Browning Hi Powers to have an attached stock WITHOUT the owner having a tax stamp.

If you pay a $200 tax for the SBR it's no longer a pistol and my comment is still accurate.
The OP and others reading this thread are not interested in attaching a stock to a very specific model relic gun. They want to attach stocks to their Glock and other modern automatics. So I felt it was important to clearly state that you simply can't do it rather than continue to bog down the thread with NFA regulations and perhaps give some kid the idea that maybe he can attach the stock to his Glock.
Wrong again.

With the stock attached it requires a tax stamp. Without the stock attached it is still a handgun and requires no tax stamp.

What you cannot comprehend is that the rules for attaching a stock to a Glock are the same as with any other handgun. IT CAN BE DONE LEGALLY, AND IS DONE ALL THE TIME. As I stated before, you pay a tax, you can attach a stock.

It is interesting that you believe regulations "bog down" this thread. Ignorance of those regulations will send you to jail.










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